1873 winchester half-mag

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:18 am

Here is a unique 1873 Winchester I just picked up. It sports a 22" half oct. barrel half magazine, 38wcf cal. fancy walnut . I installed a new set of Lee Shavers toggle links and pins. The new set of toggles dropped right in,and brought the head space back into spec. The bore has decent lands and grooves but is pitted. Will do some test loads on the bench and see if it will shoot. Will post results. ,,,,DT

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:51 am

Nice configuration and as you know, very rare barrel type. What model? 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.?------------6

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:06 am

Hey Six, its a early third mod. Looks like (1885) Has a Rocky Mt. front and a Sporting rear, this one points great, with that barrel and mag combo. Starting to get hooked on this one . ,,DT

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:49 pm

That's a really great find. Would great to carry even though not enough rounds for SASS. Try some gas checks for that pitted barrel.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:55 pm

that's a beauty, wish he could talk, there's a lot of story telling in that one.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:01 pm

Hey Ron,
If you find that it needs a reline, I highly recommend this guy for job.
He did mine and I couldn't be happier with it.

I was getting key holes about every second or third shot at 50 yards before relining.

http://www.redmansrifling.com/relining.htm

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:10 am

Thank's for the suggestions fellows.This one reminds me of the one Paul Newman used in the movie (Hombre) even down to the no finish on the metal ! M.M. Wright , if it does not shoot my std. 38wcf bp. load . Gas checks will be next! Grizz bet it could tell some stories. Casastahle I have heard nothing but good about them. Packing up for the range ,in this 100+ Heat! ,,,DT

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:51 am

Dusty,
I see you know enough not to play "alternations" with that barrel.

----6

Hawkeye2 · Post by **Hawkeye2** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:34 am

Similar but Newman had a half mag. '76.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:12 am

I've never really cared for the ½ or button mag... tho', they're often excellent shooters. Good luck at the range.

Dusty Texian wrote:...Packing up for the range ,in this 100+ Heat! ,,,DT

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:57 am

Hawkeye2 wrote:Similar but Newman had a half mag. '76.

That is what( Wikipedia) called his rifle in Hombre! (a 76 half mag. ) But if you look close at the pictures of the rifle he is holding in the movie ,it IS a Model (1873 )Winchester half mag. round barrel. I have a few Model 1876 Winchester rifles and can tell the difference at a glance! Griff it took me a while to warm up to the half mags,now I kind of like them. Just got back from the range. First load was a soft lead bullet cast from the original Winchester mould 181gr. @.401 home brew lube 36 gr. 2ff Swiss BY WEIGHT light compression, std. Win. lp primer. At 50yd. on the bags ,,,,was ugly! all shots fired with this load key-holed. The second load except for the 38 gr. BY WEIGHT powder charge was the same . Three shot group round holes about 2" group. That was all I brought to try. Next trip I will up the charge 40gr. that will be a heavy compression load. Will try this and a couple other changes ,before I give-up on the bore! ,,,DT

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:42 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:
Hawkeye2 wrote:Similar but Newman had a half mag. '76.
That is what( Wikipedia) called his rifle in Hombre! (a 76 half mag. ) But if you look close at the pictures of the rifle he is holding in the movie ,it IS a Model (1873 )Winchester half mag. round barrel. I have a few Model 1876 Winchester rifles and can tell the difference at a glance! Griff it took me a while to warm up to the half mags,now I kind of like them. Just got back from the range. First load was a soft lead bullet cast from the original Winchester mould 181gr. @.401 home brew lube 36 gr. 2ff Swiss BY WEIGHT light compression, std. Win. lp primer. At 50yd. on the bags ,,,,was ugly! all shots fired with this load key-holed. The second load except for the 38 gr. BY WEIGHT powder charge was the same . Three shot group round holes about 2" group. That was all I brought to try. Next trip I will up the charge 40gr. that will be a heavy compression load. Will try this and a couple other changes ,before I give-up on the bore! ,,,DT

I know that a 181gr .401 is quite a bit longer than a 185gr in .452... but I get the same keyholing out of my 24" '73, whether it's BP or smokeless. I move to a 200gr RN and get good groups and nice round holes! And that's with an excellent bore.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:49 pm

Wow! Your results sound very familiar to what mine were before the reline.
Thanks for the range report.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:06 pm

Thanks for the input fellows. Here is a pic. of the first group with the 36 gr. Swiss bp. charge .Nice square holes .

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:15 pm

Here is what the same except for 2gr. more @ 38gr. charge of bp. Tighter group and semi round holes. One other thing ,I had not cleaned the bore from the first three shots. I will try a gr. or two more powder and may try a card wad .I want to cast some harder bullets for test in this old bore ,but the weather will need to cool a bit first! ,,,DT

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:16 pm

Dusty, did you happen to Chronograph any of those rounds fired today?

Griff, how would stepping up to a heavier bullet help in a barrel that rifling
is all but non existent like mine was?
That would never have been an option for me anyway.
I had my heart set on using my antique Winchester mold and loading
tool that goes with the model 73.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:24 pm

Casastahle ,no I did not . I traveled light today ,the temps down here are Hot! ,,DT

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Griff are you getting more bearing surface on the 200 gr. 452 over the 185gr.? I want to stay with this bullet if possible,in my case a harder bullet may not strip as much . Looks like speed may be helping the spin.

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:50 pm

Lovely rifle, that configuration is very appealing!

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:53 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:Casastahle ,no I did not . I traveled light today ,the temps down here are Hot! ,,DT

I just ordered a Chronograph yesterday.
I should have it here by early next week.
I postponed my range trip till next week when I have it in hand.
I'm really looking forward to trying out my first batch of home brew BP rounds.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Dusty,
Nice vintage Winchester you found! Were you using pure lead bullets pushed by b.p.? If not, you might want to give that a try. A card wad would be a good idea as you indicated.

I have found that a pure lead bullet as much as .010" undersized will shoot fairly well from my '73 .44 W.C.F. Half Mag. Short Rifle with a full load of Swiss FFG. It also has a pitted bore.

When I first got the rifle 15 years ago, I discovered that the groove was .436" in front of the chamber and .4335" at barrel exit. In anticipation of finding an original '73 I had purchased a box of Winchester Cowboy cartridges a year or two before I found the rifle.

Obviously the .428" / 16 bhn bullets did not do well the oversized barrel. Soooo......I decided to pull the bullets, replace the powder with slower burning 4227, placed some PSB (Poly Shot Buffer) over the powder to act as a flexible gas check, then reseated the bullet.
It worked!

(Target Pic too large to post)
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/ ... -40PSB.jpg

Shortly thereafter I had a mold made to produce the correct size bullets (no PSB needed) and the rifle shoots just fine with smokeless and b.p.

Isn't it great to get these vintage rifles talking once again!

w30wcf

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:06 pm

Very cool ammo. box John

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:03 am

I would agree that trying softer bullets as well as lighter and heavier bullets may shoot better. A different question comes to my drifting mind, though. As long as they group acceptably, what would be the problem of bullets going through the game sideways?

Gobbler

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:01 am

Hello w30wcf thanks for the input and the pic's. That beautiful 73 half mag of yours is what I thought of when I saw this one for sale.I was thinking two ways to get this one to shoot.The bullets that were used are pure lead ,very soft. The targets show that this bullet ,bad barrel combo,likes a stiff powder charge. I will try a load with a gr. or two more powder. I think that it may bump-up the bullet a bit more.Just for a test I thought about going in the other direction,with a different approach.A hard cast bullet wheel wt. and gas check, a Smokless charge in a slower velocity. Cant loose much but a bit of lead and powder. Looks like a re-line will not be in the cards for this one. The muzzel is to small for a re-line . Will try and contact JES reboring and ask about a re-bore ,up to .44wcf.If there is meat enough for clean-up that would be a very nice option ,a fresh .44wcf bore in that rifle would soon turn into my handy rifle. Gobblerforge,you said what I did when I looked at the square holes in the target yesterday morning. Boy if you could just control that!!! I think the animal is the one that would have a problem with the (sideways) impact.That would be a slaphammer !,,,,,,,DT

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:48 am

Hello Dusty,
As you had mentioned, a card wad could help. One thing I did not mention....a .060" thick poly disc would be a plus. In addition to the PSB which did a very good job of keeping the powder gases behind the undersized bullet allowing it to make the 21" trip down the barrel undisturbed and shoot accurately as the target shows..... I also tried using just a .060" poly wad only under the bullet.

That was with smokeless and it worked very well as a flexible gas check and produced accurate shooting. WIth smokeless, the neck needed to be resized a bit longer in a special die to keep the disc from falling into the case. With b.p. that would not likely be an issue.

Perhaps something to try anyway.

Rio Conchos is another movie that has rifles similar to the '73 used in Hombre....
Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gu6hxND5Us

Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm4L3u3Nd6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... d6E#t=2086

w30wcf

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:25 am

Yes, that 200 gr has more bearing surface than the 185s... also, as John alluded to, the 200gr are softer, although they're not pure lead... but, they allow the bullet to obdurate in the bore. You may find that the harder bullets will be worse.

The only problem with keyholing bullets is that they're not consistent. You just never know when that 4" off center flyer will occur.

For ammo that I think will be used in excess of 50 yards, I always use a card wad. I have a ½" punch that I used on the waxed paper milk or half&half cartons my wife saves for me. Whether I'm using BP or smokeless, that wad acts like a gascheck... keeping the gases from flame cutting the bullet base... a condition that never helps accuracy.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:20 pm

Hey w30wcf, do you make the poly disc? Or where can I get them? I have a few thousand .030 and .060 vegetable wads that I use in my 40-60wcf cartridges. That is what I will try next. Thanks for the reminder ( Rio Conchos) that Richard Boone was one of my favorite Bad Guy's . Have you guys heard any about making gas checks from aluminum cans. I have read others say they make and use them with good results. May punch some aluminum checks out and run them under the veg. wads. ,,,DT

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:17 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:
Hawkeye2 wrote:Similar but Newman had a half mag. '76.
That is what( Wikipedia) called his rifle in Hombre! (a 76 half mag. ) But if you look close at the pictures of the rifle he is holding in the movie ,it IS a Model (1873 )Winchester half mag. round barrel. I have a few Model 1876 Winchester rifles and can tell the difference at a glance! Griff it took me a while to warm up to the half mags,now I kind of like them. Just got back from the range. First load was a soft lead bullet cast from the original Winchester mould 181gr. @.401 home brew lube 36 gr. 2ff Swiss BY WEIGHT light compression, std. Win. lp primer. At 50yd. on the bags ,,,,was ugly! all shots fired with this load key-holed. The second load except for the 38 gr. BY WEIGHT powder charge was the same . Three shot group round holes about 2" group. That was all I brought to try. Next trip I will up the charge 40gr. that will be a heavy compression load. Will try this and a couple other changes ,before I give-up on the bore! ,,,DT

Dusty,
What's your technique for getting a full 40 grains in the brass?
I can get 38 in no problem.
40 grains through the drop tube fills the brass even with the rim.
No room to even get the bullet started.

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:31 am

I would think softer bullets rather than harder. I have a '92 with a badly pitted barrel. They're more like potholes than pits. Harder lead goes here there and everywhere. Soft-medium lead shoots rather nicely, considering.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:07 am

Dusty Texian wrote:Hey w30wcf, do you make the poly disc? Or where can I get them? I have a few thousand .030 and .060 vegetable wads that I use in my 40-60wcf cartridges. That is what I will try next. Thanks for the reminder ( Rio Conchos) that Richard Boone was one of my favorite Bad Guy's . Have you guys heard any about making gas checks from aluminum cans. I have read others say they make and use them with good results. May punch some aluminum checks out and run them under the veg. wads. ,,,DT

Dusty,
I made the wads (discs) from .060" thick polyethylene sheet from Buffalo Arms.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Poly_Wad_Mat ... x?CAT=4108

I have not had any experience with the vegetable wads but hopefully they will work.

I have a .30 Caliber g.c. maker and the proper material is .014" thick aluminum sheeting to provide a snug fit on the g.c. shank.
In that application, the aluminum can material is too thin. I have read about g.c. dies that will make a g.c. (aluminum can) to fit over a plain based bullet which can then be sized to fit in the sizing die, the aluminum swaging into the base of the bullet.

If there is room for the gas to get by even a g.c. bullet, keyholes will still be the result. A flexible g.c. on the other hand (PSB ot poly disc & possibly the vegetable wads) will expand to seal the powder gases.

As an example of that, a friend had an original '76 Winchester in .45-60 caliber. The bore was the worst I had ever seen with rifiling that appeared to be missing in spots(!) and plenty of pitting. The chamber was pitted so badly that cases needed to be removed with a cleaning rod. We spent a good hour with plenty of elbow grease, patches, solvet, brushes to remove as much of the rust in the bore that we possibly could.

I had loaded some 457191 (300 gr) cast bullets over 5744 powder. As expected, groups at 25 yards were non exsistant with keyholing. Placing one .060 polyethylene disc under the bullet made a big difference with all bullets going point on into about a 3" group at 25 yards. We then tried two .060" discs (.12" total) and the rifle was grouping in the 1 1/2" range at 25 yards. Success!

We also tried the RCBS 300 G.C. bullet without the discs and groups were also non exsistant with keyholing since gas was getting around the bullet.

w30wcf

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:14 am

casastahle wrote: Dusty, What's your technique for getting a full 40 grains in the brass?
I can get 38 in no problem. 40 grains through the drop tube fills the brass even with the rim.
No room to even get the bullet started.

The Swiss powder that Dusty uses is more dense. My lot is 10% more dense than the Goex I have.

In other words, 40 grs. by weight of Swiss fits in the same space that 36 grs. of Goex occupies.

w30wcf

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:51 am

w30wcf wrote:
casastahle wrote: Dusty, What's your technique for getting a full 40 grains in the brass?
I can get 38 in no problem. 40 grains through the drop tube fills the brass even with the rim.
No room to even get the bullet started.
The Swiss powder that Dusty uses is more dense. My lot is 10% more dense than the Goex I have.

In other words, 40 grs. by weight of Swiss fits in the same space that 36 grs. of Goex occupies.

w30wcf

Thanks for the explanation John.
My 38 grains of 3F Goex gives a nice full compressed load.
Anxious to see how these rounds perform and what they Chronograph at.
After I use up my excess Goex I definitely want to try some other brands.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:32 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:Hello w30wcf thanks for the input and the pic's. That beautiful 73 half mag of yours is what I thought of when I saw this one for sale.I was thinking two ways to get this one to shoot.The bullets that were used are pure lead ,very soft. The targets show that this bullet ,bad barrel combo,likes a stiff powder charge. I will try a load with a gr. or two more powder. I think that it may bump-up the bullet a bit more.Just for a test I thought about going in the other direction,with a different approach.A hard cast bullet wheel wt. and gas check, a Smokless charge in a slower velocity. Cant loose much but a bit of lead and powder. Looks like a re-line will not be in the cards for this one. The muzzel is to small for a re-line . Will try and contact JES reboring and ask about a re-bore ,up to .44wcf.If there is meat enough for clean-up that would be a very nice option ,a fresh .44wcf bore in that rifle would soon turn into my handy rifle. Gobblerforge,you said what I did when I looked at the square holes in the target yesterday morning. Boy if you could just control that!!! I think the animal is the one that would have a problem with the (sideways) impact.That would be a slaphammer !,,,,,,,DT

Most likely it can still be relined. But, not bored straight through. The liner has to be turned down for the thin muzzle section. Then the barrel can be step drilled large at the breech end then smaller at the muzzle end. The transition would be at the octagon to round point.

Another source for vegetable cards is high temp gasket material. The type used for exhaust headers. I like the white stuff. Many auto parts stores sell it in sheets to make your own gaskets. Also, look at going with soft long bullets that are .003" to .005" overbore. Down load according.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:33 pm

Oops. When full auto on me

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:03 pm

w30wcf wrote:
casastahle wrote: Dusty, What's your technique for getting a full 40 grains in the brass?
I can get 38 in no problem. 40 grains through the drop tube fills the brass even with the rim.
No room to even get the bullet started.
The Swiss powder that Dusty uses is more dense. My lot is 10% more dense than the Goex I have.

In other words, 40 grs. by weight of Swiss fits in the same space that 36 grs. of Goex occupies.

w30wcf

w30wcf hit that right on the head! Most times I go by weight ,its just the way I do it. I weight a charge after I find the right volume and compression then weigh every so often during loading. This lot of Swiss 2ff is very dense.Thanks for the link for the poly material w30wcf.And Thanks for the tip on the High Temp gasket material Nate Kiowa Jones.Your idea of turning down the muzzel end of the liner has crossed my mind even .020 per side would do it . I had some bullets cast from my 40-82 mould, soft lead @ .404 ,252 gr. three grease groove , they are .225 longer, and .003 over the .401 std. Win. 38wcf. bullet . I loaded 5 of these bullets in the 38wcf cases over 30gr. by Weight of 2ff Swiss . That is what I could get under them and keep the OAL. on target. Never know they may shoot. Loaded 10 of the same loads as used before ,,,,With the exception of adding a .030 veg. wad under the bullet . Will test soon and report back. Thanks for all the help fellows!,,, DT

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Thank you Dusty.
I for one enjoy these classic - cartridge posts.
Especially special when talkin BP

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:29 pm

Dusty, what was the range on your second target with the extra powder? If that is 100 yards, then that is excellent.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:12 am

Hey casastahle , I enjoy comparing notes on loading and shooting the old ones. Get to hear how friends are doing from all over the world, and what thier experience are.Looking forward to hear what your bp. loads do next wk. Today Sunday I spend with the family and Thank God for that ! Monday I will try and get in some range time with a couple of the old ones. Hey Kirk D. If that were 100 yd. groups ,I would not change a thing. But those two were shot @ 50yd. I was suprised that the first group tumbling like it did was not larger. Just luck I guess ? You Guys enjoy that Cool weather up there. And remember your Pards down here Burning -up in Texas! Have a good day Amigos! ,,,,DT

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:27 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:Hey casastahle , I enjoy comparing notes on loading and shooting the old ones. Get to hear how friends are doing from all over the world, and what thier experience are.Looking forward to hear what your bp. loads do next wk. Today Sunday I spend with the family and Thank God for that ! Monday I will try and get in some range time with a couple of the old ones. Hey Kirk D. If that were 100 yd. groups ,I would not change a thing. But those two were shot @ 50yd. I was suprised that the first group tumbling like it did was not larger. Just luck I guess ? You Guys enjoy that Cool weather up there. And remember your Pards down here Burning -up in Texas! Have a good day Amigos! ,,,,DT

This has got to be the coolest Aug. I can ever remember here in PA.
I have a gut feeling this is going to be the go to outfit for all of this deer season.
And hopefully if my loads work out and I feel confident in my shooting ability
with the old model 73, it will be in hand and not the 99 or the model 70 this year.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:58 pm

Dusty, that second group at 50 yards is not bad at all, considering the bore. I had an original '73 in 44-40 with a horrible sewer pipe for a bore and found that the groups tightened up significantly if I put a half sheet of single ply toilet paper loosely rolled and folded, on top of the powder before seating the bullet. The TP acts as a flexible gas check. I've not tried the PSB that w30wcf mentions, but it sounds like it would work even better than TP, but TP is handy. If you can get five shot groups of less than 4" at 100 yards, then I'd say you are ready for hunting.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:41 am

Question for you guys that Chronograph your BP cartridges.
1. How far from the end of the barrel do you set it up?
2. What do you use to protect and cover the sensors with from the BP debris?
I was thinking clear plastic shipping tape over the censor windows.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:02 am

I do this a lot with my .45s. I put the chrony at 10 ft. I put nothing over the windows. Every few years I clean them but that's hardly a big deal.

What is more important is protecting the closest sensor from the wad and grease cookie (if you have one). They have enough weight that they can eventually do damage with repeated hits. I simply tape a pieces of cardboard over the closest end of the unit and I'm good to go.

Brent

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:06 am

Okay cool, thanks for the good idea Brent.
I never had or used one.
I should have it here in a day or so.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:58 am

I use nothing to protect the sensors and I've never cleaned them over at least 6 years of use. I do tip it upside down when I'm finished to dump out any powder kernels. I usually set it up about 8 feet away, but this past Sunday was using it just 5 feet from the muzzle with no misreads.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:58 am

Good info about the chronoghraph use. I have one on order ,just left the range tried the loads I mentioned above. The 38gr. 2ff Swiss ,180 gr. soft bullet and veg. wad did OK about 3" @ 50yd. not great! The 252 gr. bullet over 30gr. 2ff Swiss looked like I was throwing clothes irons at the target! would not stabilize at all! Shooting was @ 50yd. Will try the poly wads next. ,,,DT

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:51 pm

I will be very interested in how the poly wads do.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:22 am

Hey KirkD ,should get the poly wads in soon and give them a try. I think the poly wads should help. I was not suprised that the long 252 gr. bullets did not stabilize ,with the ROT of the 38wcf. I did think the vegtable wad under the 180 gr. bullet would have did a bit better than it did.I have assembled five loads , 36 gr. 2ff Swiss one single square of toilet paper under the 180gr. soft lead bullet cast in the Winchester mould @ .401". Will test and report back ASAP.,,,DT

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:15 pm

Finally took the old 38wcf out to the range today. I tried the test loads with toilet paper under the bullet and over the 2ff Swiss bp. @ 50yd. these loads tumbled real bad. No surprise this old barrel is in bad shape. I tried the .060"poly wad under the 180gr. cast bullet and over the 2ff Swiss bp. This load was a surprise in the good way. Finally the old 73 shot a straight bullet ,round hole and went where it was pointed. Will now load up more of the same load and do a bit more testing. Even if I never shoot the old gun much there is just something in me that will not rest until I get a gun to shoot or prove to myself that it is hopeless. This one was almost blessed as Hopeless! Laughed at the range today with another shooter ,saying all our good shooting guns are in the safe and the problem guns get the most attention. I am sure others can relate. Thanks w30wcf for the poly wad idea ,It Worked!!!! ,,,DT

Richardx · Post by **Richardx** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:15 pm

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/6/63/ ... bre_08.jpg

Not sure how to post the picture but here is a link to Paul Newman in HOMBRE with his '76 half magazine.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:07 pm

It really has nothing to do with this getting the old 1873 38wcf to shoot. But here is a close-up of Paul Newman holding his 1873 Winchester that most want to call a 1876 ! Ok call it a 76. But I think most that know the difference will agree that the movie rifle is a 73 Winchester.,,,,DT