Stevens 25 RF Question - Update w/ Pictures

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:14 am

Fellas,

My local gun shop just got a Stevens 25 RF in on consignment. I did not get the model but it is an old one in nice shape. It is the standard dropping block action with a 20" (?) half round/half octagon heavy barrel. The condition is very good and the bore is great. I am thinking about jumping on this one but want to hear from the crowd on what the value may be or where I can get some information about it?

Post by **Hobie** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:40 am

The .25 Stevens rimfire is an interesting cartridge. I wish I could find a good one AND a supply of cartridges.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:30 am

Well, she is not at the gun shop anymore. It turns out that it is a 24" half octagon/ half round tapering barrel. It will take me awhile to take her down a determine all the good and bad, but here are some pictures. Hopefully, someone can correctly tell me the model etc... I will ad more info as I can. BTW, the ammo came with her and two of the boxes are full and the other is half full. $575 out the door and please if that is bad - don't tell me.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:17 pm

I do hope that somebody will make more ammo... No, it isn't for me to say that is too much. I might have done for her too...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Bruce,

That's a nice old rifle. Love that heavy barrel.
I used to shoot a lot of the Canadian CIL ammo back in the late 60's and 70's. Then it dried up. That was some great ammo. Wish we could still get it.

Joe

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:36 pm

I don't think he post any longer, but I bet MM93 could give you the run down on that rifle. I'd have been mighty tempted on that on also. Very cool.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:48 pm

The pictures don't do the rifle any justice. She is actually pretty clean. I think the receiver and lever must have been CCH as there appears to be a little pattern left. The barrel still retains a lot of the blue and I think it may be a type of rust bluing. The sights appear to be original and I must say the rear sight is something else. Robust would be the word. The wood to metal fit is very good with some dings. The S/N (3244x) on the receiver and barrel match. Does anyone know where I can look this one up. Someone needs to run over to MM93's house and fix that computer. Concerning the barrel, it is right at 1" where the octagon stops and the round begins. She tapers down to right at 3/4" at the muzzle. The stampings on the barrel are as follows:

J. Stevens A. & T. Co.
Chicopee Falls Mass USA PAT APR 17 94

The above is bordered on each side by a box/diamond stamp.

Also on the barrel is 25.R.F

The left side of the lever has the number 2 stamped in it. I will be pulling the forearm and stock in a little while and will report on that.

OK, I pulled the forearm and stock and found that it is a Model 44.

moodyholler · Post by **moodyholler** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:35 pm

That is a 44 IDEAL rifle which is a neat rifle. The ammo is very valuable. You done real good!! moodyholler

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:47 pm

Yup - That looks like a ca. 1900 Stevens "Ideal" No.44 Sporting and Gallery Rifle.

The original MSRP w/24" bbl & those "B" sights was $15.00 !

They were available in: 22 Long Rifle, 25 Stevens, 22-7 1/2 Winchester and 32 Long, rimfire; 22-10, 25-20 Stevens, 25-25 Stevens, 32 Long, 32-20 and 38-55 Marlin and Ballard, centerfire.

24" barrel - 7 1/2 lbs
26" barrel - 7 3/4 lbs
28" barrel - 8 lbs
30" barrel - 8 1/2 lbs

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:48 pm

Bruce, nice new toy, congrats.

About a month and a half ago we had one go through the shop and it had either two or three boxex of shells like that with it. You aren't near central Pennsylvania are you?

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:11 pm

Pete44ru wrote:Yup - That looks like a ca. 1900 Stevens "Ideal" No.44 Sporting and Gallery Rifle.

The original MSRP w/24" bbl & those "B" sights was $15.00 !

They were available in: 22 Long Rifle, 25 Stevens, 22-7 1/2 Winchester and 32 Long, rimfire; 22-10, 25-20 Stevens, 25-25 Stevens, 32 Long, 32-20 and 38-55 Marlin and Ballard, centerfire.

24" barrel - 7 1/2 lbs
26" barrel - 7 3/4 lbs
28" barrel - 8 lbs
30" barrel - 8 1/2 lbs

Pete...
I saw one of these for sale recently that was marked 32 Long. I emailed the sellar to ask if it was rimfire or centerfire. He never answered. Do you have any idea how the rimfires were marked? I would think .32 long centerfire would be a round you could work up reloads for.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:38 pm

FWIW when you run out of .25 Stevens, at one time Numrich/GPC sold a new production .22LR barrel.

I had one several years ago but never got around to finishing the project.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:44 am

OWS has original Remington 25 stevens short rimfire ammo at $3 a round

. http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product ... ts_id/1200

I believe Navy arms imported newly made ammo from South America a few years back.Well RTG SPORTING COLLECTIBLES, LLC has old boxed ammo for 25 stevens long rimfire ,checkout the prices-
http://www.rtgammo.com/rim_other.html.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:01 am

Bruce here is a link for a schematic on Wisner's website with new manufactured partshttp://www.wisnersinc.com/exploded_view ... del_44.htm.Thought you might find it helpful.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:20 am

Moody, thanks for the comment. I knew it had to come home with me, I just didn't have any background with this type of rifle.

I guess I should not go out a shoot up all my ammo?

At three dollars a round for shorts, I don't see much target shooting in my future.

Pete, what is a "B" sight? From the looks of the way it is built, you would think the sight was designed for a 50 cal. Do you have any reference material for dating by the S/N?

Oldgerboy, I am in north Florida. This one came into the shop yesterday. I have actually had a good month so far. Bought a really nice 94 takedown at a local gun show a few weeks ago. We don't see guns like these very often.

awp101, I think I would get my butt roasted if I replaced the barrel or messed with this one. I don't even know if I am going to shoot it. I got it because it was there, it was different, it had ammo and I thought I would take a gamble on the value.

Jaguarundi, thanks for the links. I don't think I will need any parts as it seems OK. The lever does drop down a little when cocked, but I don't know if that is going to be a problem or not.

Well, I'm off to search the web and see what I can find out.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:55 am

Derek: It's hard to say, on those late 19th-Early 20th Century guns. I never had a Stevens .32, but I've had two different Remington .32 rollers, a RF & a CF - but the barrels on both were marked simply: "CAL .32", and I had to figure out whether the chamber was a Short/Long (different case lengths), Colt/S&W (different case diameters), etc, etc.

I buy currently made .32 Short Colt CF ammo ($26/per 50) as it's made. sporadically, by Winchester for my CF roller - but the Short Colts fit all the larger & longer chambers, like the .32 Long Colt, .32 S&W Short, and the .32 S&W Long. Heck, they'll prolly fire in a .32 H&R chamber - although I haven't tried it, as I currently don't own a .32H&R gun.

BTW - My roller was converted to CF, as they were only made in .32RF. My breechblock has two firing pin holes, one RF, one CF - an original CF would only have the CF hole.

Bruce:
The No.44 Ideal (and other models) were first introduced in 1894, then re-introduced in Steven's 1898 catalog as the "New Style Ideal Rifles". They lasted until 1903, when all Stevens rifles were made as the "New Action (takedown) Rifles".

The Stevens "B" sights, in those years, meant barrel-mounted sights - and they were "standard" on your gun, if no other sights were ordered.

Optional on your model were the "D", "E", & "F" sights, for an additional $3.00 MSRP.

The "D" was also a barrel mounted sight, although a flip-up type ILO the "sporting" step elevator type B.
"E" & "F" sights were not barrel mounted, and required the factory to fit a dovetail filler blank in the barrel slot.

Heavier barrels, etc was an extra $2.00 MSRP.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:31 pm

Well, I learn as I go. Got my hands on a Stevens/Savage book today and with that and Pete44ru's information I have discovered the following. Mine is a takedown - of sorts. Took that bottom screw out and the barrel came right off.

Everything is looking good internally. The heavy duty sight has a depression right in front of the rear blade. Mine has either nothing in it or if that is for an adjustment screw, mine is broke off. Can anyone advise?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:27 pm

Bruce wrote:Well, I learn as I go. Got my hands on a Stevens/Savage book today and with that and Pete44ru's information I have discovered the following. Mine is a takedown - of sorts. Took that bottom screw out and the barrel came right off.

Which means you should be able to swap in the .22LR barrel with no ill effects to you or the rifle...

But I'd do more research than I did to make sure it'll work without any mods. It's simply been too long ago that I fooled with the one I had.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:35 am

awp101, I see what you mean now. Gotta love the information you can get from this crowd. My guess is a barrel and maybe a different extractor. I may give that some serious thought. I looked (briefly) on the Numrich web site, but did not find anything. I'll go back and check again.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:58 am

I hope the firing pin isn't so far out from center it won't work with the .22 LR as in the reverse where the .22 LR firing pin doesn't strike far enough from center to be usable with the larger diameter .25 Stevens cartridge (or so I've heard).

Bruce, you made me look up data on the .25 Special (.22 Hornet cut down and necked up used with cast bullets) which would give a centerfire approximation of the .25 Stevens AND would be a dandy load for a converted Ruger Single-Six.... Maybe Boge will have one made up on a Bearcat.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:39 am

Bruce, Since it's a takedown, IMO that would put it somewhere between 1903-1916 (or so) - when (I think) Stevens upgraded all to the 44 1/2 action.

BTW - It's had to get one's mind around it today - but, back then Stevens was the largest firearms manufacturer in the world !
Which made them bigger than Remington, Mauser, Winchester, and FN - before Bill Ruger was only a twinkle in his father's eye.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:39 am

Pete44ru, that is what I now understand. I wonder why we don't run across more Stevens guns around my part of the world? I think you are right on the date(s) as best as I can research.

Hobie, I have about talked myself out of shooting this one, very much that is. I knew the ammo was scarce, but I am getting my eyes opened. I'll be thinking about "all" of my options.

I have it completly apart now and have to admire the simple action. Looks strong and reliable.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:57 pm

Well you might not shoot that one but a centerfire version of the .25 Stevens would be interesting! As you can see, I think a cartridge of this caliber and ballistic output is interesting.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:36 pm

Hobie, I think it is an interesting caliber also. Well I have put it back together and everything seems fine. It still has a little loose play in the lever. I found a parts diagram on the web and note that it did not have parts #21 and #22. I am not sure if they were lost before I got the rifle or if mine is not supposed to have them. I note that if #21 is a screw, there is no place in the lever for it to screw into. Any help out there? Well, I checked Wisners web site and not does not show those two parts.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:38 pm

[It still has a little loose play in the lever. it did not have parts #21 and #22.]

Bruce, Those parts take the play out of the lever. Part #21 is a plunger, not a screw, and the spring puts pressure on it against the lever.

It/they probably went flying, un-noticed, to parts unknown - when some innocent took the gun apart, once upon a time.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:55 am

Pete,

Someone did have it apart or at least they tried. The Chigago type screw for the lever has a slightly messed up head. They apparently did not know it was not a screw. All the others are fine. The gun had apparently not been disasembled for years, based on the build up of old grease inside.

Now the magic question and please don't laugh. Does anyone know where I might find a plunger and spring?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:11 am

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp? ... ACTION&MC=

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp? ... ACTION&MC=

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:02 am

Also, if you can find one original, they shouldn't be too hard to duplicate.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:20 am

Pete, I had found that plunger but was not sure it would work. I looked at both links and do not find the spring in stock??? I feel fairly confident I could come up with some kind of spring that would work if that plunger is right.

Hobie, I would like to find an original to copy, but I am not having any luck.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:11 pm

What you need is another collector with the complete gun and a willingness to help.

I wish I had one, we'd have you a part in short order.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:30 am

Hobie,

If I can find the correct parts, this one is probably going to a collector. I'm a shooter and hunter who just happened to get lucky (I think) on this one. If not, I have me a good wall hanger and turkey gun.