Powder Experiments - IraqVeteran8888

[AJMD429]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug

[Blaine]

I feel bad for the rifle....

[earlmck]

A very enjoyable video. I was most interested that with all the hype of "don't ever use smokeless in your muzzleloader -- even 3 grains can be fatal" -- it took a ridiculous charge of 80 grains of Titegroup (faster than Bullseye) to really ruin the gun. I tried running that in QuickLoad, but even a 45/120 sharps would only hold 75 grains of titegroup behind the roundball. At that point it showed 180K psi, which would destroy any modern rifle. The load they used with 80 grains of H110 would fit compressed in a 45/90 and QL estimated 85K psi with the roundball. And that H110 load in their video with the muzzleloaders blew the hammer back to full cock and put a little bulge in the barrel but left the gun in condition to be shot again. Shoot a load with that pressure in your modern bolt action and you'd be out of business until you got back to the shop where you could pound the bolt open.

I was most impressed that the caps set off their smokeless powder with no apparent problem. When I ran smokeless in a muzzleloader I was forced to use a few grains of black at the bottom as a priming charge because the caps I used then would not set off the smokeless. So I still had to clean the danged rifle at the end of the day, which was what I was trying to avoid.

I'm quite sure a lot of us old reloaders have used smokeless in a modern manufactured muzzleloader: we just used a charge more reasonable for the job at hand.

[AJMD429]

I'm quite sure a lot of us old reloaders have used smokeless in a modern manufactured muzzleloader: we just used a charge more reasonable for the job at hand.

Yeah, I've used nothing but AA 5744 and SR 4759 in my muzzleloader, but they are a much more appropriate burn rate; Both are actually recommended by the manufacturer (Savage), as is IMR 4227.

[AmBraCol]

I'm quite sure a lot of us old reloaders have used smokeless in a modern manufactured muzzleloader: we just used a charge more reasonable for the job at hand.

That's how I blew the barrel up on a Ruger Old Army. It wasn't the powder that was the problem, it was the lube. It had contaminated the powder charge (wasn't smart enough then to think of using regular bullet lube, was using some OxYoke Wonderlube or something like that) so when I went to unload the sixgun after it had done duty as a pillow pistol for a few months, the first chamber didn't fire - and I didn't hear the cap go off because I had my hearing protection on. The gun cycled fine and the next shot kicked a LOT harder than normal. It was night so it wasn't until I stepped into the light again that the reason for the ram to no longer snap back in place was the catch was missing. The catch was missing because the bulge towards the base of the ram had caused the ram to snap down abruptly, launching the catch to who knows where. The bulge was there because the when the two slugs exited "stage left" they left a gaping door open in the side of the barrel, part of the bottom portion of the exit hatch became that bulge.

So the Especial de Caça powder did a great job of not needing cleaned as often as the Elefante FFFg powder usually burned in the sixgun. BUT it got contaminated in that one chamber. The cap forced the conical slug into the barrel and the next slug came crashing into it at ??? PSI.

I always wondered what the guys at Ruger said when they opened the box and found a blown barrel on an Old Army.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Cannot imagine the PSI it would take to "remodel" a ROA. That had to be one ball of fire and up close !
I figure if a chamber full of 3f cannot get the job done it is time for the 50 Alaskan.
Mike in Peru

[earlmck]

I'm quite sure a lot of us old reloaders have used smokeless in a modern manufactured muzzleloader: we just used a charge more reasonable for the job at hand.

That's how I blew the barrel up on a Ruger Old Army. It wasn't the powder that was the problem, it was the lube.
I always wondered what the guys at Ruger said when they opened the box and found a blown barrel on an Old Army.

I'll bet they could make a pretty good guess at what happened. Did they fix it free of charge?

[FWiedner]

I like that: "It's just screwin' around until you record it, then it's SCIENCE..."

[AmBraCol]

Greetings
Cannot imagine the PSI it would take to "remodel" a ROA. That had to be one ball of fire and up close !
I figure if a chamber full of 3f cannot get the job done it is time for the 50 Alaskan.
Mike in Peru

The Especial de Caça was to cut down on the cleaning time, and it worked great - as long as I loaded and shot it soon after. This happened after it had been loaded for quite a while and the runny lube ran into the powder which lead to the problem.

AmBraCol wrote:
earlmck wrote:
I'm quite sure a lot of us old reloaders have used smokeless in a modern manufactured muzzleloader: we just used a charge more reasonable for the job at hand.



That's how I blew the barrel up on a Ruger Old Army. It wasn't the powder that was the problem, it was the lube.
I always wondered what the guys at Ruger said when they opened the box and found a blown barrel on an Old Army.

I'll bet they could make a pretty good guess at what happened. Did they fix it free of charge?

Nope. Seems like it cost me a whole $75 or $80 for the repair. That was late in the last century, so don't recall for sure.