Scope decision

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:14 am

The wife of one of my buddies asked me to pick a scope for him for Father's Day. It will go on a Marlin 336. My inclination is a Leupold 1 to 5 power since it is small and he won't shoot very far.

Some people don't like the little scopes because they want a wider field of view. Another idea would be the Leupold 3 to 9 Compact.

She is OK on money so she wants a Leupold. Any other ideas for a good scope? I am thinking low mounts.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:29 am

I have that scope and in my opinion you can't beat it.

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:32 am

You are right in looking at a low powered scope for that rifle. The lower power wil give you the field of view, the only thing you give up with the 20mm bell is light gathering in the early morning or late eve. For that the compact scope with the 33mm bell is better. Since the rifle is a short one, a compact or smaller length scope makes sense.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:32 am

I worked for a major scope maker for 5 years and I have a healthy dislike of variables of ANY make.
Convince yourself, take a small scale with you and weigh a variable against a fixed power.
Jumping around , changing power means that you never become comfortable with any 1 setting.
Get a small fixed power, tell your friend to spend the time & effort learning to shoot it.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:36 am

The Leupold is the perfect choice - IMHO. Encourage her to get Leupold bases and rings too - extra low.

ETA: this is my .356 Win converted M336C.

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:06 am

All my hunting guns wear a fixed 4 power , when I look in scope at game my brain automatically adjust for yardage . Only my varmint guns get variable like a 4x12x40AO .

scarville · Post by **scarville** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:45 am

It would be hard to go wrong with a Leupold.

I've have a Leupold 3-9 on my bolt action rifle. One advantage to a variable is I can set it to the power best suited to my eyes and preferences, sight it in and then I leave it there. Right now, it's set at 4X but that may change in the future, A disadvantage is that a variable has more lenses to get knocked loose in an accident.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:51 am

I'd choose the VX-II 2-7 x 28 Ultralight. It's the lowest power/largest objective/shortest/lightest scope I see on their website. I have the older Vari-X compact AO in 2-7x28 and it gives good low-light visibility. I can't see well in low light through the 20 mm objectives.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Tycer wrote:I'd choose the VX-II 2-7 x 28 Ultralight. It's the lowest power/largest objective/shortest/lightest scope I see on their website. I have the older Vari-X compact AO in 2-7x28 and it gives good low-light visibility. I can't see well in low light through the 20 mm objectives.

+1

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:43 pm

tn gun runner wrote:All my hunting guns wear a fixed 4 power , when I look in scope at game my brain automatically adjust for yardage . Only my varmint guns get variable like a 4x12x40AO .

I like that approach...!

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:26 pm

Not much adjusting to do in range at 30-30 ranges. The 1.5-5x is the one I had in mind on my previous post. Gives the advantage of a wider field if you want it. Mine has riden my 7-08 for almost 1000 rds and has been completely dependable.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:23 pm

Tycer wrote:I'd choose the VX-II 2-7 x 28 Ultralight. It's the lowest power/largest objective/shortest/lightest scope I see on their website. I have the older Vari-X compact AO in 2-7x28 and it gives good low-light visibility. I can't see well in low light through the 20 mm objectives.

+1

This is really an underrated little scope. It has great eye relief and field of view at 2X and is very light and compact. If you set it up in Warne two piece bases and Weaver low rings, you will have about the lowest possible setup.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:55 pm

mescalero1 wrote:I worked for a major scope maker for 5 years and I have a healthy dislike of variables of ANY make.
Convince yourself, take a small scale with you and weigh a variable against a fixed power.
Jumping around , changing power means that you never become comfortable with any 1 setting.
Get a small fixed power, tell your friend to spend the time & effort learning to shoot it.

The more I read/learn about scopes the more I am sure that your advice is very good. I always think back to the Mossin's with their low powered fixed scopes. 500 meters = DRT.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:04 pm

Got Leupolds on most of my scoped guns along with my spotting scope being a fixed 30X 60mm Gold Ring,but I have to say the last scope I put on was a Burris 4X Short Mag(unreal clarity)

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:39 pm

Andrew,
Every make of variable, no matter what brand name is on them suffers from the complexity if internal mechanism to make the " power " change be available, excessive mechanism makes for excessive weight.
It also incurs wear and repeatability problems, it is good that the mass of shooters are really not very good shooters or they would be seeing the POI changes in thier rifle/ scope combos during this power changing " tomfoolery " ( here come the catcalls & and offers to shoot against me )
It is all bovine scatology!
1) Get a quality fixed power
2) get plenty of the load you intend to shoot
3) spend the money you saved on the variable on a good laser rangefinder
4) sit down at the bench and learn how to shoot your rig

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:08 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Andrew,
Every make of variable, no matter what brand name is on them suffers from the complexity if internal mechanism to make the " power " change be available, excessive mechanism makes for excessive weight.
It also incurs wear and repeatability problems, it is good that the mass of shooters are really not very good shooters or they would be seeing the POI changes in thier rifle/ scope combos during this power changing " tomfoolery " ( here come the catcalls & and offers to shoot against me )
It is all bovine scatology!
1) Get a quality fixed power
2) get plenty of the load you intend to shoot
3) spend the money you saved on the variable on a good laser rangefinder
4) sit down at the bench and learn how to shoot your rig

I agree with all four.

However, with Leupold you are stuck with the 4x scope magnification in their fixed, which IMO is too much for that gun. A fixed 2x or even better a 1.5x with a 32 objective would be ideal for me. A 4x used to be the long range sniper scope. 1.5x on a moving animal is way easier than a 4x for me. Additionally the FOV on a 4x is pretty small in comparison.

I had the same dilemma with my close-range guns. I chose the low power variable and keep them fixed just off their lowest settings. It seems when you go all the way high or low, edge distortion exists, even on the really spendy ones.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:12 pm

Some good advice. I will throw my 2 cents in I guess. I love the scope you are thinking of, but a better one for light gathering is the 1.75x6 which I have on my BLR. It is the same price as the 1.5x5 too. You cannot go wrong with either one really.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:15 pm

Leupold makes a 2 1/2X fixed-power scope.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-3607-94-leupold- ... scope.aspx

.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:16 pm

Tycer,
You are right and the American makers 25 years ago all had a variety of low power fixed scopes.
Now the marketing people control the engineneering groups and no real shooters are represented in the planning groups .
The result, expensive, ill suited to the purpose, loaded up, weighted up, unusable junk.
The newer shooters do not know it was not always so.
This is what impresses me about Andrew, this is not the first time he has shown that he is willing to look to the past for lessons learned.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:23 pm

I have several variables and a bunch of fixed power scopes. Only once ( 30 years ago) did I have a problem with one (a Leupold 3x9) and they fixed it for free in short order.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:24 pm

I am going to jump in to defend the low-upper range variable scope.

Most of the time, my scope will stay on 4 or 5x. But there are times when being able to dial the scope down to 1 or 2x is desired - like if you want to hunt in thick brush or you go from open areas to thickly wooded areas where shots are going to be 50 yards or less - its really good to be able to put the scope on 1x and get the super wide field of view.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:29 pm

What O.S.O.K. said + 1

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:30 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Tycer,
You are right and the American makers 25 years ago all had a variety of low power fixed scopes.
Now the marketing people control the engineneering groups and no real shooters are represented in the planning groups .
The result, expensive, ill suited to the purpose, loaded up, weighted up, unusable junk.
The newer shooters do not know it was not always so.
This is what impresses me about Andrew, this is not the first time he has shown that he is willing to look to the past for lessons learned.

Amen!

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:18 pm

I shoot and sight in my hunting guns in the way I shoot them in the field . I have a 12x12 inch steel target which is the size of a deer kill zone set out at 300 yds . I have never miss it shooting off cross sticks and this 4 power scope is perfect for deer at 50 to 400 yds . This gun has never been shot on a bench . I've shot 5 shot groups under 1 inch on cross sticks at 100 yds many times with the 4 power scope .......

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:30 pm

That is what I am talking about, learn to shoot your rig, the way you shoot.
Is that a K-4 Micro -Trac?

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:50 pm

mescalero1 wrote:That is what I am talking about, learn to shoot your rig, the way you shoot.
Is that a K-4 Micro -Trac?

NO ..... I got that scope for a buddy and it is clearer and brighter then my K-4 micro wide angle and he want my scope more then this one so we traded . Here my other hunting gun that has killed over 100 jacks which all were shot 75 to 150 yds . It has a Bushnell 4 power 22 scope with a 1" tube .

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:53 pm

Fixed power rules!

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:14 pm

my woods hunting rifles that wear scopes, all have Leupold 2-7x on them. I feel it is the perfect combo of power and usefulness...

CEMENTHEAD · Post by **CEMENTHEAD** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:43 pm

My vote is for a 2.5x Leupold. Small, light, and rugged. Doesn't look TOO out of place on a lever.....

. My $.02. Thanks, Tom

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:11 pm

If you need 2X scope , you should have been shooting iron sight so anything under 4X is a waste . If you can't hit a deer at 400 yds , a squirrel at 100 yds and a rabbit at 200 yds with a 4X scope adding a 24X won't make you a better shooter . Only target , varmint and over 400 yds hunting need more that 4X . My target and match guns wear 6x/18x , 16x and a 24x . Anything under 100 yds this the sight you need . I put 5 Tn deer down with my SASS/CAS gun ,50 yds to 125 yds and I put 3 out of 3 shots in one running at 75 yds , so all that SASS/CAS shooting that I do helps .

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:21 am

I also have a Trijicon 1.25-4 Accupoint I've never mounted. They have a new 1-4x24 30mm straight tube that looks to be good.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:33 am

Leupold 3x, frequently on ebay,saw one there over weekend,perfect for leverguns in my old guy opinion.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:06 am

tn gun runner wrote:If you need 2X scope , you should have been shooting iron sight so anything under 4X is a waste . If you can't hit a deer at 400 yds , a squirrel at 100 yds and a rabbit at 200 yds with a 4X scope adding a 24X won't make you a better shooter . Only target , varmint and over 400 yds hunting need more that 4X . My target and match guns wear 6x/18x , 16x and a 24x . Anything under 100 yds this the sight you need . I put 5 Tn deer down with my SASS/CAS gun ,50 yds to 125 yds and I put 3 out of 3 shots in one running at 75 yds , so all that SASS/CAS shooting that I do helps .

I will have to disagree with you somewhat on this point. A 2X scope can be greatly superior to any open sights at dusk and dawn in the thick woods. In open country, I would agree with you.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:15 pm

They discontinued the Weaver 2.5x fixed, but there was only about an ounce of weight difference between it and the variable. And the fixed was longer. The 4x38 version is only 1.1 ounces lighter than the 2-10 38, but the 2.5-7x32 is actually lighter than the fixed 4x38.

Durability might be an issue but if the market is going to variables, it's probably for a reason.

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:39 pm

TNBigBore wrote: I will have to disagree with you somewhat on this point. A 2X scope can be greatly superior to any open sights at dusk and dawn in the thick woods. In open country, I would agree with you.

You have never shot a tang sight with a gold or white bead . All you do is look thought hole and NO NEED to line anything up and just put the front bead on the target and pull the trigger . This is the view you get with a tang sight . Take a black piece paper and punch a hole in it with a ball point pen 5/32 and hold it 2 inches from your eye or tape it to your glasses and then pickup rifle and look at the front sight you will see why hitting a running deer is possible . I had a 1.5X 4.5 on my 375HH and I had trouble with a walking target at 1.5 X . The biggest problem people with a peep is they use too small of a hole . I made this sight . And when I hunt I use a lot larger hole then in pic . I hope this help someone .

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:17 am

A four or six power scope would be perfect for this rifle. More magnification will only encourage him to shoot farther than he should, and miss close up opportunities.

mark · Post by **mark** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:20 am

Hmm,

We're not blessed with the options you blokes have, Sydney Aus.

Anyway, have ordered a Burris 2-7x35 Fullfield 11, for my 45-70, have used one before, great scope.

Had a look through a Leupold 2-7, the Burris suits my eyes better.

The Burris is to replace a Bushnell 1.5-4.5x32, maybe me but I have no confidence in this sample of their production.

Have the same scope on a Marlin 30-30, great!.

However, would just as soon have a fixed 4x, not all that easy down here, variables rule the market place.

Cheers

Mark

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:11 am

They do here as well, if you want a good fixed, you have to haunt the purveyers, and find a good old one.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:39 am

I have, and recommend the Lyman All-American. darn good scope, no longer made. The Alaskan is even better, I think. Really solid vintage, fixed power scope. I see them on E-bay, from time to time.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:18 am

To compare on the Model 7 1.5-5x, this one is not afraid of benches. Best group so small I am not going to mention it.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:21 am

4x Leupold, the old kind,
1.75-6x Leupold
Weaver 2.5
Leupold 4x Compact.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:23 am

Leupold 2.5x,

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:30 am

Weaver Steel Lite II 2.5x
Leupold 3x

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:30 am

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:47 pm

There's a Weaver K4 on this site for sale. I don't really need it, but would like to have it in case I find a gun that needs it in the future. Hope the guy wants a trade.