Wildcat cartridges

[wvfarrier]

I have a couple 1886's and I am pondering having reeders do something. I want to replicate the ballistics of the 338 marlin express but with readily available brass (since 338me brass is unobtainium). I was thinking of basing it off a 45-70, trimmed to 1.89" with a 25 degree shoulder and specifically throated for the 200 grain FTX. If my quikload and strelok data is correct I can get 2500+ fps with a 24" barrel and be right at 44,500 psi. The G1 BC of that projectile is .430 so my max point blank range would be 247 yards (ish). That would also keep my COAL essentially the same as the original 45-70 cartridge as the FTX is a pretty long projectile.

Now, I am by no means a smart fella so I wanted to see what the great minds on here think.

[samsi]

Sounds like a necked down .348 (Improved?) would fill the bill, except for the readily available brass part. I've always wondered why Winchester didn't expand the Model 71 chamberings with the .348 blown out to .358 and .375. Always thought the .375-.348 wildcat would be nifty.

[marlinman93]

First thing I'd check is price and availability of bullets for the .338 caliber. Of course you'll also need to narrow it down to flat points to work safely in a tube magazine. I personally wouldn't choose this caliber for that reason. I'd go with something like a shortened .38-56 cartridge if I was building a wildcat. Huge selection of bullets, and a much more versatile rifle once it's completed.
But I'd also look at the cost of custom reamers, and custom dies before I did any wildcat! I'd bet the reamer alone will be in the $250-$300 range, and a die set more than that.

[earlmck]

I would think that would get the job done for you allright. There was a while there when 45/70 brass was not so "readily available" either, but Starline made a run recently and I laid in 300 new cases so am feeling much better about 45/70 world.

Go for it!

[LeverGunner]

Sounds like a necked down .348 (Improved?) would fill the bill, except for the readily available brass part. I've always wondered why Winchester didn't expand the Model 71 chamberings with the .348 blown out to .358 and .375. Always thought the .375-.348 wildcat would be nifty.

I've been thinking that exact thing, about the .375/.348. I'm not aware of any wildcats of that ilk though. Do you know of any?

[yooper2]

I shot a 375-348 Improved once at the Ottawa Sportsmans Club back home da UP. Basically a 450 Alaskan necked down. Fella who owned it was from Montana and it was built on a Browning 71. He was loading 300gr Hornady round noses with the exposed lead filed flat. He claimed big numbers but I didn't see it run over a chronograph. Beat the bejeezus out of me though!


Eric

[wvfarrier]

I would think that would get the job done for you allright. There was a while there when 45/70 brass was not so "readily available" either, but Starline made a run recently and I laid in 300 new cases so am feeling much better about 45/70 world.

Go for it!

I have a couple thousand pieces

[blackhawk44]

I suggest you do a couple of things before you get too deep into this project. First find a copy of Cartridges of the World (library or used book store) and research both the antique and wildcat sections. You may find what you need or something similar that might work. Secondly, check the online list of cartridges that CH4D makes dies for and google research some calibers that may be about what you were thinking of. Just a suggestion and may save you some time and money.

[blackhawk44]

I forgot. While at the library see if they have a copy if Wildcat Cartridges Combo, editions I &II, Its a collection of articles published in Handloader magazine, from recently back to 1966. Just a suggestion.

[fordwannabe]

Call me silly but isnt that just a hotrodded 33WCF? 200 grain .338 bullet based on the 45-70????

[4t5]

Sound about right.

[JFE]

The 338 Marlin express is essentially a shortened and improved 45/70 case, but with a smaller rim. If you are using an 1886 action you have a much longer LOA (2.8” vs 2.55”) you can use and simply form 338 ME using 45/70 brass. As mentioned the big problem is ensuring the availability of suitable 338 pills.

[JFE]

Call me silly but isnt that just a hotrodded 33WCF? 200 grain .338 bullet based on the 45-70????

Good idea. As mentioned, check CH4D’s list of dies they make. There might be something suitable like an improved 33 WCF in their extensive list.

[mickbr]

Reeders as in Gary Reeder? If so I just emailed Gary about a project and he replied he isnt working on anything but revolvers for the forseeable future.

[Drawdown]

Call me silly but isnt that just a hotrodded 33WCF? 200 grain .338 bullet based on the 45-70????

IDK the possibilities of the project, never any interest in wildcat cartridges. But this sounds close to right to me, and the 33wcf is IMO for the my use if I had an 86, a 33wcf duplicate but probably slightly better, using that ftx bullet? Be a very worthy product to come up with!

[WIN188633WCFTD]

Sounds like quite a venture! I love the 1886 as my name suggests.I own a 1908 1886 in 33WCF. If your 1886s aren't chambered for this round, it would be much easier to get an 86 barrel and roll. IMHO that is a lit of money and hassle for minimal gains. If you have 45-70 brass, it's easy to anneal and neck down to 338, thus making the 33WCF. The 33WCF will do 2200 with a 200gr bullet. The animal won't know the difference in 2-300fps when hit. That said, this is the joy of wildcatting. You can be as creative as want. I would just be cautious with wildcat pressures in a vintage action. If your 86s are new production it's less of a concern. Happy building!

[wvfarrier]

All mine is a newer model but yeah, after talking to Gary Reeder at length, it does not seem to be worth it. The 33 wcf had appealed to me but the ballistics are a little underwhelming. I was hoping to achieve the ballistics of 338 marlin but it just does not seem to be in the cards.

[348win]

I never used hawk bullets, but I'm looking at them for reference right now

30 cal - Flat Points

150gr
170gr
190gr

How bout a: .308 - 33wcf

Idk what I would name it,
But I would consider it in an Extra Light 1886 if you don't need 348win power......

Now your somewhere at 30-06 ballistics right....
I reckon the 06' is the gold standard of what all other cartridges are compared to, many others will agree



DO IT and let us know how it goes.


This reason I suggest 30cal is the 338 is limited to 180gr & 200gr FP bullets, the later being standard

I think it would be out of line to fit an 8mm (0.323") barrel to an American Cartridge

30 cal FP bullets are plentiful for the 30-30
And if your gonna carry a heavy rifle like an 1886 it better have 30-06 horsepower or you'd be better served w a 92' framed pistol caliber or a lighter 30-30 offering 94'/64'

[348win]

I have a suggestion to share once I can pm on this site if you consider going through w the project in 30 cal

[Drawdown]

I never used hawk bullets, but I'm looking at them for reference right now

30 cal - Flat Points

150gr
170gr
190gr

How bout a: .308 - 33wcf

Idk what I would name it,
But I would consider it in an Extra Light 1886 if you don't need 348win power......

Now your somewhere at 30-06 ballistics right....
I reckon the 06' is the gold standard of what all other cartridges are compared to, many others will agree



DO IT and let us know how it goes.


This reason I suggest 30cal is the 338 is limited to 180gr & 200gr FP bullets, the later being standard

I think it would be out of line to fit an 8mm (0.323") barrel to an American Cartridge

30 cal FP bullets are plentiful for the 30-30
And if your gonna carry a heavy rifle like an 1886 it better have 30-06 horsepower or you'd be better served w a 92' framed pistol caliber or a lighter 30-30 offering 94'/64'

Like I said I'm no wildcat man, so not trying to steer you in any way. But if this was my project, this suggestion would, Ring the Bell, Bingo! Already love everything. 308, and with the case capacity and all the .308 bullets to choose. I'd love this idea! Just think of the uses of 180gr-220gr. I'd call it .308BB Brush Buster. Done read to many testimonies from Phil Shoemaker and few other guides, concerning elk, moose, bears. They've seen too many wound channels comparing the outcome between several 338's vs 30-06's, when correct bullets are used? Ain't enough difference to warrant the 338! Not at usual hunting ranges!