Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com

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If you lay two cartridges in a line on a flat surface you will see that the downward slope of the cartridge places the point of the bullet away from the primer.

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Only 1 1/2 weeks to go!

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Six.....
Isn't it past your bedtime.........

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casastahle,
You are most welcome. One of the things that has been on my to do list is to put together some close replication loads using 9.2 / Blue Dot which, in checking for velocity, replicated the Sealing load velocity. I just need to test to see how the accuracy would have been.

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I checked one of them - 6 BHN. They could have softened somewhat since they were made 70+ years ago.

By comparison, pure lead is around 4.2 BHN

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Range report with the new tang sight installed and dialed in. This 5 shot group was done in a real world deer hunting style. Butt on the ground, back against a post, elbows on the knees. 5 shots one right after the other, no barrel swabbing between shots. Used my hand cast soft lead bullets, cast f...

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1,2,3, - Savage 99's
4,10 - Winchester '66 Commemoratives
5 - Winchester '92
6,8,11 - Marlin Cowboy's
7 - 1893 Marlin
9 - 336A Marlin
12 - 1894-1994 Winchester Centennial
13,15 - 336 Marlin
14 - Winchester '64

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The .30-30 "Sealing Cartridge" is an interesting variation. I was lucky enough to find 2 of these cartridges several years ago. I tested one....it contained about 9 grs. of smokeless and produced 1,285 f.p.s. http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/30-30Sealing1JPG.jpg Bullet weight ...

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That is a neat box circa mid late 1920's. Early on, there were some other manufacturers that made .30-30's with a fair amount of lead exposed. U.M.C. comes to mind...... http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/UMC_2_160_SP_FN_4_Sn_ss.jpg Although neat to look at, a few trips into a tubular magazine and...

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2014 Lever Action Jubilee Bring your Marlins / Winchesters / Savages & numerous rounds of ammunition (jacketed or cast bullets) To: Ridgway Rifle Club, Ridgway, PA October 11 & 12 For some lever action silhouette fun! - Bring as many rifles as you want! Some for show too! - Two classes: iron...

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My gun club is running this poster in Oct. Perhaps your club might want to do something similar.

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I recently ordered and received some 90 gr. .30 Cal cast bullets (100 count) from Desperado just to see how they would perform.

http://www.cowboybullets.com/32-Caliber_c_1.html

I loaded 10 over 5 grs of 4756 for about 1100 f.p.s. Two 5 shot groups @ 50 averaged 1 1/4".

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Nice!! Here's a few beautiful '73's.... http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/Deluxe73r.jpg http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/Erlichr.jpg http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/73Deluxe1stModel.jpg "America" Beautiful scene! http://i...

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Roy,
Great guns!
Great shooting, you "Wicked Good Shooter!!

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Jack,
Yes the 11th & 12th. I need to start a post with the information.
I will be there....unless the good Lord knows something I don't

Hope you can make it and topple some of those distant coyotes.
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Ben,
Thank you for the link! Now we know for sure!.
In the past, I have read several accounts of who the actual killer was thought ro be.

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What's an appropriate bullet for a .32-40 lever gun? I'm looking for something more or less "traditional" that would have been used in the rifle 100 yrs ago what about this? http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=56 Brent, SInce you are looking ...

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6pt, Yes, about 3 years ago or so, they added a Long Range Varmint Benchrest course of fire. 10 shots each distance - 40 round match - steel targets 850 yards - crows 900 yards - woodchucks 950 yards - bobcats 1000 yards - coyotes Lots of interest in this game. They are getting over 100 shooters to ...

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Six... That's really neat! :D The steel coyotes at 1,000 yards are calling your name........out yonder just below the forest line.... http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/lever%20action%20jubilee/2011Steve1000yardcoyotesfire.jpg http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Ridgway%202008/R...

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w30wcf, My favorite light bullet .30 wcf load is the Speer plinker 100 grain over a bit of W231, I think it's six grains but I'd have to look. I believe I got this load from you here years ago. I have a couple of pounds of trail boss and will load this bullet with some of it eventually. Dean Dean, ...

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A bit of history ........ In the early 1900's Ideal (forerunner of present day Lyman) catalogs had a chapter on "Reduced Loads in.30 Caliber Rifles". To that end they offered lighter versions of a couple of their standard bullets. The 308206-125 and 308241-125 are a couple of examples........

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earlmck, Yes indeed, they surely were "the good old days." :D At 1,200 f.p.s. no g.c. is required. There was another light bullet .30-30 cartridge back then.... the . 30-30 Miniature which was offered only by U.M.C. and Savage. It was loaded with a 100 gr. full metal patched bullet at arou...

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earlmck, I guess you could call me a .30-30 light bullet nut of sorts. Since I took that pic, I purchased a Lee 100 gr. RN mold and an RCBS 110 gr. RNFP GC mold which is similar to the 311316 (#9 in the pic) except that the nose portion is a little longer. In a way, we are repeating history. Back in...

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casastahle, Thank you for the range report. :D The tang sight is a great idea and the pards have given some great advice. In the meantime, you could try the Merit disc on some glasses which, in the past, before I installed tang sights, worked really well to sharpen the sight picture. Although instea...

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Great report. :D One of my favorite things to shoot in my .30-30's. 100 gr. RCBS 50 yds http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/RCBS100gr.jpg Lyman 3118 50 yds http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/w3030c50yls-1.jpg For those that don't cast: The 90 gr. Hornady SWC works really well. I...

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Dusty, What's your technique for getting a full 40 grains in the brass? I can get 38 in no problem. 40 grains through the drop tube fills the brass even with the rim. No room to even get the bullet started. The Swiss powder that Dusty uses is more dense. My lot is 10% more dense than the Goex I hav...

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Hey w30wcf, do you make the poly disc? Or where can I get them? I have a few thousand .030 and .060 vegetable wads that I use in my 40-60wcf cartridges. That is what I will try next. Thanks for the reminder ( Rio Conchos) that Richard Boone was one of my favorite Bad Guy's . Have you guys heard any...

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Hello Dusty, As you had mentioned, a card wad could help. One thing I did not mention....a .060" thick poly disc would be a plus. In addition to the PSB which did a very good job of keeping the powder gases behind the undersized bullet allowing it to make the 21" trip down the barrel undis...

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I was much younger then......

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Yes, I do remember....

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Check http://www.rtgammo.com/
There is a pic of a decent early Winchester .38 W.C.F. box there now that was sold so I don't know how long it will be listed.

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Owen, I would not push the wax bullets down into the bottom of the case since that would reduce the wax bullet dia since the case is tapered toward the bottom. It's been awhile since I shot wax bullets in the .45 Colt. Magnum pistol primers worked pretty well. In a revolver to keep the primers from ...

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Dusty, Nice vintage Winchester you found! Were you using pure lead bullets pushed by b.p.? If not, you might want to give that a try. A card wad would be a good idea as you indicated. I have found that a pure lead bullet as much as .010" undersized will shoot fairly well from my '73 .44 W.C.F. ...

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Well done! As to why some of the cases that were previously fired in the same chamber - I can't recall if you had it relined but if so and they were fired in the original chamber that is likely the reason. If that is not the case, perhaps there is something in the chamber that was not there when the...

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I rummaged through my stuff and found a fired 38-40 case. I dumped 38 grs. by weight of Goex FFG slowly into the case per the above method and the powder came up to about .10" below the case mouth. The bullet seating depth will need to be around .35" which will require .25" of powder ...

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Now that I think of it, your Winchester tool, if it's like mine, does not size the case and the bullets are a slip fit in fired cases with the crimp holding them in place.

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casastahle, Looks like you are doing fine. :D If you pour the charge slowly through a powder funnel (about 4 to 5 seconds holding the measure about 4-5 inches above it) you will find that it will settle about .10" or thereabouts. Here's a pic showing the difference between dropped and settled a...

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Pete, Interestingly, when the .38 W.C.F. cartridge was intoduced in 1879, it was originally loaded with a 160 gr. bullet and 37 grs. of b.p. In 1881 the charge was increased to 40 grs. b.p. In 1882 the bullet weight was increased to 180 grs. From 1882 to 1891, the .38 W.C.F. contained a 180 gr bulle...

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Jack, You are most welcome. Don't you just love those "aha" moments.... The Remington blanks that I have shot in the past did not fully open the mouth so I found that the best recourse was to anneal the forward section of the case before expanding / resizing to keep the cases from splittin...

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Jack, The shot capsule is made of some sort of waxed hard paper / cardboard. They were intended for the Marbles Game Getter Gun. It used these 4 cartridges....one of them being recreated by you. :D All used the standard .44-40 or .44-40 blank cartridge case. http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w3...

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Six,
Nice job! Neat!
Now you need to make up some of these......

Just take out that lever thingy.......insert........replace..........KABOOM!

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Interesting write up, though I question a couple of their statements. I don't believe the FMJ bullet was all that was available for the 30-30 in the beginning, as they stated. It was one load available, but I believe the soft point was the primary game bullet available. If anyone has citation of th...

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BrentD, When U.M.C. Introduced their .38-40 cartridge later in the 1880's it was a replication of Winchester's .38 W.C.F. except that the head stamp read .38-40. Marlin most likely also had something to do with it since they did not manufacture ammunition like Winchester so they needed to partner wi...

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six...
WATCH OUT for ricochets!

That poor, trusted, faithful, defenseless, lawnmower

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Mescalero wrote:No answer forthcoming?

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/blowups.htm
see "metal fatigue"

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Roy, Great idea on shortening the sizing die to make the neck longer to support the base of the bullet. I had done the same thing to my RCBS .44-40 die awhile back. I did find, later, that my Lee FCD can actually press a crimp groove into a lead alloy bullet (see pic below - bullet pulled from a cri...

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I think the idea of a .44/40 BP load giving pass-throughs on deer to 200 yards is factory fantasy. Bill, Elmer Keith wrote about shooting a bear with a factory .45 Colt cartridge which penetrated the bear completely. The 44-40 from a rifle at 200 yards carries a bit more velocity than the .45 Colt ...

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Sixgun,
Hope the larger diameter bullet will tighten things up.
When I use .456/.457 dia. bullets in the .45 Colt, I find that the Lyman .45-70 "M" die works really well in my neck sized cases (sized to about 1/16" below to where the base of the bullet will be).

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Here is some information from an 1875 Winchester Catalog (Soft lead bullets at 1,300 f.p.s.) ..."I have fully tested the late improved Winchester Rifle and take pleasure in stating that it is the best rifle I have ever used. I have killed a number of deer, at distances from one to two hundred y...

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I have no personal experience but here are two examples of .44-40 performance on deer ........ From another website.... Well, I had success this weekend with the 44-40. It had been raining and sleeting for two days. I was not using my deer stand, because the deer were not moving. I was still hunting...

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