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Yesterday I went to the range with my S&W M10 to try out my work up loads, using the Hornady 158gr SWCHP. I noticed as I approached the max load, that there was a very noticeable crack in the sound of the muzzle report. Much more so than what the muzzle report sounds like from my general purpose load. The leading was not bad, but it did take more effort to clean out than when shooting cast bullets. I am going to be settling on a charge weight that is 1 tenth of a grain below max, you will see why when you see the target. Besides 1 tenth of a grain won't amount to much in the grand scheme of things anyway. I also dug around the sand/sawdust berm to locate a fired bullet. I did not save it but was impressed with the way it expanded.
Unscientific I know, but I have found some jacketed bullets that won't expand after impacting the berm. All shooting took place at 10yd with a two handed hold, and in single action slow fire (5 rounds). Because the charge weights that I was using are higher than most current manuals show I will not post them on a public forum. I did not expeience any pressure signs at all(flattened primers etc..). The charge weights used to be used in the older manuals, if anyone wants info for the load then contact me by PM/ email. If you email me make sure you RE the "FBI" Load as I will delete any unrecognized emails.
P.S. You should have seen the looks on the faces of the two guys shooting a Glock .40S&W when they looked at my target. They weren't sneering at my M10 after that as they did when I first showed up.
Something to try with the soft Hornady bullets. Get some Lee liquid alox lube and tumble them in it. I've been doing this with my Speer and Remington swagged lead bullets and it helps tremendously. The lube they put on these bullets just doesn't seem to work as well as it should.
I've noticed that a lot of folks who shoot bottom feeders sneer at revolvers and revolver shooters. Till we out shoot them. Not sure why or where they got the idea bottom feeders were better than revolvers, but we can put 'em in their place .
Regarding the powder charges: I have several that I've used for many years that are no longer shown in the current loading manuals. I've always considered it this way; if they were good and safe then, they still are.
Using the old caution to back down from the max charge and work up from there, I've never found an old load to be dangerous.
Regarding the powder charges: I have several that I've used for many years that are no longer shown in the current loading manuals. I've always considered it this way; if they were good and safe then, they still are.
Using the old caution to back down from the max charge and work up from there, I've never found an old load to be dangerous.
I have found the same to be true as well. Plus some may find as I did in my work up, that the best load may not be the top charge weight but one slightly lower. Thanks for the tip about the Lee Liquid Alox, however the leading was not that severe. I was a little nervous as this was my first time using swaged bullets. So I was looking for leading as well as pressure signs as I worked up to the max charge. I have heard of all of the horror stories involved with these bullets. But I think it is from folks who push them beyond the bullets design limits.
There is one more thing I've found about the Hornadys. If the throats on your revolvers is on the large size, they will lead worse. I have many hundreds of these bullets loaded to standard velocities in 38 Special cases from the late 1970s.
I was shooting a lot of 38 SPCL and .357 Mag back then and kept quite a supply.
But the throats on my Mdl 28 are a bit on the large size and even at 38 Spcl velocities they lead.
I don't have many, not really sure if I have any loaded to +P velocities, so I can't remember if they leaded for me at that level.
I just loaded the 158 HPs over 5 gr. of Unique and got the results I wanted. I prefer the Hornady to the Speer swaged bullets. However, the Speer does better in my .357 Maximum's .38 Extra Long duplication load. You just never know.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
My 2 "go to" loads for the 38 Spcl are 5.0grs Unique and 4.3grs Win 231. Both are proven loads.
Have you ever chronographed the 5.0gr Unique load? I've always been curious about real world results of it.
I just loaded up all the .38 cases I had on hand, got 8 GI cans with 800 rounds each in them. Used 5.5 gr. Unique or 4.5 gr. 231. Those M10's can be some of the most accurate of all the S&W revolvers, that is why I have a 3" nickle M10 in my gun bag, with my Beretta M9 and my Glock 30, working in a not so nice area of Norfolk, VA. I love the 158 FBI load, be it WW or RP. A batch of Federals we had in the '80's had bad primers and it kind of soured me on 'em, being my life might depend on them on the street; however, I'm sure it was just a bad batch. I remember one account of a city police officer somewhere had to dispatch a polar bear in a zoo using the FBI load, 1 shot to the head and the b'ar was DTR.
That being said, practice with your reloads, but buy a box or 2 of factory loads for serious social purposed. Don't give a prosecutor or detective who may have ulterior motives any fodder to build a case on you if you shoot a thug with handloads. Might never happen, but why add anything to the risk?
My two go to loads is now the one posted above, and a 158gr cast SWC over 4.6gr of Unique.
That being said, practice with your reloads, but buy a box or 2 of factory loads for serious social purposed. Don't give a prosecutor or detective who may have ulterior motives any fodder to build a case on you if you shoot a thug with handloads. Might never happen, but why add anything to the
Well said and that is why I made up that handload, for practice since the price of ammo is getting outrageous. I will also use that load in the woods as well. It is nice to see that there are still some .38 SPL advocates/shooters out there. It really is a versaitle round, more than most realize. It may not be the latest and greatest but it works and is accurate. And as we all know it is accuracy and adequate penetration that wins. Power/ caliber size can't make up for poor marksmanship ever.
I've noticed that a lot of folks who shoot bottom feeders sneer at revolvers and revolver shooters. Till we out shoot them. Not sure why or where they got the idea bottom feeders were better than revolvers, but we can put 'em in their place .
Joe
I've noticed that too, and like you said UNTIL they get outshot. Last time I was at the range I was shooting my 22-4 45acp @ 25ft. Had a group that look alot like the one in the pic. Not a word was said after it was fired.
Something to try with the soft Hornady bullets. Get some Lee liquid alox lube and tumble them in it. I've been doing this with my Speer and Remington swagged lead bullets and it helps tremendously. The lube they put on these bullets just doesn't seem to work as well as it should.
Joe
Good advice. With a thin coat of Alox, I am driving 158gr and 240gr swchp Hornadys to 1200 fps in .357 and .44 Magnum. What little leading is produced is easily stripped out with a dry brush.
336a, I can't help but wonder if the crack you heard was your bullet going supersonic, (1065fps @ sea level). Use the LEE Liquid Alox on your bullets...............I've read of guys pushing theirs to 1100 after the treatment with no leading. jd45
jd45 it very well could have been going supersonic, I don't own a chrony yet , so I don't know for sure. I'm going to kind of clue everyone in to what the charge weight is without posting it. If anyone has a Lyman load book notice what the max charge weight is with Unique for a 158gr bullet, and subtract a tenth of a grain. A poster over at another forum just chronoed the full charge out of a new S&W 638 ( MIM version ) Bodyguard, and had five rounds chrono over 900fps. One of his shots sped across the screens at an amazing 940fps.
Mr. Sundles has noted that new production S&W revolvers shoot faster than the older ones. So that coupled with the 4"barrel of my M10 I very possibly could be breaking 1000fps and doing it with safe +P pressures.
My 2 "go to" loads for the 38 Spcl are 5.0grs Unique and 4.3grs Win 231. Both are proven loads.
Have you ever chronographed the 5.0gr Unique load? I've always been curious about real world results of it.
Joe
I can't remember, let me look and see if I recorded it...
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Much more so than what the muzzle report sounds like from my general purpose load. The leading was not bad, but it did take more effort to clean out than when shooting cast bullets. I am going to be settling on a charge weight that is 1 tenth of a grain below max, you will see why when you see the target. Besides 1 tenth of a grain won't amount to much in the grand scheme of things anyway. I also dug around the sand/sawdust berm to locate a fired bullet. I did not save it but was impressed with the way it expanded. 
They weren't sneering at my M10 after that as they did when I first showed up. 
You just never know.
, so I don't know for sure. I'm going to kind of clue everyone in to what the charge weight is without posting it. If anyone has a Lyman load book notice what the max charge weight is with Unique for a 158gr bullet, and subtract a tenth of a grain.