Homemade EBRs

[Blaine]

For you guys (Grizz?) that assemble your own, and shoot them a lot, are they 100% reliable in cycling? I've never owned an EBR, but shot many different ones during the course of a 20 year military stint. They were all fired at the range, or training, and never subjected to the rigors and dirt of a combat situation. Without fail, in the course of dozens of rounds or so, I'd get at least one FTF, or cycling jam. I always sort of wondered about a design that included a forward assist because the makers assumed they would jam at some time ... My levers are not 100 percent cyclers. My civilian-type semi-autos are not 100%. The only weapons that have ran, and cycled perfectly all the time are bolt actions. Ergo, my "EBR" is a Ruger Scout in 308.
Having said that, I'm tempted to go buy, or assemble a .308 EBR just because our idiot Muslim in Chief doesn't want me to have one.

[cas]

I've lost count of how many I've done. Only ever had one problem once. A new extractor spring fixed that. I've never owned a store bought one.

[Grizz]

I don't shoot them a lot. Frank will have good info.

The only failure I had involved popped primers from a 300 AAC, which I 'think' is ammo related. I have two .300 uppers and have not been able to replicate the problem, so I can't isolate it to one upper.

In Tx last winter we had 2 assembled 556 pistols and a 556 carbine, and my three kids, and they shot a lot of rounds over a couple of hours without any hint of problems. Everything was perfect. After I re-tightened a front sight.

I would recommend a PTR-91 as a consideration. It is probably inherently more reliable than the AR design. And you can buy one for about half of the component cost of the AR-10s. With the cheapest 20 round mags for any gun I know of. The newer 91s can have a welded pic rail which makes sighting aids a non issue.

Plus it isn't an 'assault rifle', it is a main battle rifle, and some of them are accurate enough for sniper duties.

Some will say that 556 is all you would ever need out to 500 meters, which is the common range of the 762 anyway. You can build a decent 556 from a kit from SAA, surplus ammo and arms, for under 600$. That's a complete upper and a lower parts kit. You get any AR-15 standard lower and presto boom-o. Thing to watch for is the twist rate, need fast enough to stabilize the heaviest bullet you will want to shoot, and if you really want 500 meter efficiency probably a 20" barrel. I get this stuff from Frank and trust his take on it. I hope he comments on this.

One more thing, I now have 4 AR-15 uppers. On all but one of them I can take a red dot sight off of one and put it on either of two others and get the same practical point of impact shooting at rifle range clays. One of the uppers doesn't exactly line up that way. I can swap them among lowers with the same result. So, 75% are so closely equal that they can share optics without fiddling. I think that's mind-boggeling, but it's also a crapshoot unless someone is a real armorer and has real need of greater precision than a gunfight.

randomly,

[Blaine]

Frank could probably make a good AR out of coat hangers, popsicle sticks, and rubber bands.

[Sixgun]

Blaine,
For the most part, brand name EBR's can be purchased relatively cheap. Bushmasters can be had for 6.....even the company who has been making them since the (Colt) early sixties can be had for under 8. The best "meat and potatoes" AR is the Colt 6920 and these babies will run till the cows come home.......I married the dairy farmers daughter....when cows make a break through the fence, they don't come home. .......

No brag, but my bud at Targetmaster takes care of me. I forgot the amount of times he gave me a case of 500 rounds and said, "go have fun". I'd burn through a case on a Sunday afternoon at my club (Atglen) and not caring about money or the gun, I'd smoke that 6920 red hot blasting clay birds on the bank from 2-500 meters......it always ran. Maybe when the gun was new there have been an extremely small amount of times when a stovepipe or something other happened. The times this happened was so small I don't even remember the specifics.

There were a dozen times that Tom and I would go to his place upstate and burn through several thousand rounds in his Colt machine guns.....I even shot a half of thou of my hand loads through his M-4 enhanced......semi...3 rd. burst...full auto and I do not remember ANY malfunctions.

If your looking to buy one, the Colt 6920 is the best bang for the buck with Bushmaster a close second. If interested, drop me a line and I'll steer ya right.----6

[Blaine]

Blaine,
For the most part, brand name EBR's can be purchased relatively cheap. Bushmasters can be had for 6.....even the company who has been making them since the (Colt) early sixties can be had for under 8. The best "meat and potatoes" AR is the Colt 6920 and these babies will run till the cows come home.......I married the dairy farmers daughter....when cows make a break through the fence, they don't come home. .......

No brag, but my bud at Targetmaster takes care of me. I forgot the amount of times he gave me a case of 500 rounds and said, "go have fun". I'd burn through a case on a Sunday afternoon at my club (Atglen) and not caring about money or the gun, I'd smoke that 6920 red hot blasting clay birds on the bank from 2-500 meters......it always ran. Maybe when the gun was new there have been an extremely small amount of times when a stovepipe or something other happened. The times this happened was so small I don't even remember the specifics.

There were a dozen times that Tom and I would go to his place upstate and burn through several thousand rounds in his Colt machine guns.....I even shot a half of thou of my hand loads through his M-4 enhanced......semi...3 rd. burst...full auto and I do not remember ANY malfunctions.

If your looking to buy one, the Colt 6920 is the best bang for the buck with Bushmaster a close second. If interested, drop me a line and I'll steer ya right.----6

I appreciate the offer. I'd probably go with a .308 if I jump on a semi-auto.....

[Sixgun]

Blaine,
You and I are both "old heads" and have been somewhat brainwashed into thinking the 308 is the "pelosi". And with yesterday's AR's, that thinking is right. Up until about 7-8 years ago you would almost have to give me an AR. My son got me involved and what an awakening I got. The .223 performs like a .22 L.R....in other words, way out of its proportion. With the newer 1-7 twist 69 grain Sierra's hit small targets way out there. I was amazing at its accuracy....rivaling my Remington 700 Varmint in 22-250. Green tip ammo will zip right on though heavy plate. Recoil is zip...nothing. Ain't nothing to hang a dozen 30 round mags in a sack of some sort.

I've also have an M1-A and if things ever got testy I'd pick an AR in .223 without thinking. ----6

[Malamute]

Without fail, in the course of dozens of rounds or so, I'd get at least one FTF, or cycling jam. I always sort of wondered about a design that included a forward assist because the makers assumed they would jam at some time ...

I think its not unusual to have the very well worn GI range guns malfunction. I think that many in the .mil system seem to think that using a magazine until it falls apart is gospel somehow. The nguy that runs Battlefield Las Vegas that rents full auto guns has said that theyve gotten 200K rounds through the basic receivers of some of their rental guns. The small bits do need attention now and then, as all guns do.

The forward assist isn't for "jams". I cant figure out how it would help in event of a jam of any sort. Its to close the bolt completely on a round when first chambering. For some reason its not considered a sin to have a bolt/operating rod handle to push forward for the same purpose on an M1 Garand or M14, M1 carbine, etc. Its considered standard procedure to push the handle forward on an M1 when first chambering a round, as the bolt doesn't have the same momentum as when firing. Ive had to do it on M1s a number of times. They never failed to function when fired, but wouldn't always close completely on the first round. The AR/M15 design doesn't have a reciprocating bolt handle to ensure the first round chambered and the bolt locked all the way down. The forward assist is also handy when doing a chamber check.

I haven't been able to figure out what all the animosity is about over the forward assist. Its a simple mechanism that serves a purpose that other guns had as part of their design. The FA's don't break down, cause malfunctions, or otherwise cause any trouble. The only down side Ive found is it makes the gun a bit more lumpy to sleep on.

For some interesting reading,

31,000 rounds. Cleaned once. Small parts replaced as needed. Lubed liberally. It was used in classes, 1300 rds in 3 days each time it was used.

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-ma ... filthy-14/

RE worn out magazines, ive read of several guys that were in Iraq asking for fresh magazines because they were worn or damaged. They were refused, as they didn't look bad. They often met with some catastrophic disaster before getting back to base, almost as if they had been curb stomped. Fresh magazines run well. Damaged and worn out ones not so much. Don't get emotionally attached to magazines, of any sort. If they exhibit problems, destroy them and move on.

[Blaine]

This is what we learned in the Army (and, my only experience with the infernal contraption)
I do know this: A small size WD-40, as long as you didn't get caught with it, sprayed into the action kept that puppy working properly, for the most part. Especially in cold weather. "They" tended to get mad if you used anything but GI lube.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/a ... uide.shtml

[horsesoldier03]

Blaine,

I have built 4 ARs now, all Palmetto State Armory. All have been completed for less than $550. All have fired reliably with NO MISFIRES or FTF or FTE for over 500. Prices are going up, and will only get higher if HiLIARy is elected and unfortunately that seems highly likely. My FIL (age 74) actually shocked me, after I built my first two rifles, he shot one for the first time and had me build him one. He and all his friends love it, and for the reason that SIX stated, it is like shooting a .22. I get all his ammo for him and typically purchase only M855 62 gr LAP and the 69 grain OTM. ARs are a lot like LEGOs, all you need is quality parts and MILSPEC is fine.

Just noticed, they are sold out on most upper assemblies and rifle kits right now. Seems like the frenzy is on. I just picked up some more parts over the 4th JULY weekend during their FREEDOM SALE.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15-05/rifle-kits.html

[AJMD429]

My first few AR's were purchased uppers I added to lowers I bought naked* and added parts to as I could afford it.

No problems with any of those. Then hard times hit and I sold those.

The next phase was lots of parts-swapping just to make a functioning Franken-AR out of stuff on hand so I had an AR again.

Then over the years I'd want to try a new forend, barrel length, trigger type, or stock, so I did lots of mix-and-match using parts from Bushmaster, DPMS, CMMG, and others. None of those had any problems either.

The last build was started when I wasn't satisfied with a 16" in 300 Blk that I had (slow twist versus my other one so not as accurate), so it was all taken apart. I had found out that my son couldn't pick up a birthday gift I'd gotten him because it was a stripped lower and he wasn't 21 yet....they are considered 'potential handguns'. That got me thinking maybe I should have an AR handgun... But I didn't want one in noisy 223, so my experience with 300 Blk got me thinking why not just get an 8" barrel, pistol-length gas-tube, and 'pistol' buffer tube, and make an AR Pistol for myself (..."sorry about that kid, Dad's gonna keep that birthday gift himself..." ).

I had all the other parts leftover from other builds.

So, even with mix-and-match stuff, some 'premium' parts, some generic, (and some 'tactical' even...!), none of these builds have had feed or function issues with probably 7,000 rounds between six or seven ones I've shot a lot, and another few I shot less.

For magazines I've used lots of mil-surp ones that were in really good condition, but mostly MagPul stuff lately.

One lower I got real cheap from a manufacturer I'd never heard of, needed some file-and-fit for parts to go in, but I'd just gotten a 338 Lapua upper (bolt action), and since the lower for that doesn't need a magazine release or the stuff to retain a buffer, I just made it a lower dedicated to that one upper. Other than that, no other parts I've bought really were bad.

*(actually, I was wearing clothes at the time)

[Griff]

I have two complete ARs, one a store bought Wyndham and the other a ground up build. Both are 5.56s and have had not had a problem with ammo that fit in my mags. All my mags are less than 5 years old... powdercoated aluminum and have Magpul followers. Like 1911s, I feel that ARs need good mags to work right. With ammo the right length, good mags, you shouldn't have any problems. I have two other lowers that I'm still in the deciding stages of "what to build". I'm just not interested in adding another cartridge to the list...

[Grizz]

Costs are rocketing up.

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-kit-5-56 ... -receiver/

I paid $360 delivered for this kit last October, 392$ with tax.

I'd say the time to buy is bye.

[Grizz]

Costs are rocketing up.

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-kit-5-56 ... -receiver/

I paid $360 delivered for this kit last October, 392$ with tax.

I'd say the time to buy is bye.

anyhow, I'm done except for finding a big bore upper for one of the kit guns. maybe trade a 300 towards one for the bear woods.

[AJMD429]

anyhow, I'm done except for finding a big bore upper for one of the kit guns. maybe trade a 300 towards one for the bear woods.

I bought my 50 Beowulf as an intact upper, so not 'homemade', but it works flawlessly (nearly all factory ammo so far).

Between the 223, 50 Beowulf, 338 Lapua, and 300 Blackout, there is not much an "AR" can't be set up to do.

[Ysabel Kid]

Having said that, I'm tempted to go buy, or assemble a .308 EBR just because our idiot Muslim in Chief doesn't want me to have one.

I can't think of a better reason than that!

[Grizz]

anyhow, I'm done except for finding a big bore upper for one of the kit guns. maybe trade a 300 towards one for the bear woods.

I bought my 50 Beowulf as an intact upper, so not 'homemade', but it works flawlessly (nearly all factory ammo so far).

Between the 223, 50 Beowulf, 338 Lapua, and 300 Blackout, there is not much an "AR" can't be set up to do.

thanks Doc

I am undecided between Beo and 458, mostly because I am super comfortable with 458 and have bear defense bullets that I can load.

OTOH, there is the new car appeal of Beowulf . . . plus the smile value of the view towards the exit end . . .

[Blaine]

With all the different configurations available, is there a 20 gauge option with hi cap mags?

[fordwannabe]

My big bore upper is in 458. I also have 3 45-70s so bullets for one can be used for all. I picked up a 405 grain mold and a 340 grain so I am hoping to be able to use one of those. Also bought a sample of Berry's bullets in 458 350 grain. Time to experiment is the problem at this point. Tom

[AJMD429]

My big bore upper is in 458. I also have 3 45-70s so bullets for one can be used for all. I picked up a 405 grain mold and a 340 grain so I am hoping to be able to use one of those. Also bought a sample of Berry's bullets in 458 350 grain. Time to experiment is the problem at this point. Tom

I wound up selecting the Beowulf 'just because', but since then have aquired a BHA model 89 levergun in 500 S&W, so now have two ways to use 0.500" bullets at similar power levels. My Guide Gun is my only 0.458" bullet-spitter, so I will keep it for lighter loads and different bullet types.

[sore shoulder]

For you guys (Grizz?) that assemble your own, and shoot them a lot, are they 100% reliable in cycling? I've never owned an EBR, but shot many different ones during the course of a 20 year military stint. They were all fired at the range, or training, and never subjected to the rigors and dirt of a combat situation. Without fail, in the course of dozens of rounds or so, I'd get at least one FTF, or cycling jam. I always sort of wondered about a design that included a forward assist because the makers assumed they would jam at some time ... My levers are not 100 percent cyclers. My civilian-type semi-autos are not 100%. The only weapons that have ran, and cycled perfectly all the time are bolt actions. Ergo, my "EBR" is a Ruger Scout in 308.
Having said that, I'm tempted to go buy, or assemble a .308 EBR just because our idiot Muslim in Chief doesn't want me to have one.

I would say nothing is 100% Blaine. But you can get them pretty close. At least in the AR15 category. The .308 AR's are another animal that have their own particular kinks. In either case the Nickel Boron coated bolts and Melonite/salt bath/QPQ 5.56 (not .223) barrels are where I would start. A good case is made for the carbines with the mid length gas system, but I haven't encountered the issues they solve, and I get to see more rounds go down range from carbines than most. I'm currently working the kinks out of a pistol length gas system 5.56.

I'm one of those who has no use for the forward assist. If it hangs up going into battery and i cant push it in with my thumb, its probably going to hang up on extraction. I'm a big fan of the A1 slick side for simplicity and utility. All my future builds will be slick sides of either the A1 carry handle or flat top variety.

[sore shoulder]

I don't shoot them a lot. Frank will have good info.

The only failure I had involved popped primers from a 300 AAC, which I 'think' is ammo related. I have two .300 uppers and have not been able to replicate the problem, so I can't isolate it to one upper.

Grizz I had the same problem with my 300. Malamute suggested it was possibly due to a short throat, I'm inclined to think he's right. the ammo was the Rem 120 gr loaded by Barnes that Walmart carries. I have since put a 5.56 barrel on it.

After doing a lot more comparative research, I've been unable to come up with a real advantage to 300, even from the shorter barrels, and a long list of disadvantages. The heavier 5.56 bullets (70 gr solids and 75+ gr OTM's) have over 700 ft lbs energy at the muzzle from a 7.5" pistol and leave tremendous wound channels, and past 100 meters leave the 300 behind in both trajectory and energy (remember all comparisons of the 300 to 5.56 use a lopsided comparison. The custom tailored 300 rounds compared to a run of the mill 55gr is not a fair comparison of potential). Specifically the high BC solids are surpassing the heavier 75+gr bullets. There is a brown tip being used by specops, Black hills is loading a Hornady 70 gr 90% gilding metal bullet. The solids dont deform or deflect on bariers and leave massive wound channels due to the very long bullet rotating after around 7" of rotation. 300+ lb hogs are being dropped with one shot from carbines with penetration through both shoulders and turning everything in the middle into soup. the 75+ gr OTM's are right behind it in performance.

70gr Barnes from 7.5" pistol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVZKPoOKRRI

Go here and download the ballistic testing results pdf. look at the 70gr.
http://www.thenothingbox.tv/

[Grizz]

Thanks for the links Frank. I am keeping a carbine and 10.5" pistol. I would guess that given equal optics, they will be pretty close in performance to any practical range.

I am a fan of the slick side also and my carbine is slick.

the 'turning everything into soup' part is why I won't be hunting food with 556, besides not trusting it as a bear or bison stopper. It is a lot of fun to shoot.

But so is the .300. I am still attracted to the subsonic stuff. A better meat gun on paper. And the 125s are lethal to 500M, so it's not a complete dog.

How about posting up a picture of your favorite rifle setups? You mentioned a 20" barrel I think?

[sore shoulder]

And the 125s are lethal to 500M, so it's not a complete dog.

I would seriously question that my friend.

[Grizz]

And the 125s are lethal to 500M, so it's not a complete dog.

I would seriously question that my friend.

how 'bout 300M ?

[sore shoulder]

And the 125s are lethal to 500M, so it's not a complete dog.

I would seriously question that my friend.

how 'bout 300M ?

Here is a vid on the 77gr otm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFKI5LgaNg

Here is an interesting chart showing how the 262 performs from a longer barrel compared to other rounds.

https://www.shootersforum.com/attachmen ... istics.pdf

It beats the snot out of the 300blk in any barrel length both in trajectory and power. the BLK at 300 is a mortar from any barrel length. (btw max for a 300 is 16, after that it slows down).

The other contender is the 75 gr otm's, which in some studies have shown to have better performance than the 77gr, and they are a LOT easier to find and cheaper. PRVI loads a very good match 75gr that duplicates hornady TAP for a lot less money, I've been shooting them for years.

One thing to note, the 70gr solids from the 7.5" were keyholing, I hadnt noticed that before, the 1/7 doesn't stabilize them from a 7.5" barrel. I'll be sticking with the 75gr for now until someone comes out with a 1/6 pistol barrel in 5.56.

[horsesoldier03]

I prefer the 5.56 over the 300 BLK as well. However your ballistics are a little low. Supersonic velocities are close to 2200 for the 110 and 125 grains.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ultim ... ammo-test/

[sore shoulder]

I prefer the 5.56 over the 300 BLK as well. However your ballistics are a little low. Supersonic velocities are close to 2200 for the 110 and 125 grains.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ultim ... ammo-test/

I don't recall mentioning any 300 ballistics, other than commenting on the trajectory at 300M. I looked at the article, the only 124 I saw was the Sig and it didnt even make 2000fps.

The Barnes did make 2200. with a 25m zero and .295 BC it drops 10" at 300 with 532fpe.

The 77gr .362 bc from the same 10.5" length barrel chronos at 2360 consistently, with 25m zero, it drops 2.6" at 300 and has 508fpe.

70gr tsx .314 bc 10.5" bbl 2575fps 25m zero +1.8"/509fpe

From a 7.5" barrel the 77gr has 717fpe. The 300 has 836. The 70gr tsx has 812.


The 77gr from a 16" barrel gets 2700fps, the 110 from 16" gains about 100fps. And as you can see from the chart I linked a 20" barrel will give 2850fps and has over 500fpe at 500m. The 300 will lose velocity from that length, and I've never seen a 20" blk barrel. So there really is no clear advantage to the 300, and a lot of advantages from logistical, performance and versatility standpoints for the 77gr 5.56. start factoring in a 70gr solid

[horsesoldier03]

And the 125s are lethal to 500M, so it's not a complete dog.

It beats the snot out of the 300blk in any barrel length both in trajectory and power. the BLK at 300 is a mortar from any barrel length. (btw max for a 300 is 16, after that it slows down).

My apologies then, I interpreted the comment above as meaning 1600 fps as the max for a 300 blk.

[sore shoulder]

My comment was a little ambiguous. I meant to say a 16" barrel is the max length a 300 can use.

[AJMD429]

It can HIT the target out at 400-600 yards from what I've read, and I'm thinking a hit from it would be potentially deadly...

100,000 round 'range report' - https://youtu.be/tgKjbySsAik

400 yards - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJr-pjofI4Y

600 yards - https://youtu.be/dk1YCblnquU

1,000 yards - http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/ ... 38094.html

[sore shoulder]

As soon as that 1000yrd article mentioned Travis Haley and his 800m shooting I left the article. I watched that YouTube and Haley may have some creds with recon, black water and magpul but he knows next to nothing of the ballistics of either round which is painfully obvious by the erroneous statements he makes about the M4 ballistics at 300meters, AND in particular his long shots were obviously walked in by a spotter using about 27 rounds to finally hit the target when the camera cuts in for the last 3 shots because of the 12 feet of holdover at that distance. Using an 0x magnified red dot. Please.

Also none of the comparisons ever use a optimized match grade heavy 5.56, because if they did there would be little reason to make the switch. No article is going to get around the math, and the 77gr MK262 being used in the sandbox for years now has a well earned reputation for being a heavy hitting barrier blind round that outperforms or matches the 300 in every area except suppressed. And even that advantage is marginal.

[Grizz]

I mostly agree with Frank about the 556 technicals.

But I still like my shorty .300 for what it is more than I dislike it for what it isn't...

And, there's nothing wrong with walking in the rounds either. It's how the Canadian ? sniper made the mile shots.

And I imagine every lever gunner shooting the 1000 yd buff has a 27 foot hold-over, so that's legit also.

Rather than comparing directly to 556, it might be better to compare to other 30's. I think of it as the tail end of a 308 round's trajectory and energy. There is some overlap there.

Or, back to my handgun hunting days, the 44 mag from the hand gun is like the last 50 yards of a 150 yard shot from a rifle of the same caliber. I am less interested in what either AR round does compared to each other than I am interested in what the .300 actually does making meat. It could be a pretty good meat gun.

P.S. I ran across this 300 BLK ammo video, the guy made my point, showing the resulting range at which a .308 would exhibit the performance of the 300. What he didn't show was the range at which the 300 no longer frags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEIks1Y8KyM

so interesting

[sore shoulder]

A sniper shooting from a mile away has a lot more time on his hands, and I don't think it took 27 misses for that Canadian to make his shot. Walking in shots at 800 meters with 27 misses is not practical at all in any scenario besides shooting steel. Certainly not in the application being espoused.

I'm not saying the 300 isn't useful and you shouldn't get one, I'm saying most of the claims proponents make in favor of the cartridge and the comparisons they make are horse pucky and for me from a logistical and tactical sense it has no advantage over a 5.56.

[Bulldog]

There is no point in comparing the 300 BLK to the 5.56. It was never intended to be a competing round, but to offer options the 5.56 simply couldn't. It creates an optimal platform for suppressed fire with subsonic ammo, provides the ability to penetrate barriers with heavy projectiles, and can duplicate 7.62x39 ballistics with supersonic ammo. In my opinion, it accomplishes these things very well.

[Grizz]

from a logistical and tactical sense it has no advantage over a 5.56.

totally 100% agree with this. the logistics are all in favor of 556.

[sore shoulder]

There is no point in comparing the 300 BLK to the 5.56. It was never intended to be a competing round, but to offer options the 5.56 simply couldn't. It creates an optimal platform for suppressed fire with subsonic ammo, provides the ability to penetrate barriers with heavy projectiles, and can duplicate 7.62x39 ballistics with supersonic ammo. In my opinion, it accomplishes these things very well.

I would suggest the 5.56 can do most of those.

[Bulldog]

There is no comparison when shooting subsonic ammo suppressed. I'm not saying the 300 is better or worse than the 5.56. They serve different purposes, and can't be compared apples to apples.

[AJMD429]

There is no comparison when shooting subsonic ammo suppressed. I'm not saying the 300 is better or worse than the 5.56. They serve different purposes, and can't be compared apples to apples.

In my vast combat (fighting possums in the chicken pen) and tactical (camo looks cool with my long hair and beard) experience, my impression is:

The 223 is what I would grab for about any bad-stuff that didn't involve cape buffalo or really long range barricaded two-legs, in which case I'd grab a 375 Ruger bolt action, 500 S&W levergun, or 308 semiauto.

The 223 is easy to hit with out to 600 meters or so, relative to most other rounds, even though the 'terminal ballistics' are definitely more suited to two-legs than to cape buffalo.

The 300 Blackout is way nicer to shoot suppressed, way nicer to shoot from a SBR or 'pistol', and is more like a mild 30-30 in power.

The 300 Blackout trajectory varies all over the place depending on bullet selection, but once learned and with a consistent load I'm sure an experienced shooter can hit things 'way out there'. Doing that "in a stressful situation" might be yet another thing, unless one has very sophisticated optics and range-finding stuff.

The 300 Blackout is nice in that the gun has almost all 'standard' parts except the barrel, so can be converted or scavenged more easily than many other 'niche' firearms, but it is still non-standard enough that it complicates inventory and supply, and could result in serious 'embarrassment' if say the wrong magazine were grabbed. So going "all in" for only 223 or only 300 might make sense for an individual or family, but then again going without 223 might not be sensible. Maybe a family or group could equip with 300 Blackout and 308 only, but most of us really have 223 as one of our 'core' cartridges, for better or worse.

[Bulldog]

[. So going "all in" for only 223 or only 300 might make sense for an individual or family, but then again going without 223 might not be sensible. Maybe a family or group could equip with 300 Blackout and 308 only, but most of us really have 223 as one of our 'core' cartridges, for better or worse.

I wouldn't ever be without at least one 223/5.56, currently have 3. That doesn't mean there isn't room for something different in the 300 Blackout too. I don't discriminate, I like them all.

[Griff]

I still grab the Trapper mdl 94 in .30-30 when things go "bump" in the nite... or in the daylight...!!! If I needed a 600 yard shot, it'd be into the neighbor behind my neighbor... or thru the woods, neither of which is practical with either a .5.56 or .300BLK... or for that matter; my .30-30!

Side's... it prettier!

[AJMD429]

[. So going "all in" for only 223 or only 300 might make sense for an individual or family, but then again going without 223 might not be sensible. Maybe a family or group could equip with 300 Blackout and 308 only, but most of us really have 223 as one of our 'core' cartridges, for better or worse.

I wouldn't ever be without at least one 223/5.56, currently have 3. That doesn't mean there isn't room for something different in the 300 Blackout too. I don't discriminate, I like them all.

For me, I have found the 'niche' for 300 Blk is my AR 'pistol', and my Encore 16" rifle. That keeps magazines and ammo separate from the 'regular' 223 ones.