32 win spl vs 30-30

[rjohns94]

I know, I know, this has been done before and will be done again but I need to get this straight in my mind. I think they were developed as sister cartridges, with the 32 being designed as BP/smokeless, and the 30-30 being designed for Smokeless. They are the same case case I think, the 32 being a necked up 30-30. I think the 30-30 has a 1 in 12 rifling, the 32 a 1-18???? Energy about the same. Any reason not to buy a near perfect 32? (from my birth year even!)

What say you 32 owners? those that have walked away from 32's for other calibers, those that sing the praise of 30-30's?

thanks

[Sixgun]

Mike,
The 32 Spl has a 1-16 twist and according to John Barness of Rifle Magazine was not invented to be reloaded or loaded with BP. Its just another 32 round that can be loaded hotter than the old 32-40.

I have shot a mess of them over the years and one thing I have found is that the "old wives tale" of "if a 32 has a bad barrel, they will not hit a washtub at 50 yards" is true. A 30-30 will continue to shoot decent with a bad bore but 32 Spls. I have had will not. In fact, I just had one relined with a 1-14 twist and is now a tackdriver.

As for power, they are the same. I make my 32 Spl. brass from 30-30's.

So.........snag that 32 Spl. that was made the year you were made, you old ????? (I gotta be nice, Hobies here )

The old '94 post war carbines are going the way of the Model 71. Climbin' fast--------------------Sixgun

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have two 32sp. Win 94`s at this time and a new barrel to build one on the Marlin 336 action.
What Sixgun said + 1 .
Not everyone took to the 30-30 right off. There was quite a few people who still wanted a larger bore and there were thousands of .32 molds already in peoples hands. I dont buy the BP theory either.
The .32-40 was still available when the .32 sp. came out although it cost more than the special.

[BenT]

If your shooting 170 grain bullets . The 32 special and 30-30 are ballistcally the same. I like mine. If you like the gun buy it.

[rjohns94]

if not BP designed, why the rifling choice?

[Sixgun]

if not BP designed, why the rifling choice?

Good question Mike. I believe Winchester was keeping things simple as the 32-40 was always rifled with a 1-16 twist and both the 32-40 and 32 Spl. use the same groove diameter. So, I'm guessing Winchester could use the same barrel blanks and machinery to make both calibers.

I have done a lot of long range shooting (the true test) with the 32 Spl. and with a nice smooth bore will shoot excellent out to 300 meters so I (again) guess the 1-16 twist is fine.---------Sixgun

[Jarhead]

Mike,

I can see why you want her...saw you are bidding for her on Gunbrokers.
Looks like a good one indeed....don't worry, I won't give up your age
I've been looking at some Trails End Winchester Model 94s...I won't bid agains't you

[mod71alaska]

I need to get this straight in my mind. I think they were developed as sister cartridges....

What say you 32 owners?

thanks

Mike,

You want us to pick between sisters, one sister over the other??? NO WAY!!! You have to have and love BOTH calibers, my friend, so you can respond as the 30WCF / 32WS spirit moves you. Yes, it's absolutely a spiritual thing!!!

Here are the 30-30 / 32WS Winchester "sisters" that move my Spirit:

Model 94 carbines in 30-30 (30WCF) and 32 WS:
(The 32WS top front and prewar 30WCF in the middle standing now belong to other Levergunners here!)


The Winchester Model 64 rifle pairs in 30WCF and 32WS that move my spirit:


Picking between the 30WCF and 32WS calibers is too difficult a choice!!!

[rjohns94]

Jack,
I think that is the reason. Since Winchester knew the 32-40 was a dieing cartridge, especially with the introduction of the 30-30, they probably had a lot of 32-40 barrels left. I just read an original article on the 32 and though they touted it as "more powerful" alternative, they probably invented the 32 spl just to get rid of the 32-40 blanks - Go figure. I think I am going to go with 32 just because of the condition and the year of manufacuture. I hear they shoot well with cast bullets, especially because of the slower twist. Should be alot of fun. I doubt I will shoot the barrle out. The rifle is near perfect!

thanks

[rjohns94]

WOW Victor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a beautiful collection.

[rjohns94]

Jarhead:

Not much surprise to my age. 50 this year. If I win the auction, I have my early B-day present!! She is a beaut.

[Sixgun]

Model 71 Alaska-------Thats some fine looking long forend carbines and 64's you have there. I see you buy with "condition". ------Sixgun ------------- I gotta laugh though, as collecting these Winchesters sure is a disease and you got it bad--no cure for you

[Jarhead]

Jarhead:

Not much surprise to my age. 50 this year. If I win the auction, I have my early B-day present!! She is a beaut.

I agree...very nice indeed...a great Birthday gift to yourself. I bid on the Trails End 25-35 but did not meet the reserve. I just bought another Model 71(about a month ago), and paid a pretty penny for her, but that 25-35 up for auction really looks nice too! Like the 45LC too! I think I'll just hang tuff for now... LEVER-ITIS

[rangerider7]

mod71alaska, you need to pay more attention to condition!!! WOW!!!!

[Ysabel Kid]

Victor -

Those pictures just make me smile! What a stunning collection!!!

[Leverdude]

Nice collection there Mod71!

I know I read in period literature that they used a slower twist in the 32 to facilitate reloading with black. Dont recall where but I think it was a gun manufacturer. I just acquired a couple old Marlin catalogs from 1904 & 06 & they brag the 32 as being far superior to a 30/30.
They used advertisement hype & gimmicks 100 years ago too.

Anyway, if actual data is any indicator its a .321 30/30.

But I still want one. Need one actually, theres a hole between my 30/30 & my 35.

[homefront]

P.O. Ackley preferred the .32.

[victor]

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

here's an interesting article.

Vic

[Charles]

My thoughts on the 32 W.S. vs. the 30 WCF.

1) Althought it is often debated and I tend to buy into the notion that one purpose of the 32 WS was to be black powder compatable. Note, I did not say "the" purpose, but "one" purpose.

2) All things being equal (pressure) the 32 WS is more gun that the 30-30. They are not ballistic twins.

3) The 1-16 barrel allows the use of cast bullets at top end pressures/velocity with Crackerjack accuracy. This alone is enough reason to own a 32 WS.

4) I have a number of 30-30s and would not want to be without one, but if I could only have one rifle in either 30-30 or 32WS, I would go with the 32.

[Modoc ED]

Here is a picture of the original poster that Winchester used to introduce the Winchester .32 Special.


EDIT: It is in jpg/jpeg format so take a copy and save it to your Winchester file in your computer.

[w30wcf]

Modoc Ed,
Thank you for the illustration! Neat piece of history!

Here's a thread with more info on the .32 W.S.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/sho ... hp?t=26928

Personally, I like the .30-30 a bit better because the faster twist will stabilize bullets that are 200 + grs. in weigh which I use for more accurate long distance shooting.

w30wcf

[t.r.]

Years ago, my Dad calibrated machinery on the construction site of new power plant at Guernsey, Wyoming. A crew from Minnesota hung the steel. One of the guys shot a heavy bodied bull just north of town with his 32 Special. The guy was a careful hunter. My Dad was impressed with this skilled ironworker and outstanding woodsman.

TR

[morgan in nm]

Its kinda sad now but for years, I have heard nothing but bad things about the 32ws. People have told me years ago that the 32ws is a weak, innacurate, and expensive clone of the 30wcf. Because of that, I have turned down several of them for cheap. But, my father bought a SRC made in 1911 in 32ws and we went out and shot it. Every rumor that I have heard about the caliber was wrong IMO. If fact, I liked his so much that I went and found one locally and it shoots like a dream.(one day I will post a picture of her) I still love the 30wcf and own close to 20 94's in that caliber(not the quality of Mod71's collection WOW ) but older ranch guns.

I am going to start casting for the 32ws as soon as I find a mold-THANKS GUYS

[Charles]

Morgan... There is not an abundance of molds for the 32 WS..but as luck would have it the RCBS 170 FN is an excellent one and you would need no other.

[cshold]

Hey Mike,

Are you sure about this?
I kind of figured you for the 38-55 win. next.
(Black powder and heavy cast bullets )

[Old Time Hunter]

What is really great about the .32 Win Spl you can use the bullets when loading for your 8mm Mauser! Seriously, the .321/.323 bullet diameter was considered at one time to be the "best" small caliber diameter.

[Sixgun]

Here is a picture of the original poster that Winchester used to introduce the Winchester .32 Special.


EDIT: It is in jpg/jpeg format so take a copy and save it to your Winchester file in your computer.

Thank you ever so much for that picture. It clears up a lot of controversy. Somehow, we have to get that picture to Rifle magazine. Thanks a bunch. Tell me, is it a pic you have or did you find it on the net?-------Sixgun

[rjohns94]

Mike,

The 38-55 is a kewl caliber. I will leave my BP shooting for the single shots. I just don't want to shoot BP in the lever actions. The 45-90 arrived today and its gonna be hard put this one down during the hunting season, its a beaut. Can't wait to ring it out this am.

mike

[Modoc ED]

Thank you ever so much for that picture. It clears up a lot of controversy. Somehow, we have to get that picture to Rifle magazine. Thanks a bunch. Tell me, is it a pic you have or did you find it on the net?-------Sixgun

I got that picture from one of the "Old Timers" out at our range. He loaned it to me and I scanned it into my computer. I had seen that picture before on the internet but can't remember where. I said, "poster" but actually it is/was and insert for one of Winchester's catalogs and is the same size as a catalog of that time.

You are correct when you say that it should clear up a lot of controversy. I'm still amazed at the controversy that continues over this round as this picture and other printed information from Winchester states exactly why they brought out the .32 Winchester Special.

If you want to get that to Rifle Magazine, I see no reason why you couldn't e-mail it to them.

[Jaguarundi]

Modoc ED-thanks for posting that poster and hopefully settle the question. !

[Dakota7]

Here is a picture of a 32 WS built the second year of production (1903) still shoots great, shot a deer with it this past fall. The rifle has been in the family since new. I shoot it in a match once in awhile.



This my other 32 WS that gets shot in a lot of matchs, it even lets me win, place or show once in awhile if I do my part.



Nothing against the 30 WCF, I like them too. The RCBS mould 170 with a gas check is general the bullet that I use in the 32.