Obesity in our components industry

[earlmck]

I only have a couple of really good places to store primers and powder, and those are not all that large. So a creeping obesity disease spreading through our powder and primer manufacturers has really cramped my style. For example, I really like Alliant's Reloader powders, but their little game of putting 5# of RL powder in a jug that would hold 10# with room to spare has slightly irritated me from the beginning. But it is a tall jug that fits nicely in my space, and for the two I use most I buy 2 jugs at once and combine them into one. Enter their new "Pro" series, so I ordered an 8# jug of "Varmint".

Good grief! they send it in a huge jug; one that occupies a lot of square footage and would easily hold 25# of powder. It'll be cold day in a hot place before I try others of the series even though it looks quite promising.

And Federal primers? For years a favored brand: now look at the ridiculous package they create. Again, it will be a cold day before I get more Federal primers. Especially as my good primer storage space is much more limited than my powder storage space.

Took a few pictures (with old vs new packaging where I had it) to show illustrate what I am talking about -- Primers:

Fatness of CCI.jpg

Fatness of Remington.jpg

Fatness of Federal.jpg

Powders:

Fatness of Hercules.jpg

Fatness of Winchester.jpg

Fatness of Hodgdon.jpg

So: I now have a strong bias against Federal primers and Alliant powders, based on their stooopid packaging. And then yesterday while the wife was doing a little clothes shopping I was killing time in Sportsman's Warehouse, which is a decent place to buy powder in the bigger jugs that are my preference. And as in a horrible nightmare I spy Hodgdon and IMR powder the 8# container. The same grossly obese jug that Alliant has been using!

What I will do from now on is keep my old powder containers and just transfer the replacement from the horrible new container into the reasonably svelte old container. And may not try any of the new powders -- not that I badly needed anything new. I don't shoot anything but old guns: might as well use the old stand-by powders.

But dang -- I had been looking forward to trying "Power Pistol" once the new right shoulder heals up enough to get back to shooting pistols. And if Accurate and Ramline (and Norma and Vihtavouri) can resist the disease they may get more business.

OK -- Rant Off. But that was a shock to my system yesterday. For years Hodgdon had such neat containers -- those gallon jugs that held 8# perfectly and poured so nicely. And I threw them away when empty

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Rejoice you can find powder. Been here near 30 years and in that time have bout 1 (one) one pound container of #60 (made about late 1960's) down here. Needless to say I have no storage problems.
Mike in Peru

[Alan in Vermont]

I could not agree more on the ridiculous size of the Federal Primer packaging. One has to be quite careful, when transferring Fed. primers into a primer flipper as the box is very near larger than the flipper tray. I'm not pressed for storage space but don't have a lot of extra room for the obese boxes. I won't buy Fed. now if I have a choice.

[Griff]

I'm thinking it's proof that one company is making EVERYTHING and just using artwork to differentiate between brands! (Not really, but it could be!)

[yooper2]

While it may be a pretty minor thing in the grander scheme, this is something that annoys the bejeezus out of me. I cannot begin to fathom what is gained by this outsized packaging which is a pain to store and must cost more to ship/hold in stock.




Eric

[bmtshooter]

There must be a reason, because it extends over the whole range of most things you purchase. Have you ever looked at how much of the bottle that over-the-counter medications actually fill up ? Then there is often a huge piece of cotton on top to keep the pills from rattling themselves to powder.

Their packaging quality control must be good, because I have never heard of a double charge in one of those grossly oversized cases

I also notice that even though the packaging is enormous as compared to its contents, the fine print on the label is still way too small to be read without a microscope

[rbertalotto]

It's all about "Shelf Space" and every vendor wants as much as he can get

[M. M. Wright]

I was under the impression that the Federal primer box got big because of federal regulations. You know, guvmint. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Anyone know for sure?
Anyway that Federal primer box is impossible for me to get all the contents into one of my flipper trays. But they are the softest I can find and work so well with my tuned pistols. CCI in either my 1911s or SAAs don't always always fire. Come to think of it, my Smith 1917 just barely sets off the Federals but someone shortened the tension screw on it's mainspring and I have neglected putting a dab of weld on the end of it. I'm going to join procrastinators anonymous when I get around to it.

[earlmck]

I was under the impression that the Federal primer box got big because of federal regulations. You know, guvmint. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Anyone know for sure?
Anyway that Federal primer box is impossible for me to get all the contents into one of my flipper trays. But they are the softest I can find and work so well with my tuned pistols. CCI in either my 1911s or SAAs don't always always fire. Come to think of it, my Smith 1917 just barely sets off the Federals but someone shortened the tension screw on it's mainspring and I have neglected putting a dab of weld on the end of it. I'm going to join procrastinators anonymous when I get around to it.

Yes, there are some things we really want to use those soft Federal primers for, M. M. And conversely, the Remington primers are extra hard -- in fact I have a couple of different loads where I use those awful pointy bullets in tubular magazines and I use Remington primers 'cause you have to have a genuine firing pin hit to set them off.

And since nobody has followed Federal's lead in the humongous box size (I think Remington is using the same old primer box as 30 years ago) it can't be a regulation thing. Oh yeah, the newer RCBS flipper tray is built to handle the stoopid Federal primer box. A few years ago I got this "deal too good to pass up" on Federal primers, which is the first hint I had of their new packaging. So I invested in a new primer flipper because I am stuck with Federal primers for a long danged time. So I get re-irritated every time I get into my stash for a new carton. Can you imagine how much space 20k Federal primers consume? I had to do some serious re-organizing of my premium space. Fortunately they are the small pistol magnums, so they are good for every load I use small primers in -- rifle, pistol, ball powder-- whatever... Anyway, I'm trying to use them up to reclaim my primer storage space.

It's all about "Shelf Space" and every vendor wants as much as he can get

Maybe so, but it is working against them: at the Sportsman's Warehouse the Hodgdon group has the same old shelf space as ever but there were only 3 of the big jugs displayed rather than the 10 or so they usually have...

[mikld]

It's about money, and not about screwing the consumer. Many companies (not just powder manufacturers) will use a "one size fits all" container for their product. Using one container that will hold most products made by a company is good thinking; less inventory, lower cost to purchase one container vs. 3 or 4, less "filling" costs (one machine or method to put products in containers). If company Q is using a container made by "Cans Inc." company R can buy that same container cheaper than having Cans Inc. retool for another size/shape container. Have you ever gotten anything shipped from Amazon that has eight yards of stuffing/packing and a product that only takes up 1/8 of the box? Amazon saves a lot of money buying one size box and using it to ship many different products.

This even pertains to the automotive/equipment industry. I have replaced many wiring looms in different vehicles and construction equipment, and noticed several "leads" the went "nowhere". I realized that the same loom was used on a few different vehicles, but had slightly different accessories, or components. Buying a "one fits all" loom saved a bunch of money for the manufacturers rather than 4or 5 looms manufactured for different models of the "same" vehicle.

[Ji in Hawaii]

I'm going to boycott all power manufacturers who use oversized jugs...

...until I get low on powder

[Ray Newman]

I wonder if part is due to shop lifting? Harder to conceal a large/larger box.

One time a woodworking tool supplier told me that they had a problem with router bits and other items "walking out the door". But when the manufacturers went to a much larger/bulkier packaging, that just about stopped....

[765x53]

Standard size containers to hold the bulkiest powder in the line-up.
If they made a custom size container for each powder, would you pay the price?

Federal primer boxes can stay closed without the aid of Scotch tape.

[earlmck]

Standard size containers to hold the bulkiest powder in the line-up.

I think they took care of that a few years ago when they came out with the containers I have labeled as "pleasingly plump". But these huge tubs that are only 1/3 full? That's just some kinda' BS.
As in these (I forgot to put this pic in my original rant)

Fatness of Alliant.jpg

Federal primer boxes can stay closed without the aid of Scotch tape.

That's true. Of course Remington took care of that years ago without increasing the size of their box. And I can store 12K Remington primers (or 10K CCI's) in the space occupied by 3K Federals.

[Merle]

I'd be careful about mixing different jugs in one container - unless they are the same lot number.

[Malamute]

The Federal primer boxes were required to be larger after a carrier dropped a case of them and they exploded. Fed are softer/more sensitive. They are the only ones that happened to, so were the only ones required to repackage. They may have tested the various makes and their packaging after the incident happened.

I dont know for sure who required Federal to make larger, more impact resistant packages, the feds or the carriers. It happened a heck of a long time ago, maybe 15-20 years ago or so.