your opinion--red dot or scope on a lever

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:15 pm

Currently, I use an XS Ghost ring with white post front sight. But, folks, my eyes seem to be getting older quicker than the rest of me. So, I'd like your opinion on placing a red dot or scope in a the XS scout mount I have on my .444. I'm considering an AimPoint red dot and a Leupold or Burris scout scope. Deer and hogs would be my main game animals, and most shots are 75-125 yards.

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:18 pm

I would get the 2.5x Leupold Scout Scope.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:19 pm

I'd probably go . . . scope. But, a red-dot might be good also. Less practical, but also intriguing would be a laser sight.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:23 pm

I use a red-dot on my Marlin when the light starts to get dim.

Works great.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:48 pm

I prefer holgraphic sights. Lower profile, quicker on target and lighter as well.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:05 pm

I use an Aimpoint red dot on my AR15. It's for up to 100 yd. work, mostly closequarters work. I'm a very big fan of it. Before I purhased it I did a little research. The military had given it's blessing and if it's good enough for our grunts and they can't break it, easily, then it's for me.

If I were looking for something for 50 yds. or longer ranges I'd go for a scope. The magnification helps a lot.

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:10 pm

I have a Leupold scout scope on my lever and it works great. At work I have a Leupold Mark 4 CQT. It's made for AR's but I believe it would hold up to a big bore. Problem is it's price - about $600. It magnifies up to 3x and has a circle/dot reticle that can illuminate to various brightness.
Good luck.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:45 pm

I have a Leupold Scout set-up on my 1895GS and a Burris SpeedDot I've had on my 629 and now the BFR. The dot is fairly big and I've not tried it on a rifle, but on the hand guns, it tightened up my groups by a factor of at least 3 or 4..... Very fast on target.

Greg807 · Post by **Greg807** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:50 pm

If ya cant shoot 5'' at 2 ya need ta earn the glass

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:03 pm

I have a Burris shotgun scope on a 336. Very good eye relief, bright and clear. I'm not crazy about the looks, but when the light gets dim it sure helps.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:19 pm

I put a Tasco red dot on the 336C my wife swiped from me and she loves it. The red dot covers exactly where the bullet hits out to about 150 yards. It works fine for me when I can get it away from her, and I spend 40 hours a week staring at a computer screen. That is kind of rough on the eyes.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:54 pm

I'll suggest a scope with illuminated reticle, that way you get the best of both.

Cheers,

Carl

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:11 pm

My problem with dots is that most of the dots are too darned big. It's mighty hard for me to get a decent group at 100 yards when the dot is 3" in diameter. Of course, at close range that's of little import, but I'd still prefer a scope of no more than 4X -- really, 1.5 to 2.5X is plenty.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:53 pm

Jeff Quinn wrote:I would get the 2.5x Leupold Scout Scope.

+1

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:33 pm

you might consider the Weaver 1-3x, it's great to look through at 1x.

gcs · Post by **gcs** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:45 pm

Cheap red dots don't work very well in my experience, poor low light visibility, and no magnification, with a limited field of view. Can't comment on the good ones, other then they are pricey. Red dots are fast on target though, and about idiot proof.
I'd go for a low power scope

rock-steady · Post by **rock-steady** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:59 pm

Another vote here on a low-powered scope. The battery on a red dot scope will go out at the worst possible moment.

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:09 pm

Why ruin a perfectly good levergun with either?!

Of course i have several EBRs for that kind of thing but I really cant see putting scopes or Red Dots on leverguns.

dave in maine · Post by **dave in maine** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:59 pm

i've got the scope on my 357 carbine and the tasco red dot on my 35 rem.both are set up scout style and the tasco affords the comfortable carry.i think the red dot has the edge in speed.at 66 i need all the edge i can get.

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:01 pm

Guys,

I appreciate the input. A couple of questions--

For those familiar with red dots, what is your personal experience with battery life? Are you successful with your red dot at night where night hunting is legal?

For those familiar with scout scopes, there are a lot of dense woods with patchy clearings where I hunt. Are the Leupold or Burris scopes able to gather enough light where dim light is the only light available? What method do you use for illumination at night where night hunting is legal?

For both types of optics, what about maintaining zero if quick release rings are used to switch between optic and ghost ring or laser? Based on what Marshal Stanton has said about using laser sights for night hunting on beartoothbullets.com, I might also consider getting one for that part of my shooting.

ursavus.elemensis · Post by **ursavus.elemensis** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:12 pm

I have an Aimpoint CompM4 on my AR-15 and it has a 7 year (not a typo, that is SEVEN YEAR) battery life. I will respectfully suggest that it will NOT fail at the worst possible moment.

As for holding the zero, you can take the Aimpoint off the rifle, throw it, yes THROW it across the ground and then retrieve it and put it back on the rifle, and it will have the exact same zero. Don't believe me? No problem, check http://link.brightcove.com/services/lin ... 1395583585 out this video.

I don't think I'd choose to put something like that on a lever rifle.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:47 am

Scout scopes are iron sights for old eyes. Best gun invention in a long time...

I've dug around the internet about red dots. Seen several claims that accuracy improvement over iron sights is substantial, even though they are non-magnifying. One of the smaller 1" tube sites on a scope mount is not going to turn your levergun into a clumsy clunker. Stay away from the tiny pistol screen sights like the JP Enterprises site (yes, I tried it, could not get a repeatable zero).

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:57 am

Scope is better than a red dot - IMHO. I have used both and still have a red dot, but am not currently using it. I find scopes work better for me.

Grace and Peace.

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:25 am

I think Homefront and Sobenk are right on track as I use both those types scopes and they are great! I think a low power scope with a good visible reticle used with BOTH eyes open is just about impossible to beat for short range, fast shooting, period. If you have not tried it, then do! I have another scope I recently purchased that's even a tad better than the two already mentioned. A Leupold European model 30mm 1.25-4x20. Very bright in low light and very fast to use with German #4 reticle.

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:48 am

I vote scope - I have a Leupold fixed 2.5 on my Marlin Guide Gun. It is mounted in the last slots on the XS scout rail - almost right up against the ghost ring - I like the set up and seems to work for me. The Leupold fixed scopes have plenty of eye relief for this application.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:34 pm

I'll have to say scope also.....

If your anything like me (used to have a bushnell 4 reticle dot on my guidegun)
Almost everytime I put it away I had left it on, only to break it out with a dead
battery

In the early morning and late afternoon it caused me to move allot "on stand"
because what was bright enough at 6:30am I couldn't see at 6:45am.
Also what was bright enough at 4:30pm would snatch away my ability so see
in failing light at 4:45pm (too bright).

Just because I said that doesn't mean there aren't 100 other gents out there
that LOVE their red dots.

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:38 pm

As far as using a reddot at night. It may sound like a good idea, but the ones I have used were no good. The light from the reddot screws it all up.

For night hunting I havent found anything better than a low powered scope with a thick crosshair and a buddy with a big spotlight.

gcs · Post by **gcs** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:58 pm

The cheap BSA red dot I put on my son's 336 was only good during normal daylight, night shooting would have been impossible.
A low power scope, even a cheap one, works well after sunset for longer then you'd expect.Depending on background, you can usually see closer range targets at night if you have a bright moon.

A decent one man night shooting rig, is a head light (coon light), that you adjust so you can see your target when the gun is mounted.
I know a guy that has killed more deer at night with that rig, then most people have during the day.

I've never done it, but see that when shooting hogs over a feeder at night, guys hang small battery powered green LED lights on branches or high on the feeder to cast a greenish glow around it just bright enough so targets can be seen with a scope.

Or... you can just get a Gen 1, (or better) nightscope and have at it.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:11 pm

The red-dot that I use is an Eotech. 10,000hr battery life, and it shuts itself off after 4 hours if you accidentally leave it on.

Nothing works in pitch black but the reticle intensity has 20 levels of adjustment, so there is a good chance that you can get pretty darn close.

Put the dot where you want the bullet to go from any angle through the scope window.

Point. Click.

Really easy.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:21 pm

FWiedner wrote:
Put the dot where you want the bullet to go from any angle through the scope window.

Point. Click.

Really easy.

Hey FW, I never tested it when I had mine, but are those red dots parallax free?

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:33 pm

I tried a Bushnell Trophy 1x, coated lenses in a tube with multiple reticle configurations. No magnification, but just the lenses in a tube causes some distortion. For that one I'll say no.

The Eotech has no magnification and no "tube" wiith lenses that need to be focused at a particular range, so for that one I'll say yes.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:40 pm

Thank you Sir

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:55 pm

Good points for both types of optics discussed in a civil manner. I'll keep this thread for my future reference. Now, I just have to get to the toy store to try them both , and see which one suits me best.