Ok guys, how fast can a 165 gr WW Spire pt w/GC go?

[Old Time Hunter]

Had a terrible day yesterday at the range, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn! I was shooting some .311 sized Spire Points cast from wheel weights with Hornady gas checks and 40+ grains of H4895 behind them in a 1895 (cira 1925) Winchester. At a hundred yards couldn't hit a 2' X 3' paper target! One of the other shooters asked if I was shooting BP, they really smoked too! Anyways, set up the chrono at 15' and shot ten more, averaged 2470 fps with an ED of over 200 fps! I'm guessing that the bullets are coming apart, any other ideas?

Shot a few factory 150 gr (Winchester) and grouped a 3" pattern on the paper, they mic'd at .3085 and spit out the muzzle at 2700+fps.

Guy next to me says my cast are too fast.

[Tycer]

You should be water quenching those to go that fast. They will go that fast. A pinch of Magnum birdshot per 10# will help them take a hard set. And wait a week or three for max hardness to set in. Prolly need to scrub that bore too iffin you shot jacketed bullets too.

[Andrew]

You should be water quenching those to go that fast. They will go that fast. A pinch of Magnum birdshot per 10# will help them take a hard set. And wait a week or three for max hardness to set in. Prolly need to scrub that bore too iffin you shot jacketed bullets too.

Really? I've never heard of that before.

[Sixgun]

Way too fast with WW alloy. Your stipping the bullet. After reaching around 2000 fps, other variables come into effect. At those speeds, you need perfect sizing, a hard alloy, a perfect bore condition, and equally important, a high quality lube. In the old '95, stay to around 1800 or below. WW alloy will work fine up that velocity but..........sizing is very important, even at 1000 fps.. Slug your bore and size a thou. or two over.

My old 1916 produced 1895 in '06 and other '95's in 30-40 and 35 I have love that 1700-1800 velocity range. Its fast enough and is easy on the brass and the gun. (even my shoulder! )----------Sixgun

[Griff]

When castin' my gaschecked bullets for the .30-30 factory equivalent loads, I add one ingot of linotype for every 6 ingots of WW. Gets me around 23Bhn, plenty hard and accurate. The only time I've chronographed them, they averaged 2140fps.

[Leverluver]

Don't know what mold you are coming from but a "true" spitzer like the old Lyman 323366, 311397 or 311365 never did work worth a dang. Some RCBS molds cast what looks like a spitzer but it is just a bore rider with a pointed tip. I guess the argument could be made that those are spitzers but I wouldn't call it that. In any case, you will have more success with the pointed RCBS style than any spitzers that Lyman made. If you are shooting a true cast spitzer, you have a long road ahead of you.

[Tycer]

It is my understanding that the antimony and arsenic content of wheel weights has been reduced to the point that what used to take two days to achieve max strength of the crystalline structure now takes as much as two weeks.

Adding the magnum shot will add antimony and arsenic, probably enough to speed up the hardening to two days, but if you add tin for better mold fill-out, that time increases again.

I size my hardened bullets soon after casting, before they fully harden, as the process of sizing may work-soften the outside of the bullet. I definitely size before oven heat treating.


http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

[Tycer]

Don't know what mold you are coming from but a "true" spitzer like the old Lyman 323366, 311397 or 311365 never did work worth a dang. Some RCBS molds cast what looks like a spitzer but it is just a bore rider with a pointed tip. I guess the argument could be made that those are spitzers but I wouldn't call it that. In any case, you will have more success with the pointed RCBS style than any spitzers that Lyman made. If you are shooting a true cast spitzer, you have a long road ahead of you.

Perhaps "Beagling" the nose of the mold with foil tape would fatten them up enough to get them to engrave without exceeding the overall length the rifle's action will allow.

[Leverluver]

If it is a bore rider, beagling might help. If it is a true spitzer, you can beagle till the cows come home.

[Old Time Hunter]

Used a Lee CTL312-160-2R mould...really for a 7.62 X 39/54, sized 'em to .311 w/Gas Check. Birnell tested at 16-18, straight WW alloy, water quenched, seasoned 2 weeks. Use 'em in my Lee Enfield (.311), M-N's(.311), '95, and a .308 Savage (size to .309), also for poops and giggles in my .30-30. But this is the first I loaded the .30-06. By the way the '95 slugs at .3085, still shiney and all. The .30-30 is darn accurate with 'em, but I only use 30 grains of H4198, still get 2100 fps out of her though. The Lee I use 36 grains, the M-N's 37 grains, the .308 37 grains...all can hit the paper in verying degrees (the M-N's are a little loose). My buddy loads 'em in his .30-40Krag, but with 34 grains...gun was made in '02(1902). His '95 slugs at .309+ and the bore is pretty worn. Thing will knock a gnat off a frogs nose at 100 yards.

[Tycer]

Maybe oven treat a batch.

[Griff]

...One of the other shooters asked if I was shooting BP, they really smoked too!

Sounds like a failure of your lube. What were you using?

[Old Time Hunter]

Tumbled in liquid alox.

[Griff]

I'd recommend somthing like Thompson's Blue Angel lube. It's made for faster flight without being burned, and still flows well out of a lubrisizer. I think you need to use a heater to get the Red Angel lube.