Marlin 1894's just can't shoot accurately.....

[AJMD429]

.....according to 44MagHunter, that is (and he knows all since he's a young man now)....

I remember his 1980's vintage 1894 in 44 Mag shooting a variety of handloads and factory loads from 180 grain to 265 grain, ALL in the same 4" circle at 50 yards, with any given load within 2" or so. Not sniper-accurate, but definitely minute-of-whitetail.

Now, he refuses to use jacketed anything, and wants to use hard-cast, but finding factory loads like that is next to impossible, and the loads he's tried keyhole (Armscorp 240 gr lead SWC) or just aren't that accurate. He blames the micro-groove barrel, but MY 1894's have always done pretty well with 240 grain JSP's, whether Winchester 'white-box' or handloads in the 1600 fps range.

Does anyone here have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag that gets good groups with a factory 'hard-cast lead' load, or a handload with such a bullet that is accurate...???

'Proof' in photos would be ideal.....

[keyston44]

44 mag rifles have a .431 groove diameter. 44 mag handguns are .429. So if he is using a cast bullet sized for a handgun he will get horrible accuracy. It isn't a Marlin thing or a Micro-Groove thing, it's a SAAMI thing. I don't know why they spec 44 mag handguns different from 44mag rifles. I shoot nothing but cast and I size mine to .433 with very good accuracy and no leading.

Key

Yes, slug that barrel and size the bullets accordingly and see greatly improved results. I have three Marlin 1894's in .44 mag and they will all shoot little groups at 50yd. With my cast bullet loads. Some molds wont cast bullets large enough so a custom mold may be needed.

[fordwannabe]

Doc, I have a 1894 in 44 mag. My load is a 310 lee cast hard and unsized. I use Ben's red lube and 16.0 grains of 2400. It has been safe in my gun but you need to work up to it
. I don't have pics but accuracy is less than 2inches at fifty yards. And yes it does stabilize that bullet...though it's not supposed.to.

[Bronco]

Howdy All

After I got my Marlin, I was educated to the large bore and slow twist Bore was .4323" . Same thinking as others, why in the world have two SAMMI specs??? Never even dawned on me!
I could get 300 gr. properly sized cast bullets to shoot well with almost no leading. However , only at top velocities because of the twist. I enjoy shooting cat sneeze loads, around 800 fps, and at those velocities and they would tumble, twist related. AND that was the bullet, Verals LBT 280gr LFP, I wanted to shoot! It came out right at 300gr ( 298gr with lube and gc ) ! So off it went to Regan for a new barrel, heavy contour with a 1:16 twist and a .429 bore. Now I got one bullet, same size, that works great in the revolver, Red Hawk, and rifle. I can get 3" to 3 1/2", mag velocities, at a hundred yards, with rifle . Not that good with hand gun I know that is a drastic solution, was lucky to have the cash to make my vision, two firearms one bullet working well, come true.
According to Veral Smith, he thinks that a properly sized cast bullet is just the ticket for micro-grooved barrels. I also know that some people think Veral is next to worthless but I have found him to be a great teacher in learning about the intricacies to successful casting of lead bullets.

Just my humble experience and opinion

John

[missionary5155]

Good morning
If he wants to sell it cheap I will buy it ! After all it doesn't shoot well !

[3leggedturtle]

Doc, I hear what you say. All the poor critters killed with micro groove Marlins probably thought they were safe!

[Nath]

Trade it for a win 94 then your set

[Rusty]

Tell him there's a loose nut on the but plate.

A hard cast bullet fitted to the bore will turn in as good an accuracy level as you can get. If the Armscorp is cutting a keyhole it clearly doesn't fit the bore. I'll bet at this point he might even have some leading.

[44shooter]

Mine shoots ok with Federal Castcore, 300 grains at that. I bought it in the early 2000s so it has Ballard rifling.

[Lefty Dude]

Sold my Marlin 94/44 Cowboy several years ago. The bore slugged at .432". Bought a Rossi 92/44 with a .429" bore. The piece shoots very nice groups with 240 gr SWC. at 100 yards. This would be the very last Rifle I would ever sell.

Never regretted selling the piece.

[Ysabel Kid]

.....according to 44MagHunter, that is (and he knows all since he's a young man now)....

Isn't 44MagHunter out of his teens now? That's usually when a young man goes from "knowing it all" to realizing just how much sh!t they don't know!

[AJMD429]

At least he does have one thing right - he says "45 Colt is better than 44 Magnum" due to the heavier bullet, potentially larger meplat, and mostly - the fact that rifle barrels for 44 Mag (other than Rugers) are always too slow of a twist rate, but 45 Colt ones seem to be more appropriate.

I think he's "resigned himself" to loading up (or finding factory loads) hard-cast bullets in the 240-grain range at perky enough velocities to stabilize.

[Nath]

Tell him it's ok, tell him Nathan says he bought a marlin once. It can and does happen.
That he will get over it, may take a while but once it's all cried out it'll be over with and then it can be replaced with something from a real manufacturer of firearms.

N

[JohndeFresno]

This is an eye-opener.

So...
Why do folks keep posting all this ballyhoo, even here, that a .44 Mag levergun and handgun make a great one-load combination??

Am I reading correctly that a .45 Colt load is, across all or most reputable (modern) firearm brands, more likely to be compatible for rifle AND pistol use, like the good old .44-40?

In other words, if one handloads for both calibers, is it a wiser choice to choose a .45 Colt combo over the .44 Mag levergun and revolver?

[Blaine]

I don't find it necessary to have a handgun out in the woods that matches the rifle I carry. Because the 30wcf, .444 or .308, or 30-06. I mean, if I have a .444 why to I need a super handgun? More than likely, I'll have a little .22 in a pocket. Maybe, a .45acp handy.

[JohndeFresno]

Blaine,
I am thinking in terms of a handy yet powerful single load that is interchangeable for survival, defense, and small to medium game, if a future situation required light carry and one loading setup. Bug out situations, which is not such a far stretch of the imagination these days.

Think Old West era .44 caliber combos carried on horseback or ATV or on foot.

Secondarily, a pocket or belt full of cartridges that one can depend upon without keeping them in tagged boxes, "rifle" or "handgun."

[Griff]

First, let's disabuse ourselves of the notion that there's TWO SAAMI specs for any cartridge. There are, however, minimum and maximum specifications. And what gunmakers decide on using is their business... And largely dependent on their capabilities. The 44 Magnum is a Revolver cartridge, the Auto Mag, Desert Eagle and various leverguns made in this caliber notwithstanding. Revolvers can be intimidatingly accurate, or frustratingly inaccurate... determined by the specifications of both the arm itself, and how well it fits the ammo... Not to mention how well the manufacturer can meet those specifications. Since with a revolver, one only has to merely slide the ammo into the chamber, revolver manufacturers can use chambers nearer to the minimum dimension provided by SAAMI, or even, as small as the maximum for the ammo and be assured that they won't be receiving guns back because they won't chamber ammo.

Not so with either semi-auto or lever-action arms. The physical manipulation of the round to feed from magazine to chamber requires a chamber of slightly larger dimension in order to facilitate the various angles required for feeding and chambering, along with a nod to different nose shapes and weights of projectiles. BTW, if your 44Mag rifle has a groove diameter or .431, consider yourself lucky... the tolerance given by SAAMI is +/- .004". (source: http://www.leverguns.com/dimensions/images/44mag.jpg). For ammo bullet diameter, it's listed as .432"-.0030".

Anyone who thinks they can just buy any ol' ammo and have it be accurate in their gun... is only deluding themselves... Either cast/size or buy your bullets appropriately.

[AJMD429]

What Griff said....

At least 'jacketed' bullets do fairly well in my 44 Mag leverguns.

[Blaine]

Blaine,
I am thinking in terms of a handy yet powerful single load that is interchangeable for survival, defense, and small to medium game, if a future situation required light carry and one loading setup. Bug out situations, which is not such a far stretch of the imagination these days.

Think Old West era .44 caliber combos carried on horseback or ATV or on foot.

Secondarily, a pocket or belt full of cartridges that one can depend upon without keeping them in tagged boxes, "rifle" or "handgun."

I sincerely mean no offense, but one can tell the difference between my rifle and .22 shells, or .45acp shells.

[Bronco]

Griff,

Soooo why does SAAMI have two specs then for 44 mag. One for pistol and one for rifle???

pistol
http://prntscr.com/hxg19v

rifle
http://prntscr.com/hxg35n

Taken from their site
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and ... /index.cfm

So educate me again, simple mind here, that SAAMI does not have two specs for the 44 mag ! I may have not understood the crux of your explanation!

Your link duplicated the SAAMI rifle page!

[Griff]

Learn something new, every day if you pay attention. Thanks. But... I've wondered all day, which came first, rifles chambered in 44Mag, or the SAAMI spec? Since the first rifle I'm aware of in 44 Mag was the Winchester mdl 94 in 1969, was there already a SAAMI spec? Or, did they make the specification to reflect what the gun makers were doing?