Hornady 250 gr RN .358" bullets in a .356 Winchester ???

[O.S.O.K.]

Anybody load these in their .356 Winchester? I'm wondering if the caneluer is placed so that a crimp can be applied and the overall length not exeeded. They look a little long nosed...

[JDL]

I just measured some and from nose to cannalure is .755". I don't know what your OAL is but, they work fine in a .358 Winchester.
JDL

[Hobie]

How about in a .356 Winchester?

[iceman]

I use them in my 356, but I seat them past the crimp groove and use a Lee Factory crimp die. They shoot real well in mine.

[O.S.O.K.]

I use them in my 356, but I seat them past the crimp groove and use a Lee Factory crimp die. They shoot real well in mine.

OK, thanks - that's kinda what I thought. I'd back off the load data a bit too to compensate for the loss of case capacity.

What kind of velocity do you get?

[iceman]

I'm not really sure, I don't have a crony. I would give you my loads,but i'm on the road right now and don't have that good a memory. I do know I get 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds and deer fall down real quick when they are hit by one. With a bullet that size velocity is not really an issue with any respectable load at a reasonable distance.

[O.S.O.K.]

I'm not really sure, I don't have a crony. I would give you my loads,but i'm on the road right now and don't have that good a memory. I do know I get 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds and deer fall down real quick when they are hit by one. With a bullet that size velocity is not really an issue with any respectable load at a reasonable distance.

I understand. I imagine that you get full penetration - does it look like they're expanding? Is the exit wound larger?

[C. Cash]

Keep us posted O.S.O.K. I am very interested in how these do in your rifle as well. I shoot the 356 Win. in the mod. 94 and am trying to decide whether to work up some Speer 220's or something in the 250 Gr. neighborhood for Elk in SW Colorado. I'll probably start with the Speer bullets. I've mainly shot bullets in the 200 Grain cast variety in my rifle.

[Hobie]

Those Speer 220s were made for the .356. They are even good in the .35 Rem but most think they start a bit slow in that cartridge.

[iceman]

OOOPS my error. I was thinking 200 gr not 250 gr. I have no experience with these 250's. I have shot 220 speer with mixed results. I'll stick with 200 gr hornady and Lee FCD. Sorry for misinformation.

[O.S.O.K.]

mmmk false alarm.

C. Cash - If these aren't viable, then there's alway's Hawk bullets - they make a 250 grain flat point - very good bullet. Just twice the "cash" as the Hornady's... and I'm sure the Hornady's are good bullets - just wonder about usable velocity for the .356 - Hornady lists them in a higher velocity range which indicats a thicker jacket...

[C. Cash]

Thanks for the heads up on the Hawk Bullets O.S.O.K. I've always thought the 250 Gr. bullets would be ideal for this caliber, whether cast or jacketed, if one did not have to deep seat it due to a short throat. I had a box of 250 Gr. factories but I gave those to Tycer. Never knew I'd be trying to shoot at Elk in Colorado!

Hobie...yes the cannulure on the Speer 220's was designed for 356 Win. If the 220 Speer's with correctly placed cannulure were available when the 356 Win. first came out, I think this caliber would have taken off a bit better. I'm pretty sure that bullet was unavailable until the mid 80's or later. People were initially told that bullets blew up on game in this caliber(I suppose bullets of lighter construction did at the higher velocity), and that the rifles were inaccurate, or that recoil was "brutal". I'm glad I didn't listen to all these folks!

[afish4570]

Shot alot of 200 gr. Remington RN bought several years ago on sale a Midway in my 356. Chrono at 2330fps. using 3031 powderTook two deer with this load and really hits hard. I have a box of the 220 FN but not tried them. Perhaps for elk they might be necessary. I loaded these 200 gr. loads to alittle under max o.l. and have had no problems back east on deer. Love my 356, light ,powerful and accurate for a traditional lever gun.

[JDL]

A 200 grain will work fine on elk as long as broadside shots are taken but, don't try to shoot from one end to the other. The velocity on most of the 250s will be too low for reliable expansion as Hornady lists 2300-2800 fps and only has 2163 fps as the top velocity in the .356.
Now that I've said that, I talked to a Hornady tech a few years ago and was told that the 250 RN would expand down to 1600 fps. This would get you close to 200 yards with the listed top velocity.
A sure way to answer your question is to test some against a known performer. I usually use wet newsprint and a .30'06 as a control round. The Bullet Test Tube would be ideal but, I'd rather spend the coins on reloading supplies.
JDL

[O.S.O.K.]

All true.

The biggest problem I see with this bullet is if the max ocl can't be adhered to by crimping in the canneluer - if you look at it, the nose is reducing in diamter from that point forward - making a crimp ahead of it impractical - I'd not be confident that the bullet wouldn't submarine under recoil in the mag tube.

[JDL]

Yeah, you probably need to stick with the 200-220 grain bullets. I noticed an error in my post, " Hornady lists 2300-2800 fps and only has 2163 fps as the top velocity in the .356." HODGDON listed 2163 fps with the 250s and I don't have any information from Hornady on the .356.
JDL

[O.S.O.K.]

Acutally, a 250 grain bullet at 2100-2200 fps is a very effect and proven combination - as long as the bullets are compatible with the velocity. I'm going to try Paco's idea of casting some (I've got a Saeco 250 fn/gc mold) - using wheel weights and then standing them in water up to about 1/4" of the top of the nose and then using a torch to heat them - removing the temper. Basically, softens them enough to cause them to expand well.

From what I've read though, regular wheel weight cast bullets will expand without this being done.

And I still have some Hawk 250 flat noses in my cabinet too...

I was just thinking that these Hornady's might be a good economical option.... but if the cast bullets work - I'm done.

[JDL]

Now your're talking! I had a 225 grain mold made for my .358, run them a little over 2000 fps, and will use it on game through elk size for sure. I also use the RCBS 35-200 and it would probably work as well but, I just wanted a mold made to my rifle. Air-cooled wheelweights with a BHN 14 work fine at this velocity without any need for doing special things to make them expand. I ran some penetration/expansion test some years ago and found the RCBS bullet cast 1-3 of linotype/lead and water quinched to BHN 21, to perform as a duplicate of the Sierra 200 RN.
JDL

[Pepe Ray]

F.Y.I.
The Speer 220 gr. FN is illustrated in the Speer #9 reloading manual, circa 1979.
Loads for a 220 gr .cat.# 3585-220-R-SP are given in Speer Manual#3.Circa 1959 altho it is NOT illustrated.
It is safe to assume that the bullet was originally designed for thr .35Rem.
I have no info at hand to say whether or not the bullet had been redesigned over the years accept for the advent of the "Hot-cor". in the "70's.
Pepe Ray

[O.S.O.K.]

I don't know which cartridge the 220 grain Speer FN was desgined for but I can tell you it functions perfectly and works great in the .356 Win. I had a Win 94 BB that I loaded for but had to sell it while unemployed about a year and half ago.

I'm getting a rechambered Marlin 336 35 Rem to "replace" it.

[C. Cash]

F.Y.I.
The Speer 220 gr. FN is illustrated in the Speer #9 reloading manual, circa 1979.
Pepe Ray

I believe it was just the crimp groove that was moved to accomodate the 356 Win. in the Mod. 94... sometime after it was introduced in the early/mid eighties...so perhaps "redesigned" better describes it.