"Save Lives": Anybody Know if These Stats Are Correct???

[Old No7]

Got this from a guy at the local gun club, but there's no small text at the bottom for a source, and I haven't been able to prove/check if these statistics are true or not.

VERY compelling and powerful if they're even close to being accurate.

Anybody know about this?

Civilians.jpg

Thanks!

Old No7

[jeepnik]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

[AJMD429]

There would likely be much quibbling about the definition of 'a shooting rampage' but you could maybe find the source of the poster and ask them for a citation...

What the anti-gunners will say is that unless lots of people were killed, it wasn't a 'shooting rampage', but of course if the point is to prevent shooting rampages, then ones where lots of people weren't killed, should obviously 'count'.

Here's some related references that might help, or might lead to more pertinent ones...

• https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

Other good pages on that site:

• https://www.gunowners.org/news02052013.htm, https://www.gunowners.org/news02042013c.htm

actually - looks like THIS may be the original source...by Davi Barker:

• http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/ma ... ns-vs.html

I like where he says:

• "I want to be perfectly clear. I am not much of a firearms enthusiast. I don’t own a firearm. I’ve only ever been shooting twice. For me it’s not an issue of gun rights. It’s about property rights. A person has a natural right to own a hunk of iron in any darn shape they want, and they shouldn’t be criminalized until they use that hunk of iron to harm someone. People can argue crime statistics ’till they’re blue in face. I frankly don’t care about people’s ideas for managing society.
  
  What I am is a math enthusiast, so without further delay, here’s how I arrived at these numbers."

and a 'critique' of the above -

• http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire ... -mass-sho/

These may be redundant or duplicate posts but are easier to read:

• http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 11412.html
  
  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-blo ... 9594/posts

If you reference any of the sites, I'd pick the one that appears the best formatted and the most 'objective' (although any anti-gunner worth the title simply accuses any source of facts that contradict their emotional claptrap to be 'biased').

More discussion on the topic -

• http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-blo ... 9594/posts

[JerryB]

Thanks Doc AJ, that is a lot of good info.

[Blaine]

Numbers can be manipulated. But, I don't think that it could be disputed (except by the anti-gun crowd) that if there is an armed person in close vicinity to the criminal/shooter it "could" come to an end a lot sooner, and with less death than if the entire police force rolls up to the scene, and a standoff occurs....

[mikld]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

Who be this "they" you speak of?

[Pisgah]

If you REALLY want to enrage them, point out that per FBI reports homicides are down in the US almost 50% since 1990 -- in spite of the fact that the number of guns has almost doubled in the same time. Then, point out that the measures Obama is putting in place would have stopped NONE of the incidents he noted in his speech. Of course, he didn't claim that the changes would have prevented any of those incidents -- just that they MIGHT, POTENTIALLY save some lives...

[jeepnik]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

Who be this "they" you speak of?

What, you didn't see Obama crying on TV the other day. Like he really cares.

[jeepnik]

Numbers can be manipulated. But, I don't think that it could be disputed (except by the anti-gun crowd) that if there is an armed person in close vicinity to the criminal/shooter it "could" come to an end a lot sooner, and with less death than if the entire police force rolls up to the scene, and a standoff occurs....

What was it that white haired fellow said, "There are three types of lies. Lies, darned lies and statistics." Used that in a statistics class eons ago. Surprisingly I still passed.

[hondo1892]

I heard a caller on local talk radio one day say it's not likely that if someone was carrying in mass shooting they would be able to stop it. Then the next day I heard about a terrorist over in Isreal drove his car into a crowd killing several. He had an axe in the car with him but before he could exit the car bystanders shot him to death. That is what people don't get. The idea for carry rights is there should be more than one person in the crowd with a firearm. The sheeple out there can't figure this out because most can't think for themselves period. I'm afraid that western civilization is doomed because of PHD thinking.

[AJMD429]

I heard a caller on local talk radio one day say it's not likely that if someone was carrying in mass shooting they would be able to stop it. Then the next day I heard about a terrorist over in Isreal drove his car into a crowd killing several. He had an axe in the car with him but before he could exit the car bystanders shot him to death. That is what people don't get. The idea for carry rights is there should be more than one person in the crowd with a firearm. The sheeple out there can't figure this out because most can't think for themselves period. I'm afraid that western civilization is doomed because of PHD thinking.

One of MANY idiotic logical contradictions the liberal progressives believe...

a) guns are SO dangerous that even a fool who gets hold of one can go crazy and kill dozens of innocents,

but

b) guns are so ineffective that CCW'ers who have shot a hundred thousand rounds wouldn't be able to slow down a criminal.

Kind of like...

a) airline pilots are smart enough to operate complex aircraft, and trustable with the lives of all their passengers,

but

b) airline pilots are too stupid to operate a revolver and hit a bad guy five feet away, and can't be trusted with guns.

There are LOTS of these contradictions, but the news media (as usual) is oblivious...

[mikld]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

Who be this "they" you speak of?

What, you didn't see Obama crying on TV the other day. Like he really cares.

Hmmm. Me thinks you have it backwards. Those stats support private citizens carrying guns...

[gundownunder]

Funny thing about statistics,
sometimes they prove exactly what folks don't want them to.

example;
Here in Australia in April 1996 we had the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania.
Little Johnny Howard was prime minister at the time, and he said," I'll fix this problem". He made a lot of guns illegal, like pump action shotguns and semi auto rifles, and handguns over .38 caliber. Lots of people lost lots of guns they loved including family heirlooms that were, in some cases, hundred year old antiques.
So lets look at the statistics available regarding what little johnny did.
FBI figures from the US actually show that handguns in calibers .38 and under actually kill more people than the bigger calibers. I'd be surprised if Australian data doesn't agree with US data.
Australian bureau of statistics, (a government department) actually has data showing that in the year after the "gun buyback" we actually had the highest number of violent deaths in Australia in over 100 years.Which is pretty impressive considering Port Arthur resulted in 35 deaths. The second year after the buyback had the 2nd highest violent death numbers in over 100 years and the 3rd year after the buyback had the 3rd highest number of violent deaths in over 100 years.

As to the OPs statistics, stands to reason.
The cops take so long to show up that a killer has the opportunity to become a mass murderer.
A well armed civilian puts the killer down before he can become a mass murderer.

[Rusty]

I read that 78.3% of all statistics are made up.

[jeepnik]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

Who be this "they" you speak of?

What, you didn't see Obama crying on TV the other day. Like he really cares.

Hmmm. Me thinks you have it backwards. Those stats support private citizens carrying guns...

Exactly. And if we tell bit of truth Obama and friends that it will confuse them. I must not have made myself clear in my first post. I hope this clears it up.

[Blaine]

DO NOT under any circumstances confuse them with the facts. They tend to whine and cry crocodile tears.

Exactly......(But, I'm sure they understand the facts, they just don't fit the Socialist Game Plan)