help needed with early winchester 94 hammer id

[jringo8769]

Well i find myself now bringing back two pre 1900 winchester 94's and one has i think the correct checkered hammer and the other one is much later style like the 50's ...i have asked locally and i am told the real early ones are called Tomestone hammers?...my question is when did these hammer changes come about?....it is not a checkering style i have seen on any of the other ones i have handled so far....was this only available on the first couple of years?...
here is a pic of what i think i should have....one is a 1896 rifle and the other one is a 1897 SRC....i think they both should have these hammers....i see a very similar hammer without the point and i am not sure when those were changed too...
any help will so be appreciated...God Bless,John

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[Sixgun]

John,
It's an early one...I have the same on a four digit 94 and according to my books, that style was used
for the first 115,000 guns. It's supposed to have 14 lines and 14 diamonds. The next style looks the same but with 15 lines/diamonds and does not have the little "curve" in the middle.---6

[Pete44ru]

.i have asked locally and i am told the real early ones are called Tomestone hammers?...my question is when did these hammer changes come about

was this only available on the first couple of years?...

i see a very similar hammer without the point and i am not sure when those were changed too...


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Pictured is a "first design" (of three) case-colored hammer, most often called the "pointed top" or "spit top" design, which was made from SN 1 in 1894.

Production of that design ceased at about SN 110,000 - but, due to Winchester's parts bin parts storing system, are seen regularly above that SN, becoming very scarce around SN 200,000.

caveat: Hammers of the first & second design, used on double-set trigger guns have been seen on guns with a much higher SN, and look the same as any other first or second design hammer on top, but are configured slightly differently in the lower section to accommodate the additional parts involved with DST's.



The "second design", referred to as the "tombstone" design, has no point in the checkering pattern, and was made with case-colors until a little before SN 700,000, when the finish was changed to bluing over the case-hardening.

The second design hammers had differing checkering, border design & overall quality over it's production life, which lasted until the introduction of the "flatband" model after WWII, around SN ,350,000.




The "third design" was the one with no checkering (just cross grooves) was also made in different versions/eras:

Type 3A (all post-war pre-64's)
Type 3B (post-64 to about SN 4,580,000)
Type 3C (rebound w/half-cock)
Type 3D (rebound, no half-cock)
Type 3E (threaded hole for offset hammer spur).

.

[Griff]

Pete, you forgot type 3B-½, s/n 4,5280,000 to introduction of AE rebounding hammer.
Pictured here on left

[Pete44ru]

Pete, you forgot type 3B-½, s/n 4,5280,000 to introduction of AE rebounding hammer.

Pictured here on left

I've never heard of a Type 3B-1/2 hammer, Griff.

As to the leftmost hammer, the small notch in the back face of the hammer above the pivot hole, to accept the then ( about SN 4,580,000) coil mainspring & such, plus the half-cock notch on the bottom, makes it a Type 3C Hammer (from SN 4,580,000 to SN 5,100,000)

What I see in the pic is (from L to R) Type 3C, Type 3B, & Type 3A.

.

[Booger Bill]

I have been sleeping in a cave the last 40 years or so. I own 4 old Winchester levers plus a couple 92 clones. I keep reading about the rebounding hammers, truth is I really don't understand just what they are but do know no one likes them. What is it all about?

[Griff]

As to the leftmost hammer, the small notch in the back face of the hammer above the pivot hole, to accept the then ( about SN 4,580,000) coil mainspring & such, plus the half-cock notch on the bottom, makes it a Type 3C Hammer (from SN 4,580,000 to SN 5,100,000)
What I see in the pic is (from L to R) Type 3C, Type 3B, & Type 3A.
.

Ah... I agree, but you had it listed as a "rebound". The rebound has two of those notches on the back of the hammer...

[Pete44ru]

Ah... I agree, but you had it listed as a "rebound".

Gotcha - Thanks for picking up on that.


Bill, the rebounding hammer is a "lawyer safety" that several different gun makers (besides Winchester) have added to their exposed hammer firearms, as a way to ensure that the exposed hammer won't rest/land directly on the firing pin (sic) over a chambered cartridge unless the trigger is pulled with the hammer at full cock.

When in the rebound position, the distance from the hammer to the FP, and the reverse pressure from the mainspring against forward hammer travel, through the lower fork of the MS strut, keeps the hammer from developing sufficient energy to ignite a primer if/when the hammer is struck by whatever.

.

[jringo8769]

well thank u all for the very detailed answers....well it looks like they were kinda right...but wrong...so i need the first style as both guns are 115,000 and earlier....the rifle is 52,000 range and the src is close to 100,000 range...so now i will need to find one of these...glad i have one so far...God Bless,John
i will post some pics of them both here very soon....so appreciate all the help...this is why i love this place

[Pete44ru]

so i need the first style as both guns are 115,000 and earlier....the rifle is 52,000 range and the src is close to 100,000 range...

so now i will need to find one of these

If you look in your hand, you'll find the First Design hammer - as that is what the hammer pictured in your OP is.


.

[Booger Bill]

Thanks for that answer. I had forgot posting the question and just run across this. Okay I understand the function but why is it hated so much? Does it adversely affect the action smoothness and trigger pull or what?

[Griff]

Thanks for that answer. I had forgot posting the question and just run across this. Okay I understand the function but why is it hated so much? Does it adversely affect the action smoothness and trigger pull or what?

The rebounding hammer in theory, works wonderfully, but... there'll be that errant example that for whatever reason, seems to begin it's "rebounding" before it's fully expended it's energy in the forward direction... causing light primer blows, or inconsistent blows at the very least. And some people just simply don't trust a gun without the half cock notch.

[J Miller]

Thanks for that answer. I had forgot posting the question and just run across this. Okay I understand the function but why is it hated so much? Does it adversely affect the action smoothness and trigger pull or what?

There are also those who grew up with the normal half cock action and just can not get used to the rebounding action. That would be me back in 1986 when I bought my one and only Win 94AE with that action. I could not switch back and forth between it and my regular 94s. It became a hazard because of my prior training.
So, I retro fitted my 94AE with a half cock lower tang, making all my 94s the same, and never looked back.

If all you have is one 94 or whatever with the rebounding action, and if the trigger is good enough (most are horribly heavy and creepy), you can get used to them. The light strikes Griff described seems to have been more prevalent with the 1886s than the 94s, but I've read reports of it happening with all the models that have that action design.
I've cured this by simply refusing to buy any more. One was enough.

Joe