lymans 45/70 1878 . sharpe deer loads

[ozygreg]

This is my first 45/70 .I load 223+ 6.5x55 both perfect loads . I will have the 45/70 7th November , then i will start to develop a deer load to 300. I am looking for a starting load . if you have one. I hunt for meat only . not targets or a trophy hunter ,
I am looking for a load that is as flat as possible . to 300 . best at 200 , . are the 325 hornady any good , I only know what I have read. No real experience as yet , my mate is good at load development he said he will help . but a good start from someone will be greatfull . . we can hunt deer all year round , at the moment i get 1 a week for meat . best meat is fallow ,
thank you ozygreg

[M. M. Wright]

Good morning from Indian Territory.
From my trap-door Springfield: 45-70, CCI primer, 26 Grains of 5744, 300 cast bullet.

Speer 400 Grain JSP, 46 Grains of 5744, (Accurate Arms XMP 5744)
For a black powder load:
300 gas checked cast sized .459 and lubed with SPG. 60 grains Goex ffg, Magnum rifle primer, I use an 1/8th" over powder wad by Circle Fly and compress about 1/8th inch. My rolling block likes this one. For it I don't resize, just change primers and compress the powder under the wad. Then hand seat the bullet. Works OK in the single shots.

You can see I don't shoot a lot of heavy bullets but you certainly can, I just don't like the punishment. I have a Browning 86 carbine that I like to hunt with and load it quite a lot heavier with XMP 5744 but I stick to the 300 grain bullet.

[Pisgah]

"Flat" will never accurately describe any .45-70 load. Your key will be working up the most accurate load you can, then learning that load's trajectory by heart and either using a rangefinder or getting very good at range estimation. The latter is where I find most shooters, regardless of the caliber they are shooting, fall far short. I once amazed a group of four friends who witnessed me shoot a buck at what they variously estimated at 450 to 550 yards. I told them as I set up for the shot that it was 225, tops, and they scoffed -- until after the shot we took a 100' tape and actually measured it at 223.

[Griff]

My load for my 1886 Browning Rifle is a 325 grain cast bullet over 36 grains of AA5744XMP in Remington cases with a WLR primer. I've never had it chronographed, but according to reloading manuals I can expect about 1650fps at the muzzle. This will yield an arc similar to:

As you can see, with a 250 yard "zero", I'm approximately 15" above the line of sight between 125 & 150 yards and... over 17" below the line of sight @ 300 yards! As Pisgah points out, there's "flat" and then there's flat! Range guesstimation becomes critical.

And, at 1650 fps you'll need a hard cast bullet with good lube, or you could choose a jacketed round, but you're still quite limited in speed due to pressure limits of the cartridge and rifle. Not to mention how you handle recoil! And, at range, bullet stabilization enters the picture. Depending on the twist rate in your rifle, you may be limited on what weight bullets at what speeds they will stabilize enough to have great accuracy. If your twist rate is fast, (say 1:15), it'll want heavy bullets shot slow, a slower twist will allow lighter bullets to be shot faster for best accuracy. I'll admit, you can get lucky and get a load that performs well, right from the get go... but plan on doing a lot of experimenting... darn near half the fun of having one of these old buffalo rifles!

I ain't trying to talk you out of anything, but prepare you for certain facts. I have an 1874 Sharps, and can tell you that standard barrel sights will probably not get you to 300 yards. Certainly not to 400. You'll need to upgrade the sights to a ladder type sight, either on the barrel or a tang peep on a venier. Knowing that going in, I deleted the rear sight on my rifle when I ordered it, and went straight to a tang peep. Recently, I found my sight lacked enough height to get to 1,000 yards, so had to upgrade again. Now I have enough sight, but no place with enough range to begin to learn the sight.

[Daisyman]

"Flat" will never accurately describe any .45-70 load. Your key will be working up the most accurate load you can, then learning that load's trajectory by heart and either using a rangefinder or getting very good at range estimation. The latter is where I find most shooters, regardless of the caliber they are shooting, fall far short. I once amazed a group of four friends who witnessed me shoot a buck at what they variously estimated at 450 to 550 yards. I told them as I set up for the shot that it was 225, tops, and they scoffed -- until after the shot we took a 100' tape and actually measured it at 223.

I agree wholeheartedly. Not very many people can guess distance, including me, over various terrains, unless they've spent a lot of time in the field and then actually MEASURED their shots. I think most of them get stretched a bit. Kinda like those 10" fish that are 16" when they're told about at the coffee shop!

[Les Staley]

I load 28 gr 5744 behind a 422 gr flat point from a RCBS mold cast of clip on wheel weight with a copper gas check bullet. I lube with 50/50 liquid alox and Johnson's liquid floor wax. Sized to .457 in a lee push thru sizing die that goes in your reloading press. Shilo Sharps Hartford model with the tang peep sight set for 200 yds and the fold down rear barrel sight set for 100 yds. Will group 10 shots around 2" at 100 and around 5" at 200. Does what I want it to.

[jmiller]

"Flat" will never accurately describe any .45-70 load. Your key will be working up the most accurate load you can, then learning that load's trajectory by heart and either using a rangefinder or getting very good at range estimation. The latter is where I find most shooters, regardless of the caliber they are shooting, fall far short. I once amazed a group of four friends who witnessed me shoot a buck at what they variously estimated at 450 to 550 yards. I told them as I set up for the shot that it was 225, tops, and they scoffed -- until after the shot we took a 100' tape and actually measured it at 223.

Well said. It's no varmit gun. People do tend to grossly over estimate distances. If you want to be assured of hitting a deer every time at 300 yards, you'll need a flat shooting rifle and a good rest.....plus plenty of practice. I'd start with something other than a 45-70. I've got three of them and shoot them quite a bit. I don't hold out a lot of expectations on killing a deer at those "estimated" ranges since the thing is like lobbing a mortor.