Remington 45-70 405gr JSP

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:49 pm

I've heard these bullets, when crimped in the top crimp groove, will be too long to cycle in a Marlin 1895, and must be seated deeper and crimped somewhere on the shoulder of the bullet to accomodate an OAL that will cycle.

Does anyone have any experience with this and exactly how much deeper the bullet must be seated?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:57 pm

yes this is true. Your loading book should have an overall cartridge lenght listed for the 1895 Marlin - my Speer book does IIRC.

Sorry I can't tell you what that number is...

Montanan · Post by **Montanan** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:28 pm

Here is a pic of differant .458 jacketed bullets. Notice bullet 3 and 4, bullet #3 being a 400-gr Speer JSP and bullet #4 a 405-gr Rem 405-gr. You will have to seat the Rem 405-gr above the hump with a firm but not hard crimp.

You can get a Lee factory crimp die if you feel you need to.

Your total OAL is 2.545"

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:33 pm

My OAL for my loads are 2.55 with Rem 405s and it usually lands right in the top crimp groove.....Cycles in my 1895GS and 1895CB just fine and dandy...

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:58 pm

They cycle fine in my Marlin LTDIII and my Browning '86 seated in the middle of the top crimp groove as well.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:00 pm

Max case length is 2.105" for the 45-70. In his article Handloading for the Marlin Model 1895, Brian Pearce trimmed the brass to 2.095". With the Remington 405 Softpoints the oal was 2.525". The longest oal was with Cast Performance 405 gr & 420 gr LFNGC bullets at 2.55". All loads functioned w/o problems.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:19 pm

Can you "re-groove" bullets with some sort of cannelure making tool reasonably easily/inexpensively? It seems like it would be a fairly easy thing to do with a relatively simple tool/device.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:50 pm

Yes, several companies make canneluring tools.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:16 pm

If someone who has a stash of the 405gr Remingtons on hand could take some measurements of the bullet for me, it'd be much appreciated.

I'd like the following measurements :

total length.

distance from base to the center of 1st cannelure.

distance from base to the center of 2nd cannelure.

width of the band between the cannelures.

Bis · Post by **Bis** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:47 pm

I have some of the 405 you are asking about ( Rem 405 JSP)

With old eyes and old calibers, this is what I came up with.

OAL 1.001-1.002

base to cl of first cannelure .225

base to cl of second cannelure .405

between cannelures .100

width of cannelures .080

I hope this helps.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:48 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Can you "re-groove" bullets with some sort of cannelure making tool reasonably easily/inexpensively? It seems like it would be a fairly easy thing to do with a relatively simple tool/device.

A Lee Factory Crimp Die will make that unnecessary....I can't do without one of these for each caliber...

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:53 pm

Thanks Bis and everyone else for the the replies.

I just wanted to make sure before I ordered some up and/or had to start thinking about just trimming my cases down to accomodate them.

cas · Post by **cas** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:05 pm

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:13 pm

Cas,

I may not be correct in my assumption, but every bullet I've seen crimped, be it factory new / factory reload / or someone else's load, has always been crimped into the cannelure.

I've never seen a factory round with a cannelured bullet crimped anywhere outside of it.

These 405gr JSPs are the only ones I've heard it being done with.

cas · Post by **cas** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:21 pm

Hmmm... can't find any photos of Remington factory ammo, but this will do. (same same)

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... cts_id=163

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/i ... 0_405..jpg

http://www.magnumresearch.com/NewsItems ... s/hg04.gif

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:10 am

I just checked the Remington factory 405 gr. .45-70 I have. I measures COL of 2.539" and bullets are crimped as CAS describes. While it appeared that the bullets might seem to be crimped in a cannelure comparing the Remington 405 gr. bullet to the loaded cartridge made it clear that they were not. The Remington brass has a case cannelure/crimp to prevent bullet set-back in the case.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:26 am

Hobie,

A friend measured his Remington factory round and used the measurements from above and determined they are also crimped as you and Cas described.

Like I said, these are the only bullets I've heard of or have seen that have the crimp outside the cannelure.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:37 am

Just wanted to clear this up...

Yeah most bullets ARE crimped in the cannelure. Most bullets don't have this design "feature".

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:54 am

Yeah, it seems a little odd.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:19 pm

I meant to add that... It was more common with BP cartridges as the full case of BP held the bullet forward.

TomF · Post by **TomF** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:10 pm

Way back when, I checked a box of factgory Remington 405s. The case is crimped at the shoulder of the bullet. I tried to crimp in the cannelure but it would not cycle in my 1895G.

TomF

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:25 pm

Hobie wrote:I just checked the Remington factory 405 gr. .45-70 I have. I measures COL of 2.539" and bullets are crimped as CAS describes. While it appeared that the bullets might seem to be crimped in a cannelure comparing the Remington 405 gr. bullet to the loaded cartridge made it clear that they were not. The Remington brass has a case cannelure/crimp to prevent bullet set-back in the case.

Thats common with older calibres. Every factory 38/55 or 32/40 I'v ever seen was crimped behind the bullet.
Would be nice if Rem put a crimp groove where it was useful tho.

Remington 45-70 405gr JSP

Remington 45-70 405gr JSP

Re: Remington 45-70 405gr JSP