On The Dark Side Of Things

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:37 pm

Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon .44

IMG_4091.JPG

It's a big ole thing. Makes a SAA look like a pocket pistol!

IMG_4116.JPG

Shooting from a rest.

dragoon1.JPG

.457" ball over 40 gr. FFFg Black

IMG_4187.JPG

.457" ball over chamber full of Pyrodex P

IMG_4194.JPG

Heel bullet

IMG_4191.JPG

Heel bullet over 40 gr. FFFg Black

IMG_4192.JPG

Heel bullet over 45 gr. FFFg Black

IMG_4193.JPG

dragoon4.JPG

dragoon6.JPG

Shooting cap and ball revolvers at the range, you don't shoot as many rounds as with cartridge guns but it definitely is different!

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:54 pm

Jim, that 3rd Model Dragoon wants to shoot for you, doesn't it? That heel bullet over 45 grains of FFFg is getting close to what I assume is your point of aim, and that's holy grail country with any of the old Colts that usually shoot a foot high. (Aim at his belt buckle and you'll get a hit.)
How do you like to clean your BP revolvers?

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:04 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:54 pm How do you like to clean your BP revolvers?

I don't like to clean them!'

Depends how dirty they are ... how much I have shot them. Today I did the boiling water thing .. stripped the gun first ... oiled it up afterwards. During that I ran a brass brush through the barrel and used a patch on a rod to wipe the chambers clean. Oiled the nipple threads. I wanted to work on the trigger so it wasn't a big deal. Sometimes I use Windex and spray 'em down and then wipe and oil them. It's best to look carefully inside them.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:21 pm

Is that the Windex with vinegar that Mike Venturino likes?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:36 pm

I love this post!

Jim, is that heel-based bullet a Lee Precision bullet? Have you tried the Eras-Gone Walker/Dragoon bullet?

Great shooting!!!

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:07 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:21 pm Is that the Windex with vinegar that Mike Venturino likes?

I haven't tried that yet. I just grabbed a bottle out of the kitchen and ran off to the shop with it real fast before the women-folk saw where it went.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:10 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:36 pm I love this post!

Jim, is that heel-based bullet a Lee Precision bullet? Have you tried the Eras-Gone Walker/Dragoon bullet?

Great shooting!!!

No. The heel bullet was the creation of my late Dad. The .457" round ball mold was his. It's a 2-cavity mold. On one cavity he just reamed out the mold so that it made a heel bullet. I tried it in the Dragoon cylinder and it's a perfect fit.

I have seen Eras-Gone stuff and have a friend who is using the Walker bullet. Looks good.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:14 pm

I'm more impressed with the photography than you shooting....but that ain't bad either Jimbo! ---006

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:20 pm

Sixgun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:14 pm I'm more impressed with the photography than you shooting....but that ain't bad either Jimbo! ---006

Well I thank you, my friend. I wasn't too impressed by my shooting, but I see the gun has potential. I worked on the trigger this afternoon and next will be the sights. That little V notch ain't cutting it for these old eyes. I may put a new wider front sight and square up the back sight ... or mount one on the barrel ...

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:43 pm

JimT wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:10 pm
Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:36 pm I love this post!

Jim, is that heel-based bullet a Lee Precision bullet? Have you tried the Eras-Gone Walker/Dragoon bullet?

Great shooting!!!
No. The heel bullet was the creation of my late Dad. The .457" round ball mold was his. It's a 2-cavity mold. On one cavity he just reamed out the mold so that it made a heel bullet. I tried it in the Dragoon cylinder and it's a perfect fit.

I have seen Eras-Gone stuff and have a friend who is using the Walker bullet. Looks good.

Very cool!

I have a bunch of the period correct molds Mark Hubbs (Eras Gone By) has had made by Lee Precision. I really, really like them. I made a bunch of paper cartridges for the dragoons, but have not had a chance to try them out yet. I may need to relieve the loading area to use them (like the originals), or load the cylinder off gun. Your post is inspiring!

BTW, there are reproductions of the Third Model dragoon with a better rear sight mounted on the barrel. I have one. A vast improvement, but the sights are still challenging!

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:29 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:43 pm BTW, there are reproductions of the Third Model dragoon with a better rear sight mounted on the barrel. I have one. A vast improvement, but the sights are still challenging!

I have seen those. Thought about mounting one on this gun but not sure I want to do that. I will work on the hammer notch sight first. And yes .. at my age all iron sights seem to be challenging.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:49 am

Deleted.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:17 am

1.JPG

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:13 pm

Have mercy!

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:57 pm

Deleted.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:48 pm

The Walker's and Dragoons are neat, but I much prefer Colt's Belt Model of 1851!

IMG_0231.JPG

And for a little shooting flavor:
https://youtu.be/5N1KV-aoemc

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:43 pm

I've had the '51 and they are a neat handling gun. I have also had the Remington 1858 .44 and while it was a good gun, the grip always felt strange. I used it for hunting and it was accurate and powerful. My personal preference for a belt gun is the 1861 Navy. I believe I would cut the barrel to 4 1/2" or 5" any more ... but that's just a personal thing.

1861 Navy.JPG

EDIT .. my Remington 1858

Remington-Javelina.JPG

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:08 pm

Deleted.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:21 am

Deleted.

Twodot · Post by **Twodot** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:59 pm

if you like fluted cylinders:

1862 Colt Police.jpg

..

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:09 pm

IMG_2603.JPG

colt1862Police-4.jpg

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:12 pm

Back about 40 years ago, I knew a shooter who had a 3rd Model Dragoon with a shoulder stock and barrel leaf sight. Can not recall the manufacturer. For me, it was interesting experience shooting a revolver with a shoulder stock. If I recall correctly, the revolver shined when loaded with a full house charge of FFFg and a bullet. With round balls, it was a "so-so" shooter. A few times I thought about purchasing one, but I was more than satisfied with my Ruger Old Army.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:50 pm

I happen to have one of those 3rd models with a shoulder stock and folding barrel sight:

It also has another unique feature, a 16" barrel!

It was made in Italy by Armi San Marco.

Shasta

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:53 pm

Shasta wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:50 pm I happen to have one of those 3rd models with a shoulder stock and folding barrel sight:
It also has another unique feature, a 16" barrel!
It was made in Italy by Armi San Marco.
Shasta

Have you chronographed that long barrel?

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:47 pm

I have had this long barreled revolver for over two years and I haven't even fired it yet.

Too many toys I guess.

Shasta

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:58 pm

Shasta wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:47 pm I have had this long barreled revolver for over two years and I haven't even fired it yet.

Too many toys I guess.

Shasta

I'm sorta different. As soon as I get a gun .. and as soon as I am someplace where I can shoot it, I fire a couple shots. Even if it's just into the ground.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:13 am

Well that surely is some "experimental archaeology" waiting to happen if you ever get around to it, Shasta! Remember, you MUST report your results here for scientific review.

junkbug · Post by **junkbug** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:01 pm

I have been on the lookout for an Armi-San Marco Third Model Dragoon with a leaf rear sight for a while. They are not often seen, and expensive when found. I would be interested in making up one for myself. Have to find a suitable rear sight to do so.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Wed May 03, 2023 1:46 pm

JimT wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:53 pm
Shasta wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:50 pm I happen to have one of those 3rd models with a shoulder stock and folding barrel sight:
It also has another unique feature, a 16" barrel!
It was made in Italy by Armi San Marco.
Shasta
Have you chronographed that long barrel?

Dredging up an old thread here because I finally got around to shooting and chronographing my 16" barreled 3rd Model Dragoon revolver. I first loaded each chamber with a 30 gr. Pyrodex pellet, a felt wad, a 138 gr. .451" round ball, and topped it with a bit of grease. At 25 yards it shot a group just under 2" at an average velocity of 1,051 fps.
I then tried 35 gr. of Goex FFFg expecting higher velocity, but surprisingly it was nearly the same at 1,050 fps and group size was also nearly identical.

For comparison, I shot the same loads through my 7 1/2" Ruger Old Army using a 144 gr. .457" ball. The Pyrodex load ran 900 fps on the nose, while the Goex FFFg went 870. I was very surprised that the 5 gr. lighter Pyrodex load actually was a little faster that the FFFg. Both loads grouped around 3".

Shasta

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed May 03, 2023 4:49 pm

THANKS!!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed May 03, 2023 5:07 pm

Thanks Shasta.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Thu May 04, 2023 1:44 pm

John Taffin told me that Hodgdon's Triple Seven FFFg gave him the highest velocities of all the powders he tried. It gave good accuracy also. I have a pound of it and am gonna try it as soon as I am able.

se7en.JPG

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Thu May 04, 2023 3:57 pm

Jim, Othias over at C&Rsenal on youtube swears by Ballistol for cleaning all kinds of stuff, especially black powder firearms. Nontoxic and can be used on wood too. Softens BP fouling and prevents rust from forming. BTW, Ballistol is one of the sponsors of C&Rsenal. HTH

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Thu May 04, 2023 4:52 pm

1894cfan wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 3:57 pm Jim, Othias over at C&Rsenal on youtube swears by Ballistol for cleaning all kinds of stuff, especially black powder firearms. Nontoxic and can be used on wood too. Softens BP fowling and prevents rust from forming. BTW, Ballistol is one of the sponsors of C&Rsenal. HTH

Sounds like it's worth looking at. Thanks.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu May 04, 2023 5:18 pm

JimT wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 4:52 pm
1894cfan wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 3:57 pmJim, Othias over at C&Rsenal on youtube swears by Ballistol for cleaning all kinds of stuff, especially black powder firearms. Nontoxic and can be used on wood too. Softens BP fowling and prevents rust from forming. BTW, Ballistol is one of the sponsors of C&Rsenal. HTH
Sounds like it's worth looking at. Thanks.

I'm going to say that vast majority of BP shooters in CAS recommend it. Lots of them use in their formulation of "moose milk".

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Thu May 04, 2023 6:39 pm

Deleted.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 05, 2023 8:34 am

Jim,

What does a .457" round ball weigh?

Many summers ago I bought a mil-surp rifle. The instruction book said to use window cleaner with ammonia to clean the bore if using corrosive primed ammo.
Well, it worked, and I had no bad effects from rust at all.
So being lazy and hating using hot soapy water to clean black powder fouling I bought a bottle of Windex with ammonia and cleaned my Ruger and Uberti with it after shooting black powder. It worked perfectly. No rust anywhere.

Joe

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri May 05, 2023 9:14 am

J Miller wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:34 am Jim,

What does a .457" round ball weigh?

Many summers ago I bought a mil-surp rifle. The instruction book said to use window cleaner with ammonia to clean the bore if using corrosive primed ammo.
Well, it worked, and I had no bad effects from rust at all.
So being lazy and hating using hot soapy water to clean black powder fouling I bought a bottle of Windex with ammonia and cleaned my Ruger and Uberti with it after shooting black powder. It worked perfectly. No rust anywhere.

Joe

.457 ball weighs somewheres around 145 gr. depending upon the alloy.

I have used Windex years ago and have been using it since a re-started shooting cap n ball revolvers. It works well.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 05, 2023 11:08 am

Jim,

Thanks.

Joe

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Fri May 05, 2023 7:05 pm

I've been using Ballistol for years. I think it smells vaguely like Australian black licorice. I'm a big fan.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat May 06, 2023 10:03 am

I use ballistol for a long time, but the idea of diluting it never occurred to me. I've been using it with a toothpick applying a drop at a time in the internals, i need to try Ray's formula.

I use windex as a cleaning agent too. it wipes up oil smudges and dirt and carbon as well as the road grime on car glass, and bumpers, etc.

good stuff