So, what about the use of drones in scouting/hunting?

[Batman1939]

I've thought a bit about this issue in the past but haven't read much of anything on the topic; I suspect it will become a "hot button" issue before too long--or maybe it already is for some. As a preface, I recently ran into a retired Regional Supervisor for AZ Game & Fish and during our conversation I mentioned that my son had recently hunted a trophy deer area in Northern Arizona where there seemed to be a few to several trail cameras on each water tank (or other source). The use of trail cams is legal in AZ, but in MT it is illegal to have trail cams out during hunting seasons; I don't know how this might play out if a landowner claimed he was using them for security reasons--in his apple orchard or alfalfa field ( ).

BUT--to get to my topic: A couple of days ago I visited a friend who was given a "toy" drone as a gift. This toy only had a range of 100 feet or so, but it made us think about how more sophisticated equipment might be used for scouting game. What do all you levergunners think about the ethics of using drones in scouting/hunting and are any of you aware of regulations restricting such use in your area?

I suspect there may be some differences of opinion. I personally think that this would be carrying technology too far, but I know some of you likely think that loads using percussion caps, rather than flint, are too "new-fangled".

[Batman1939]

I've thought a bit about this issue in the past but haven't read much of anything on the topic; I suspect it will become a "hot button" issue before too long--or maybe it already is for some. As a preface, I recently ran into a retired Regional Supervisor for AZ Game & Fish and during our conversation I mentioned that my son had recently hunted a trophy deer area in Northern Arizona where there seemed to be a few to several trail cameras on each water tank (or other source). The use of trail cams is legal in AZ, but in MT it is illegal to have trail cams out during hunting seasons; I don't know how this might play out if a landowner claimed he was using them for security reasons--in his apple orchard or alfalfa field ( ).

BUT--to get to my topic: A couple of days ago I visited a friend who was given a "toy" drone as a gift. This toy only had a range of 100 feet or so, but it made us think about how more sophisticated equipment might be used for scouting game. What do all you levergunners think about the ethics of using drones in scouting/hunting and are any of you aware of regulations restricting such use in your area?

I suspect there may be some differences of opinion. I personally think that this would be carrying technology too far, but I know some of you likely think that loads using percussion caps, rather than flint, are too "new-fangled".

[Blaine]

Not in Washington state...

[walks with gun]

I think if I saw one of those blessed things while I was out with a shotgun in my hands, it would be open season on drones.

[Old No7]

I think if I saw one of those blessed things while I was out with a shotgun in my hands, it would be open season on drones.

I think a guy in KY already DID THAT when a drone was spotted spying on his teenage daughter... (And yes, I would have done the same...)

And Mike "Dirty Jobs" Rowe reportedly had an encounter with one too...

Best video I've seen to date, was the one where someone was using a drone to closely observe tigers in the wild... LOL, he found out those tigers can JUMP HIGHER than was thought!!! (To which I say "Good Tiger!")

Like anything "good"... Someone will find an evil or illegal way to use it, if they have evil or illegal tendencies.

We'll have to draw the line on drones somewhere, I think, but I'm pretty sure we don't know "where" to draw it yet...

As for hunting... I spoke with a Maine Game Warden who suspected it's only a matter of time before somebody uses a higher-end drone to scout 1/2 mile -- or more -- ahead, or away from the roads for moose or deer.

I'd rather see us use "boots on the ground" to find game -- and earn it. The game deserves that much from us.

Old No7

[mohavesam]

AZ prohibits "aircraft" for use in aiding any hunt on permit-tag big game. UAVs are aircraft.
"The AZGFD says anyone with information about an individual who is using a drone to pursue, disturb, harass or locate wildlife is encouraged to contact the department’s Operation Game Thief hotline." Cash rewards are offered.

In my travels, a UAV buzzing through the forest while I'm hunting, given that my license only came through a months-long wait for the lottery, many expensive hours driving to my hunt areas; weeks and months scouting and hundreds of dollars if not thousands, plus vacation time and other costs many endure - having a "drone" or UAV buzzing around is a target, period.

Probably would make me go look for the operator to have a discussion. I've done the same with camo'ed pinheads puttering around the logging trails on quads during the few days I have to hunt.

Similarly, I've always wondered about gun makers marketing guns with appliance rails, when most states prohibit lights and lasers (such as AZ) when hunting.

[Pete44ru]

.

IMO, it too early in the personally-owned drone area, for there to be much specific legislation for or against their use.

IMO, the slothful (lazy) person(s) will always find a way to get whatever accomplished, with the least self-effort.

I'm simply glad that I most likely will have already gone for my Dirt Nap, when all the chickens in this country come home to roost.


.

[GunnyMack]

I believe drone use is illegal in a few states for the pursuit of game.
Alaska doesn't allow flying & hunting the same day, drone use is the same as far as I'm concerned.

[AJMD429]

I think a drone over my 'airspace' would be likely to have some malfunctions [ ] unless I had given it permission (or if it were a legal and legitimate government one ).

I also think that if it stays below the airplane-danger level, I'd feel no guilt running one anywhere over MY property to just look at game, or coyotes, or whatever, but I'd feel it a bit unethical and potentially something one could abuse if done WHILE hunting.

[jnyork]

Wyoming: " No person shall use any aircraft with the intent to spot, locate and aid in the taking of any game animal from August 1 through January 31 of the following calendar year. "

In this regulation, the term "aircraft" includes drones.

[Griff]

"Ethics" aside, I can see viable and legitimate uses in game management. Even in actual hunting their use will be deemed moral & ethical in some locales and quite opposite in others. I would not see an issue in using a drone as a passive tool in locating & identifying game, much the same as binoculars or spotting scopes are used. Using one, even as an active tool, as in driving or herding deer to a shooter differs little from having family or friends perform that task.

As the OP noted, increases in efficiency is probably probably on an order of magnitude far greater than stepping from a match lock to your run-of-the-mill cartridge bolt gun, maybe more akin to the gap between the run-of-the-mill cartridge bolt gun & a night vision, range finding scoped bolt gun employing a laser guided bullet. How the drone is employed is where the ethical question lies... IMO.

[marlinman93]

Not in Oregon either. You can scout with a drone, but can't hunt within 24 hours of using one.

[Batman1939]

Thanks for that info Sam; this is news to me and I'll bet a lot of guys wouldn't know the aircraft stuff also applies to drones. I was aware of the restrictions regarding aircraft (in the more traditional sense of the word.

I don't hunt much in AZ anymore since I'm in MT during fall seasons.

[Batman1939]

HELP ANYONE? Somehow I managed to "double post" this topic. Is there a simple way to combine the two threads. If not, I'm glad to learn the opinions of others in any event.

SORRY

[jeepnik]

As an aside, I recently saw video of drones that ISIS is using to drop mortar shells onto APC and such. One was an obvious direct hit and the APC was destroyed.

You can bet that our government, for our own good , will start to restrict drone usage more and more.

[Blaine]

As an aside, I recently saw video of drones that ISIS is using to drop mortar shells onto APC and such. One was an obvious direct hit and the APC was destroyed.

You can bet that our government, for our own good , will start to restrict drone usage more and more.

I'm not sure "they" know what they want to do about them. I read that it's illegal to shoot at them. I can only imagine the damaging mischief and mayhem criminals and terrorists could do with them.

[vancelw]

I read that it's illegal to shoot at them.

I think that's "iffy."

One guy who got in trouble for shooting one hovering around his daughter did because he discharged a firearm in the city limits. (They left that part out of the internet "news" wanting you to think he got in trouble over the drone itself)

You know where I live, Blaine...if one is in shotgun range it's fair game. A legal one has to fly higher than that. And there's no doubt it's on my property if it's within a 40 yard shot. If it gets away I'll do whatever I can to follow it back to the source.

On a nice note, at my current job we have standing orders to shoot drones first and ask permission later. I keep hoping....

[AJMD429]

They would probably be hard to hit, however I suspect many ranch owners and other do-it-yourselfers will probably just make their own drones with some anti-drone capabilities...

[Merle]

I think if I saw one of those blessed things while I was out with a shotgun in my hands, it would be open season on drones.

I hear you, but keep in mind this could get you involved with the Feds.

[Buck Elliott]

An over-zealous drone "pilot" got himself in trouble very recently, for flying his craft over some elk on the National Elk Refuge in Jackson.. The buzzing whirligig stampeded a couple hundred head through deep snow, nearly clear across the Refuge, adding extra stress to the already-beleagured animals..

Please let Hunting remain "hunting", adhering to the rules and principles of Fair Chase..

"Technology" is proving to be the downfall of human society and existence..

[FWiedner]

I don't see the difference between using photos from a drone and using satellite photos to get the lay of an area.

I believe that what a fellow does on his own land is his private business.

Using a drone to locate live pest animals like hogs or managed herd and game animals for management purposes is saved time, but using them to harass other hunters or to locate game during a live hunt is un-sportsman-like, and probably illegal.

[marlinman93]

I don't see the difference between using photos from a drone and using satellite photos to get the lay of an area.

I believe that what a fellow does on his own land is his private business.

Using a drone to locate live pest animals like hogs or managed herd and game animals for management purposes is saved time, but using them to harass other hunters or to locate game during a live hunt is un-sportsman-like, and probably illegal.

I would agree if the private land owner has fences high enough to keep game from entering his land. If his fences allow wild game to enter, then he's given up the right to do what he wants to take them.
I also think that pest control falls into a different category than hunting. Whatever it takes to maintain control of pests on a person's private property is their business.

[mohavesam]

Interesting that some of us here see "drones" as Libjits see guns - we first focus on illegal uses (real or imagined) as the most likely uses, therefore "there should be a law against..." these types of machines.

"Drones don't kill. Drone operators do."

Huh.

[Merle]

I wonder about folks with limited mobility using drones to scout - something like being able to use motor vehicles to be mobile in the woods?

[jeepnik]

They would probably be hard to hit, however I suspect many ranch owners and other do-it-yourselfers will probably just make their own drones with some anti-drone capabilities...

You know, aerial combat between drones could become a sport. Just mount paintball guns on them. Since they are mostly light weight plastic, a good hit with a paint ball would likely damage something seriously enough to bring the target down.

[hondo1892]

I would like a drone for checking my place out. Might be able to catch the person/people that have been stealing my trail camera's and ginseng plant's. But the hundred feet ones wouldn't work for that purpose. Also locating a deer on my place with one wouldn't do me any good. By the time I climbed the ridge it was on I'd be to tuckered to shoot. The deer would probably be long gone too. I've seen them on opposite ridges before in glass and never made it to them before they were long off my property. I keep trail camera's out and they have never helped my hunting any. I see more bucks but only from my camera not in real life.

[Grizz]

I'm thinking I'd use an AR platform because it'd be easier to operate remotely than a levergun.

The mechanism to cycle a levergun suspended from a drone would destabilize the aircraft and make aiming more difficult.

The other fun thing will be driving the venisons into a kill zone with a couple of drones the same way aircraft are used to herd cattle and horses. Much safer than driving with people, who might get shot as they are moving the animals toward the shooters.

And then right over on the other hand, how long before someone has a stealth robot out there? It can take down the animal, butcher it, wrap and mark the cuts, and carry it all out while I sit in camp and watch the video of the action.

Lots of room for entrepenurial activity coming up guys. Someone's gonna do it.

[FWiedner]

And then right over on the other hand, how long before someone has a stealth robot out there? It can take down the animal, butcher it, wrap and mark the cuts, and carry it all out while I sit in camp and watch the video of the action.

Lots of room for entrepenurial activity coming up guys. Someone's gonna do it.

A hunter/butcher-bot.

Wow. Who can't see a hundred scary uses for that contraption?

[1894c]

Mr Elliott is RIGHT...nothing like a undocumented covert drone strike to screw things up... :O

drone_strike.jpg

[Batman1939]

An over-zealous drone "pilot" got himself in trouble very recently, for flying his craft over some elk on the National Elk Refuge in Jackson.. The buzzing whirligig stampeded a couple hundred head through deep snow, nearly clear across the Refuge, adding extra stress to the already-beleagured animals..

Please let Hunting remain "hunting", adhering to the rules and principles of Fair Chase..

"Technology" is proving to be the downfall of human society and existence..

VERY WELL SAID !!

[jnyork]

An over-zealous drone "pilot" got himself in trouble very recently, for flying his craft over some elk on the National Elk Refuge in Jackson.. The buzzing whirligig stampeded a couple hundred head through deep snow, nearly clear across the Refuge, adding extra stress to the already-beleagured animals..

Please let Hunting remain "hunting", adhering to the rules and principles of Fair Chase..

"Technology" is proving to be the downfall of human society and existence..

VERY WELL SAID !!

Yes indeed.

[tman]

It's one step away from Shooting your"Trophy"from a helicopter.

[.45colt]

In city's or open rural land they will be an issue. out in the country in heavily wooded/ mountain land I bet they are going to catch some goose loads.

[AJMD429]

2017-03-05-17-21-50-1416021198.jpg

....be a good excuse to get one of these.....

[cas]

Hmmm... if I knew where to send the drone to see deer, I'd just go there myself.


When I think about it, personally I can only think of one way it would be of any use to me in terms of hunting. And that would be not to spot game, but other hunters. There's nothing I hate more than planning on going somewhere, walking there only to find a truck parked there already. If I could send it down the road to look for cars and trucks before I left the house, that could save me an hour of wasted time. But THAT probably wouldn't fall under the definition of any game law. (until now, I never that I had a use for a drone, but man that would save me lots of wasted time and effort)

[gundownunder]

Welcome to the 21st century.

200 years ago you would have gone after your deer with a muzzle loader, would you have grabbed a 30-30 if it was available then?

100 years ago you would have gone out to the deer fields in a horse and cart, would you have taken the Jeep if it was available then?

If you want sport, leave the drone at home, but if you want to eat, and the law allows it, take the drone.

Of course, everyone else in the deer fields is entitled to enjoy their day too, and it would be your responsibility to make sure your drone doesn't interfere in that.

[AJMD429]

There's nothing I hate more than planning on going somewhere, walking there only to find a truck parked there already. If I could send it down the road to look for cars and trucks before I left the house, that could save me an hour of wasted time.

Several times when away to college, I'd plan to come home and pitch a tent on the family homestead, but my mother was elderly and didn't get down in the bottomland or up in the hills much, so the 25 acres was typically filled with other people camping or fishing, and when all the good places were taken, I'd have to either evict someone so I had a place to pitch my tent, or I'd just give up and avoid all the drama, and sleep in the house.

Trespassers and poachers deserve NO respect. Maybe a drone that dropped a gallon of bird poop on the intruder would be useful, after all...