Definition of a levergun

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coyote nose
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Definition of a levergun

Post by coyote nose »

Sure hope this wasn't covered here before, I tried a search and found nothing on it.
Here we are, levergun lovers. We talk and write about them all the time. BUT, how do you define a levergun? Say a person who knows NOTHING at all about guns asks you for a working definition of what YOU consider a levergun to be. What would you say? Generally, it seems single shot falling blocks are not considered by most of us to be leverguns, even though a lever may actuate them. Thus, to exclude these guns (stevens favorites, ballard single shots, etc) how would you define them?? As i first thought about this I quickly realized "...2 piece stocks..." in the definition is out (Savage 99 and others). I came up with something saying " ....with a rearward moving bolt..." in the definition to exclude the falling blocks, but then the Ithaca 49 with its martini action I would consider a levergun (it looks like one :) ) Also, the winchester 1887 shotgun with its pivoting block negates this in the definition. Hmmm, how about something like how it must have "...a fully enclosed finger lever..." which would exclude most of the falling blocks...but not the ballards. What about saying it must be a repeater? Well, the Ithaca 49 is a single shot. I guess i would have to use the word "usually" a lot in my definition, but I am trying to avoid that. I want a concrete definition. Wikipedia weasels out of it by saying that the term lever action is sometimes applied to falling blocks like the martini-henry or the Ruger number 1. I just dont consider them lever action guns (even tho I like them). Opinions anyone??
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Old Savage
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

Well now there are different opinions here. Some say it must be a leveraction repeater. I say if the action is operated by a lever as we now it the rifle is a levergun. That to me includes the Sharps, Ruger No 1s and Winchester 1885s. By the way, Matthew Quigley agrees with me - "it's a breech loading lever action". :)

You'll hear other ideas here. We did this not too long ago.
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lever-4-life
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by lever-4-life »

O.S. +1
Break on through to the other side!!!
Bruce Scott
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Bruce Scott »

From the SAAMI Glossary:

"ACTION, LEVER
A design wherein the breech mechanism is cycled by an external lever generally below the receiver. "


That would cleary include all the underlever single shots, however, I feel that 'levergun' to most people means
an under lever operated repeating rifle. No reason to exclude those other lever actions from discussion here though :wink:
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20cows
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by 20cows »

No reason to exclude those other lever actions from discussion here though
I don't recall anybody objecting to the tales of Big Nosed Kate.
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TedH
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by TedH »

A repeating rifle that uses a lever to cycle ammunition from a magazine into the chamber.
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Ysabel Kid
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Mentally, when someone says "lever-action", the image that pops into my mind is the Winchester 1892 - being held by John Wayne. As you suspected, this topic comes up every year or so, and it always a fun one to discuss.

After being here for a couple years, I now break my own definition of leverguns into two parts - "classic" and "general". For me a "classic levergun" is a repeating long arm with a magazine under the barrel. The operation of the lever feeds a round into the chamber and cocks an external hammer. After you've fired the round, cylcing the lever through one full motion will eject the empty case, cock the hammer, and feed a live round into the chamber and lock it.

For me, a "general leveraction" is any gun that has some function actuated by the movement of a lever. A Spencer or a Sharps would fall into this category.

These are just my definitions - so no one has to agree with me. Doesn't really matter to me that much, because I love them all!!! :D
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Pete44ru
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Pete44ru »

[A repeating rifle that uses an UNDER :mrgreen: lever to cycle ammunition from a magazine into the chamber.]

Pass the popcorn, please. ;) :mrgreen:
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kimwcook
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by kimwcook »

OS +1. I do miss the tales of "Big Nose Kate".
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

You can still read them at the Shiloh site. But how about Junior, is he anywhere?
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Modoc ED
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Modoc ED »

I've gotta go with "Old Savage's" definition and agree with the SAAMI definition that "Bruce Scott" gave too.
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Griff
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Griff »

Quigley notwithstanding, "lever-action" means something other than simply opening the breach. Let's face it, had he said anything else it would have sounded pretentious and out of character for the time, place & circumstances. Lever-action repeaters... hard to describe, but ya know one when ya see one! :P
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Doc Hudson »

Let's try this definition on for size:

Lever-Action Rifle -- While in it's broadest sense the term "Lever-Action Rifle" can include such lever actuated single-shot rifles as falling-block or tilting-block actions such as Sharps, Ballard, Martini-Henry, Ithaca, Spencer, and Ruger rifles, these are not the usually accepted in the definition.

As generally accepted, the term "Lever-Action Rifle" refers to repeating rifles with a rear-ward acting bolt actuated by an ovoid finger-lever that encloses at least three fingers of the shooting hand. Though there are some box-magazine fed "Lever-Action Rifles," the vast majority of "Lever-Action Rifles" use a tubular magazines. Rifles such as Winchester's famous Model 1873, Model 1892, and Model 1894, as well as Marlin's Models 336, 30, 39, 1895, and 444 epitomize the style that springs to mind when the term "Lever-Action Rifle" is heard.

What do y'all think?
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Hobie »

I think that...

1. That's a definition one can sink his teeth into and...
2. It's darn nice to see you here again! :D :!:
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rjohns94
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by rjohns94 »

I can understand why you would differentiate between falling blocks and tube fed but why discount the magazine fed winchesters, brownings, savage?
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Griff
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Griff »

Hobie wrote:I think that...

1. That's a definition one can sink his teeth into and...
2. It's darn nice to see you here again! :D :!:
Ditto on BOTH points!
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Old Savage
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

As I recall we more or less ended this last time with me inviting Hobie and Griff over for a beer - Griff said he liked Coors Light and I don't believe Hobie expressed a preference. :D
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ByronG
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by ByronG »

Old Savage wrote: But how about Junior, is he anywhere?
He surely is.

Over on Cast Boolits he has posted 1729 times and his last post was today.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=201

And he has his own website http://www.castbullet.com/index.htm
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by ByronG »

I think the "levergun" definition should be short, simple and include all the repeaters no matter how fed. These look good to me so far:

A repeating rifle that uses an under lever to cycle ammunition from a magazine into the chamber.
An under lever operated repeating rifle.
A repeating rifle that uses a [under] lever to cycle ammunition from a magazine into the chamber.
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greasy dan
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by greasy dan »

Here's a Thousand words...
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by 99savage308 »

re: definition of a levergun

It uses a lever to operate the action. Period. Be it a single shot or a repeater. Shotgun or rifle or anything that goes bang.

It is simple. What is the problem? Y'all are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Doc Hudson »

rjohns94 wrote: why discount the magazine fed winchesters, brownings, savage?
I don't discount box magazine fed leverguns! My favorite levergu IS a box fed BLR. It is just that when someone mentions lever-guns, most of us, including me, visualize a Winchester or Marlin tube fed carbine. How about you?
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Old Savage
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

It's what we do, who we are - mountains out of what - molehills :?: :?: :?: - why you better take that back boy.
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Pete44ru
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Pete44ru »

Could someone please pass me the popcorn, again ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Paladin
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Paladin »

Someone has way too much time on their hands when they should be on the range or loading bench.
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rjohns94
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by rjohns94 »

Hmm, my first thought would be to tube fed, then those savage and winchester box feds in .308 come to mind, then my mind rests on my Shiloh Sharps and can't go much further. Hard to discount any in my book. The sharps and the others have their own catagory and I can accept that, just hate to have the box fed levers in a subgroup when they contribute so much to the aura of the levergun. But it's your definition and I was just wondering why they were not in it, thats all.
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Old Savage
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

Hmm then, pre 1895/post 1895 on the repeaters.
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BAGTIC
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by BAGTIC »

Pete44ru wrote:[A repeating rifle that uses an UNDER :mrgreen: lever to cycle ammunition from a magazine into the chamber.]

Pass the popcorn, please. ;) :mrgreen:

If you only load one round into the gun at a time it then ceases to be a 'levergun', Right?
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Re: Definition of a levergun

Post by Old Savage »

Interesting point - you just may not be "levergunning". :?:
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