Pre-64 Model 94

[OD#3]

So recently I realized that, without really intending to, I'd accumulated at least one model of each lever action rifle Winchester made--all except the ubiquitous model 94. Now some of my rifles are reproductions (because I can't afford original Henry's, Model 66's, or '73's), but when I realized that my collection represented almost the complete gamut of Winchester's development of their lever action rifles, I thought it best to round things out with a model 94. I found a very nice 1960-produced one in a local pawn shop, and after a big of haggling, took it home. Pleased to have found a pretty nice pre-64 rifle, I commenced to giving it a good cleaning. I hadn't planned on a complete disassembly, but the more gunk I found, the further I wanted to take it down. I ended up stripping this thing down to the last pin, save the one copper-colored one in the locking block; I really didn't want to take a chance on damaging that one.

I have to say that this was the most aggravating and time-consuming gun disassembly and reassembly experience I've ever had, and I'd thought the 1886 was bad. However, as well-preserved as this example was, it was obvious that no one had been inside it before, and breaking it down like I did exposed a lot of gunk and incipient rust, as well as an issue that I wouldn't have noticed had I not disassembled it. For one, the nub on the lifter spring was worn down quite severely, so I stoned it back to shape and polished the cam lobe on the lifter. Everything is clean, well-lubed, and functioning great now, but I found it quite labor-intensive and nerve-wracking. There wasn't a single screw head that showed any signs of buggering before I began, and as difficult as some of them were to remove, I was really sweating there a few times. I think I spent about 8 hours on this maintenance, and I never want to have to do that again.

I know that many of you have pretty substantial collections of model 94's. Do you completely disassemble them? It was bad enough working on a 1960 version; I can't imagine how nerve-wracking it would be to break down a pre-war or something. But based on what I found inside mine, it would seem necessary to strip down even the very collectible examples.

[Chuck 100 yd]

The first one is the toughest. After that they are just a bear.

[ollogger]

I take the wood off & blast it with gun scrubber!!
Some I've bought have been so bad as I was almost afraid to see if they would cycle, 100 plus years of crud build up
and presto its all blown out & slick & clean, none of these were rust buckets so that was not a problem



Brad

[Griff]

The first one is the toughest. After that they are just a bear.

I think they get progressively easier... as long as you don't get over-confident! To me, they're easier than a mdl 1892! I probably have too many, (my wife almost accused me of that, then she found out how many my B-I-L has... and complimented me on my restraint)! I only dis-assemble once, clean thoroughly and put 'em back together, then they only get cleaned as necessary in regular shooting. Barrel swabbed and cleaned of any copper fouling and the insides wiped out... I do take out the mag plug, spring and follower every year or two on the ones I shoot regularly, as they need to be inspected for rust... the rest were lubed when assembled and haven't had any chemicals around them to wash that lube off.

[OldWin]

I don't completely tear one apart if I don't have to. I have a bunch of 94's, most old, a couple post war. For some reason, those are the ones that seem to have the softer lifter springs.
If I have to take a 100yr old one apart, my 2 best friends are patience and Kroil.
Most times, like OL said, if you take the wood off you can get them pretty good with degreaser and compressed air. Just make sure you have an air dryer.

[1894c]

I use to have two pre-64 Win.94's, but switched over to Marlin 336 and 1894 because I find it a whole lot easier to take Marlin's apart (sometimes I think that John Marlin was a little more clever than John Browning)... :O

blasphemer.jpg

[earlmck]

For you brave souls who take these things apart -- what is the tool to use for those inside screws that hold the cartridge guides on? I boogered one up trying to tighten it up on dad's old "thutty" back when I was maybe 11 years old. It's still there, apparently tight enough (maybe rusted in place) 60 some years later. I hardly ever shoot the gun 'cause I have lots I like better, but some of the grandkids might like to shoot it and I'll bet the guide would loosen again and bring her to a halt.

[OD#3]

Well, now that you mention it, I have to correct myself. I didn't remove the cartridge guides, but I did consider briefly using a screwdriver bit that I could turn with a small box wrench; I've used that method before in tight spots and with pretty good success. But the screw slots looked awfully shallow, and one already looked to have been partially chewed during its initial assembly. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find oily brown gunk under those if I did take them off. My rifle looked great on the outside with very little finish wear, an excellent bore, and no dings to speak of in the wood. The previous owner had obviously taken care to at least clean it and wipe it down often enough to keep rust off. But many of the internals had varnished oil on them and brown gunk that looked suspiciously like rust. After removing the bolt, I debated disassembling it, because you take a real chance of buggering things up when you start driving pins out. But the more I flushed it with oil, the more brown-colored stuff came oozing out. So I finally did start driving pins out, and I was glad I did. Nothing was pitted; in fact, none of the "rusty" parts had actually pitted. But the firing pin was brown and residing in a brown-colored firing pin channel. The extractor and its slot, likewise, was brown. Almost every surface that is normally not accessible without disassembly was brown, and it required scrubbing with one of those "Big 45 Frontier" pads to clean them off. Now I don't know if that was actually rust or some form of oxidized oil, but I was glad to get it off of those parts, and no amount of flushing with oil sans disassembly would have accomplished that.

[J Miller]

Winchester Mdl 94s are easy to take apart. Simple actually. Most people who have trouble with them are over thinking the the job. I did my first one, a pre-WW 1 SRC when I was 14 years old.

Mdl 94s rarely need to taken apart, you really can clean them without doing so. I think I used to take mine apart maybe once every two years or so, and then only if I shot them a lot, in the dirty, dusty, grimy, desert.

Keep and eye on that carrier spring, if it was that worn down it may not put enough tension on the carrier to hold it -up and down.

Joe

[Sixgun]

Yea, lots of guys here have already said it....no need for a complete tear down.....and I've done them all....73's to 65's.....in fact, sometimes that is detrimental as mistakes are always made in reassembly.

Just take off the wood off and spray the internals with PB Blaster or some other quality thin dissolving oil.....use lots of it..... Kroil is great but it's a little too expensive to just slop it all over the place. Let it sit for several hours all the time spraying more and working with a toothbrush or other nylon styled brush in all the nooks and crannies........then....go to the washtub with a hose and nozzle and turn on the hot water only and spray it like there's no tomorrow.

Check it out after it dries and you will be able to see if it's needs to done again. It will almost always dry on it's own fairly fast but a few swipes with a heat gun, compressed air, or hair dryer will get it nice.

Then reoil that baby, hit it with compressed air, wipe her down....then go to town at the gunclub. ---6

[Pete44ru]

For you brave souls who take these things apart -- what is the tool to use for those inside screws that hold the cartridge guides on ?

I used an offset screwdriver for years






Then, I found a ratchet/driver that was thin enough to fit inside the action, between the installed guides.





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[Malamute]

Interesting, Ive never found them to be difficult to take apart. I did my first one the same age Joe did, and had no manual or internet to guide me. After figuring it out, and realizing it was relatively simple, I also realized there wasn't any reason to take them apart for most cleaning and maintenance. The 1927 gun I came into felt like it was full of mud, and I guessed it had never been apart or cleaned well in most of its very hard life. I stripped it down to every part except the cartridge guides and soaked it in a bucket of carb cleaner. In the 30 years Ive had it since then, Ive taken it apart maybe twice for cleaning purposes, but it wasn't really needed.

There normally isn't any good reason I know of to remove the cartridge guides, and its more likely to cause trouble unless they become loose somehow.

The Marlin "easy to take apart" theory went out the window for me many years ago when I realized I really didn't need to take any of them apart to clean them, even cleaning up the 1886 after shooting black powder, and basically liked the Winchester operation and function far more. Ive not missed most of the Marlins Ive sold or traded off over the years.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have never found them dificult to dissasemble or reassemble either. I guess my background as a mechanic/machinist has given me a different perspective than most folks. Rebuilding 10 speed automatic transmissions for a few years will do that for a guy.
Like Griff , I find the 92 more difficult than the 94 untill you do a few.

[JohndeFresno]

Whew!
I guess I didn't realize how extensive a gunsmithing background that several of you possess. I am impressed.

I strongly believed​ and still believe that if the last regime stayed in power, sites like this one would have been "regulated" out of existence "in the interest of public safety."

Thank goodness, that is now highly unlikely for at least the next four years. So I am saving this thread for emergency referral. Great information on this site, as always.

[3leggedturtle]

I take the wood off and soak them in a metal trough filled with kerosene. Todd/3lef

[earlmck]

Much thanks on advice on handling of cartridge guide screws levergunners! I'll leave mine alone unless forced to deal with them -- I recall vividly when a loose one caused my M94 machine gun to quit. A frantic dig with pocket knife got a shell up and out, which I then fed in single shot style. And then since I was forced to slow down and contemplate the use of -- sights! -- I successfully harvested the previously unscathed deer. I don't remember what an 11 year old Arizona ranch kid used to tighten the screw, but it took serious abuse from the looks of it. An ice pick and hammer may have been involved...

[Pete44ru]

I don't remember what an 11 year old Arizona ranch kid used to tighten the screw, but it took serious abuse from the looks of it.

An ice pick and hammer may have been involved...

AHA ! ! A pre-duct tape "expedient repair" ! !




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[Griff]

I don't remember what an 11 year old Arizona ranch kid used to tighten the screw, but it took serious abuse from the looks of it.
An ice pick and hammer may have been involved...

AHA ! ! A pre-duct tape "expedient repair" ! !

[Griff]

Pete, thanks for posting that pic of the Chapman tool, I have one, (sans the box and the extra bits), and couldn't remember who made it!

[zoner]

i only had to tear down my 1942 m94 once.....the lever started "falling"....the only way it would stay closed is manually....scared the h-ll out of me. But i consulted the knowledgable folks around here, and disassembled my gun....and was able to reassemble without to much drama thanks to you guys. The problem?....my lever latch plunger spring had rusted and broken in it's recess,an easy fix. Thanks again levergunners.....Mike
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