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Greetings all. I picked up an 1892 in .44 wcf from my wife's fathers estate. It is in great shape (refinished) but I am a bit confused by the markings.
The serial number is 238xx but it is on the bottom of the receiver. It has probably been refinished as everything looks new from the factory. Is this really from 1893? Is it a new production?
It was part of my wife's dads collection so the sentimental value outweighs any monetary value. I just wanted to know if this is the real (refinished) deal.
That's where the serial no. should be and I can't tell from your pics if it's refinished or not. Either way, a very nice '92. How's the bore? Will you shoot it? We want more pics and a range report.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Thanks! I will probably put a few rounds down range. I have a couple of Brazilian 1892's in 44-40 that I love. The action on the Winchester is slick as butter.
The bore is decent - rifling is there but not super deep. I need to get a better bore scope to look closer. The magazine tube has a bit of play side to side and is missing the screw that goes through the end cap (i ordered a replacement).
I apparently stink at taking pictures - but here are a few more.
I also picked up a Japanese Browning one of the limited edition 100th anniversary pieces.
As stated that is the right position for the serial number.
As for the pictures, use natural sun light but not in the direct sun or stay further back so the flash can cover the rifle properly, zoom in with the lens if possible. Or crop to fit in the computer if you can not use a zoom.
Pierre
The modern "Winchester" Model 1892/92's are made in Japan by the Miroku Gun Co (and so marked on the barrel address), and have a tang safety.
Why do you think it's refinished ? - Is it because it looks new, or do you or your wife have family knowledge that it was refinished ?
Since your wife's dad was a gun collector, it just might be the best original condition Winchester Model 1892 I've ever seen.
If it's in the 100% original condition that it looks to be, a .44-40/.44WCF in that condition would be worth $2500-$3K, at a minimum.
If it's in 100% refinished condition, it would be worth at least 50% less - unless the refinish can be documented as coming from the old New Haven Winchester Custom Shop / Customer Service Dept, which did top-notch work.
I really have no history behind the gun. My wife dad was a collector and a cowboy action shooter. He died shortly before we were married (almost ten years ago). The executer had the collection appraised and the appraiser said it was refinished. It is .44wcf.
It is absolutely beautiful and has a better finish than any of my newer lever guns. I will get some better pictures.
I paid $1200 for it site unseen just so my wife would have something that meant something to her dad.
Would Winchester have a record if had been refinished by them?
Greetings
Yep that is where the serial should be. Have a 27,xxx 44 WCF SRC. But mine has been well used.
Look inside the receiver and bore. Any pitting, wear marks. Is the receiver tight on the bolt ? Is the wood flush with the steel or a bit wide ? You mentioned the mag tube is loose.. A seldom used rifle the mag tube is tight. Have a 1896 made rifle and the mag tube is snug on the mounting.
Do not be surprised if you desire to use smokeless powder that you need fat bullets. All my old Win 92's in 44 WCF shoot a .432 far better than any less diameter.
Equally shooting 3F in the same 92's a .430 bullet cast of near pure lead (40-1) shoots best. I highly recommend firing at least 5 rounds loaded with 3F and a .430 soft lead bullet to find the real accuracy potential of that rifle. You will be pleasantly surprised how well it will shoot from a clean barrel. Clover leafs at 25 yards. Holes touching at 50 yards. Under 2 inches at 100 yards. Then try to beat those groups with smokeless ... So far all my 44 WCF's shoot 3F the best.
Mike in Peru
Last edited by missionary5155 on Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
First look on the top of the barrel at the receiver. If you see an oval with a P in it it's a replacement barrel from Winchester mailed to a gunsmith. Fairly common because when it was made most rounds were black powder. Replacement barrels have a date and proof marks on the bottom under the forearm. If the top mark is an oval with a WP it may be the original barrel and the value goes way up.
Shallow rifling may be because it spent most of it's life shooting lead, mine had that. A couple treatments with Blue Wonder, outdoors that stuff drips black goop, and the rifling depth may surprise you.
Bill Ranks
I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Robert A. Heinlein
Here is under the hand guard. There is nothing on the top of the barrel near the reciever other than caliber. The food is tight and fits well.
After looking at this closer it may be a refinish or a really well preserved original. There are flaws in the finish and I would compare them to some of my pawn store purchased 1894's. Nothing bad but wear here and there.
As I said before I am more interested in knowing what I have than placing any real value on it. It will be passed to my son as a tribute to his grand dad that he never met.
Your rifle has been professionally refinished. The color of the blue is different than original blue. Your lever and hammer have been blued where originals were color case hardened. Loading gates were niter blued.
The wood has also been refinished, but once again, nicely done. The texture and overall look of the top coat is new.
How's the bore condition? In having my hands on several thousand antique Winchesters the bore condition on like new guns almost always has a shinny bore where refinished guns show pitting.
It's still a desirable rifle as second year production guns along with any Winchester made in 1898 or before will bring as premium as these are classified as antiques and can be bought and traded with no paperwork.
Now take that baby out and shoot it 'till the cows come home. -----6
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD
[quote="jfg_4"]Thanks! I will probably put a few rounds down range. I have a couple of Brazilian 1892's in 44-40 that I love. The action on the Winchester is slick as butter.
The bore is decent - rifling is there but not super deep. I need to get a better bore scope to look closer. The magazine tube has a bit of play side to side and is missing the screw that goes through the end cap (i ordered a replacement).
That magazine tube thing was most likely caused by the person that refinished the gun!!! The band around the magazine on 92's and 94's and later versions of them does NOT drive out to the side like the sights and invariably some newbie gunsmith does that. The pin is removed and the tube is slid out and then ROTATED and (I can't remember which way) and it will turn right out. Look at your gun and if someone didn't file off the excess metal, you can tap that very carefully back in place with a small hammer and a nice flat ended punch, checking often by inserting it rotating it, and it will be as good as new. Hope this helps.
By the way, I have a '92 in 32-20 with serial #220XX made just about the same time as yours.
P.S. After reading what I said, to clarify the part about the rotation, I meant to turn the tube and band 90 degrees to the barrel, and it will come out.
You ought to get hold of a feller name of "twobit". He is doing a survey of Winchester 92's and was very helpful letting me know what I had with my own 92. Here is a link to his work:
What you have is a round barrel, solid frame version of the sporting rifle configuration. The octagon barrel variation is by far much more popular and these were also available with a half round/half octagon barrel. The 44 WCF is the largest of the four calibers offered in the Model 1892. Though at the time your rifle was manufactured the smallest caliber 25-20 WCF was not yet developed. The rear sight elevator is not original to the gun.
As stated, your rifle has absolutely been refinished. The bluing color and the fact that the lever, hammer, and butt plate are blued instead of case colored are tell tale signs. The barrel has the correct barrel address stamp on it and is most likely original to the gun. Based on the serial number the rifle was actually manufactured during early 1894 not 1893. If you will send me the full serial number of the rifle I would like to add it into a research survey which I am working on. My email is included in this link: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355
Let me know if you have any further detail questions and I will be glad to answer them.
Michael
Michael Puzio Winchester Model 1892 Collector, Research & Valuations
Sixgun wrote:This copper plated. (Not factory....a very old job). 1892 is close to yours. 25493
Hello Sixgun,
CAn you please post images of the barrel address, caliber stamp, and upper tang of your rifle so I can enter the information into my survey? The receiver of your rifle was serialized on the 24th of February 1894.
Thanks
Michael
Michael Puzio Winchester Model 1892 Collector, Research & Valuations
jfg_4 wrote:I just wanted to give another round of thanks to everyone in this thread! Thank you!
Glad to help for sure. And thank you so much for the full SN of the rifle so that I could enter it int my survey. I have cataloged just over 8000 rifles to date. Be careful though. Collecting these rifles can be habit forming. I have more than 40 Model 1892's.
Thanks again
Michael
Michael Puzio Winchester Model 1892 Collector, Research & Valuations
