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I always enjoy when posters put up pictures of their lever rifles. I thought I might contribute a few pictures of a rather special deluxe 1886 Winchester I acquired a few years back. This take down rifle was very unique in that it was ordered with an extra interchangeable barrel.
Both barrels are octagon, one is the standard length of 26 inches, the other is a 24". According to research from records available at the Cody Firearms museum, only 39 Model 1886's of the nearly 160,000 manufactured were ordered with 2 barrels. Of those, probably only a fraction remain together intact. A unique rifle.
That one is breathtaking . One thing for sure whoever ordered that 86 was well heeled, it had to be expensive...any way of finding out the history of it's owners?
I wonder why someone would order both barrels in .45-70, with only a 2" difference in length, instead of one of the nine other/alternate chamberings for the 2nd barrel ?????
You and I have talked a lot about 86's over the years and by Lordy that is a real BEAUTY. Did you get that from the same guy where you got the heavy barreled one from?
What's unusual is that both barrels are in 45-70......I bet yours is the only one like that as I've heard of 45-70/45-90 combos......Another thing, you and I both know that expensive guns have a much lower rate of attrition....as to "disappearing" compared to standard run-of-the-mill guns but still 39! Most likely out of the 39, 5 are in museums, 10 are overseas in King's gunrooms, 10 are gone forever.......
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There is another difference in the barrels I did not mention (also not mentioned in the factory letter...most likely due to lack of space on the factory ledger).
The 26" barrel is of standard heft. The 24" barrel is a rapid taper octagon....something that is very rare in a shorter barrel itself. This following photo of the muzzles illustrates the relative difference in barrel weight.
This solves the mystery of why two barrels of the same caliber.....one standard heft, likely for target work, and a shorter lighter one for hunting. The inclusion of a upgraded tang sight indicate someone wanted to use the rifle for precision shooting.
I have a copy of the factory ledger page for this rifle and there is simply no room for to list any additional information. If fact, the amount of information is so cramped there now that it takes a magnifying glass to make out all entire listing.
As for the original buyer or shipping records, the vast majority of 1886 have none of that information available.
Pete44ru wrote:I wonder why someone would order both barrels in .45-70, with only a 2" difference in length, instead of one of the nine other/alternate chamberings for the 2nd barrel ?????
Yeah, was wondering the same thing.
Beautiful gun though.
Gotta admit, the only reason I'd get a 'takedown' gun myself would either be to have some barrels to swap (kinda like my TC Encore, or my AR-15), or - just for the 'cool' factor.
I'm betting 'back in the day' they weren't just ordering takedowns for the 'cool' factor, though - was it for more discrete travel...?
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There is another difference in the barrels I did not mention (also not mentioned in the factory letter...most likely due to lack of space on the factory ledger).
The 26" barrel is of standard heft. The 24" barrel is a rapid taper octagon....something that is very rare in a shorter barrel itself. This following photo of the muzzles illustrates the relative difference in barrel weight.
This solves the mystery of why two barrels of the same caliber.....one standard heft, likely for target work, and a shorter lighter one for hunting.
I have a copy of the factory ledger page for this rifle and there is simply no room for to list any additional information. If fact, the amount of information is so cramped there now that it takes a magnifying glass to make out all entire listing.
Yes - That difference makes perfect sense to me now.
That would be the crown jewel of most Winchester collections ... absolutely gorgeous, and in my favourite '86 caliber. My theory is that the rapid taper barrel was for situations where the rifle would be carried all day (i.e., some forms of hunting). If shooting targets, or hunting from a stand, the heavier octagon barrel would be used.
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That is just incredible. As stated above, with only 39 manufactured, I bet the number of two-barrels in the same chambering was single digits.
You, sir, own a treasure.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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That gun sure makes my 1886 look shabby.
That is an absolute gem of a rifle.
The timber is beautiful.
You are a lucky man to own a treasure like that.
Pop.
Does that tang sight clear your eye? Been wanting to add one to my browning 86 carbine, but have horror stories of them "putting your eye out" or that an old wives tale?
I have never had a problem with tang sights hitting me in the eye during recoil.....and I have them mounted on some heavy hitters. I would think that those who have been hit might consider evaluating their shooting technique.
Any deluxe takedown 1886 would be a 1886 collector's dream! But add to that a two barrel set, and it's hard to describe how cool it is! A very, very nice set!
simply incredible find...u are a very blessed for sure...thank u for sharing it...
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veeman wrote:I wonder if the rate of twist is the same in both barrels?
I was wondering the same thing. Fantastic rifle, but I couldn't see the point in only 2" difference in barrel length of the same caliber unless they were perhaps different twist.
I love how the letter says "checkered stock", like they were just passing by the wood pile and pulled a piece from wherever. That thing is stunning. I think someone did a lot of sorting to find that gem.
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3855, Is there any chance You could weigh the rifle with each of the barrels? It would be pretty nice to know how much less the rapid taper barrel weighed than the heavier one. Thanks.
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:I love how the letter says "checkered stock", like they were just passing by the wood pile and pulled a piece from wherever. That thing is stunning. I think someone did a lot of sorting to find that gem.
Winchester seemed sporadic on their records of special order items. Sometimes they mention extra grade wood in the records by their rating system of using X's. I had a couple 1885 Winchesters with deluxe wood, and both were pistol grips. One a High Wall, and one a Low Wall. The Low Wall had XXX on the left lower tang under the buttstock. The High Wall had the same XXX on the tang. But letters for the two guns indicated the Low Wall was shipped with XXX wood, but no mention on the High Wall.
They seem too be pretty good about mentioning pistol grip stocks, checkering, set triggers, but often omit grade of wood, or special sights.
With the standard weight and length barrel, the rifle weighs 9 lbs 9 oz. With the shorter rapid taper barrel attached, it weighs 8 lb 15oz. Not a huge difference but the balance point does change noticibly (roughly 2" further forward onto the forend with the heavy barrel). The rifle also does not feel as nearly muzzle heavy.
We can speculate all we want....but the original buyer ordered and got what he wanted....not needing to justify to anyone else. A prize for sure in 1897. If we could only order one as nice today.
Thank you, I was curious how much difference the tapered octagon made. I've never owned a tapered, only straight octagon. The forward weight bias is great for shooting offhand, but hunting in the thick is another story.
Again, that is an absolutely beautiful 86.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
Had an 1893 Marlin deluxe two barrel set, and often people asked why such similar calibers. One was a 28" half octagon .32-40, while the other was a 24" half octagon .32 Winchester Special. I always figured the buyer liked .32 caliber, and by ordering one barrel 2" over standard, and one 2" under standard, he got both .32 calibers, but one lighter, and one heavier.
Did you get that from the same guy where you got the heavy barreled one from?
or that an old wives tale?
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