1956 Winchester 94, 2" group, fell out of my chair!

[cpy911]

Took the Winchester 94, 30-30 with my handloads (Medium charge of IMR 3031, 150gr RNFP G/C, random brass and CCI primer) to basically plink around. I was sighting it in at 100 yards and when I checked my spotter scope, lo and behold I got a 2" group! I was shocked as I was not really trying. The gun is kind of a beater with decent barrel. It has a williams FP peep sight. I was using home made sand bag rests. Like I said I was not trying, not breathing or being too careful when shooting, sheesh...

Is this normal? I thought these were inaccurate guns! Ha, ha!

Be wary of getting into a gun fight with a determined man with a lever gun!!! I am just a joe bob shooter and can't believe it.

[Streetstar]

You should try to send it back to Winchester --- everybody knows these guns are .25 MOA operators out of the box!

[cpy911]

No Winchester to send it back to, could try Browning or Winchester Japan I suppose.
Seriously, I thought these were 3-4 MOA guns.

You should try to send it back to Winchester --- everybody knows these guns are .25 MOA operators out of the box!

[AJMD429]

1. Some leverguns just ARE accurate.
2. Many can be MADE accurate (threads on this forum and in the mother-site)
3. I tend to shoot best when 'not really trying' (go figure)

I think ONE reason leverguns aren't given credit for accuracy is that they generally come with CRAPPY 'factory open sights'; put those sights on a bull-barreled bolt-action 6mm PPC, and groups would probably still suck. On the other hand, mount a 40x scope on a levergun and shoot it off a rest, before you decide it isn't accurate - it may surprise you! Many times it will shoot VERY well, so then you have to decide if you want to scope it at all (probably won't leave a 40x on it, but if it shoots 0.3" groups at 100 yards I would consider it), or if you want to put a really good aperture sight on it, or whatever - but at least you will know its potential, and know that if you miss it is either your fault for bad shooting, or your fault for putting crummy sights on it instead of good ones or a scope, but not the gun's fault.

But without really eliminating the 'crappy sight' factor, you can NEVER tell how good a particular gun is capable of shooting, whether lever, bolt, or whatever. Unfortunately, because the 'tube magazine' does complicate stresses as the barrel heats, many leverguns do string as they heat up (but will place the FIRST shot very consistently), and even the ones that don't string shots suffer from the 'crappy sight syndrome' and most folks don't bother to try better sights. On the other hand, many bolt-action guns don't even have sights, so everybody always scopes them, and their groups are probably smaller than they'd be if those same guns came with crappy open sights.

[Pete44ru]

.

Well, Joe-Bob ( ) - I'd say you gotcherself sum pur-dee game-getter, right there !

What 'er yer plans fer her ?




.

[Streetstar]

No Winchester to send it back to, could try Browning or Winchester Japan I suppose.
Seriously, I thought these were 3-4 MOA guns.

You should try to send it back to Winchester --- everybody knows these guns are .25 MOA operators out of the box!

I was just funnin' - why I put the smiley face at the end --- that actually sounds like outstanding accuracy from one of these

[cpy911]

For now it is a platform to experiment with reloading. It is nice, because I don't have to worry about getting things to work with a gas system on an auto loader.

I like to plink with it, believe it or not, shooting steel, water filled milk jugs is a blast.

Eventually, I will get out and harvest me a black tail deer, or I should say jungle rat, like we have here in the dense forests of western Oregon.

.

Well, Joe-Bob ( ) - I'd say you gotcherself sum pur-dee game-getter, right there !

What 'er yer plans fer her ?




.

[Sixgun]

Joe Bobby,
Its only a 2" gun when you can do it on command. For real, I have shot many 1" "fluke groups", with the next group running 3".

Even so, you still have a good one. It will most likely stay in that vicinity.-----------6

[Ben_Rumson]

cpy911
I've had the very same pleasant surprise with an open sighted rifle(3 shot 1" group @ 100 .yds) with someone else's rifle to boot! & with cheap factory sights I didn't think much of at the time, me being convinced that only a rear aperture sight could deliver good accuracy, but a second group fired with it that day that was not much bigger told me it was either two flukes in a row or this was an accurate rifle even w/ cr@ppy factory open sights!
Also over time I shot an open sighted rifle that changed my mind about open sights, a M96 Sweed Mauser that ran on average 1 & 1/4 inch 100 yd 5 shot groups with sub minute flukes thrown in too of course! That thing has a 29 inch long barrel and a one inch striker fall. In other words long bullet time in the barrel and loooong striker fall time, factors which are avoided by accuracy buffs. One fluke group I got with that rifle was 7/16ths of an inch... I stopped that group at 3 shots when the spotting scope showed me the three side by side shots made a slot!!!
Some prefer optics only, others the aperture rear sight and others will argue that the shallow V open sight is best...Depends on the range involved and how quick the shot must be made. I think what constitutes a crappy sight is a relative term... It depends on the shooter's eyesight and for accuracy/load testing, the shooter's skill level at deliberate bench shooting for accuracy..
In the 60s A test was conducted using US military shooting team marksmen considered to be of sufficient skill to evaluate open sights vs. aperture sights of the M16 vs. Com Block open sight system. It turns out IIRC that at about 350m the aperture sight system pulled away from the open sighted rifles, but up to that point the two types had run even...

[ollogger]

Joe Bobby,
Its only a 2" gun when you can do it on command. For real, I have shot many 1" "fluke groups", with the next group running 3".

Even so, you still have a good one. It will most likely stay in that vicinity.-----------6

Great shooting!

last fall I took out a 94 in 30WCF made in 1949 to shoot a new load with a Lee 115 GR. cast GC
not expecting anything great I shot 3 times at 50 yd. walked down there & it took some time to figure out I had 3 holes almost in one hole, I aint shot it since

Good thing I have more 94s


ollogger

[cpy911]

This Win 94 was a rescue project. I won an auction on Gunbroker for this rifle cheap. It was most likely in a flood, where the water damaged the stock/lever and part of the receiver. The damage was mostly cosmetic, except for an area on the stock near the butt plate that needed epoxy filler. I also had to epoxy the wrist of the stock to get a nice fit up with the receiver. I fully stripped the rifle down and put the individual parts that were rusted in an electrolysis bath to remove the rust. The lever was pitted, so I smoothed it over, removing some metal to get rid of the jagged edges, looks ugly but functional. I put a leather wrap on it and is fine. Most of the other metal parts turned out fine. The rifle is a great shooter and actually looks pristine from the muzzle to the stock wrist! Anyhow, it shoots fine for me!!!

BEFORE!










**********************AFTER!**********************************

[Blaine]

I'd say average 94.....The ugly ones try harder My 1951 shot into about an inch at about that far without trying.....I'll never touch the (factory) sights again, I'd imagine.....

[Griff]

I'm of the opinion that they're ALL capable. The question is whether we are either good enough shooters, and/or good enough mechanics to get the most out of the rifle's capabilities!

[Ben_Rumson]

Well said Griff

[RonW1969]

I also have the opinion that most of these rifles can do better than 3 or 4 inches @ 100. Espcially with better sights and a lload the rifle likes. Ive also noticed that some 30-30's groups tighten up using 170gr bullets instead of 150gr. I had a rifle that I put better sights on and used 170gr bullets, went from 4" groups to 2" groups @ 100.