Aging Eyes...and aiming/shooting Leverguns

[TraderVic]

Greetings folks, I just reregistered here as I enjoy the discussions on this forum. I was registered here some time ago ( 12-15 years ago ), but my email address changed without me giving any thought to editing my profile before I forgot my password. Anyway - I lurk and read much more than I post.

Question ; What do you folks do for sights on your lever guns as your eyes age and open sights/aperture sights don't work so well anymore ? I'm hesitant to mount a scope on my Marlin 30-30 Cowboy because it just wouldn't look right. I also have a semi custom Marlin 1895 ( 45/70 ) that I would prefer a scope on, but my son prefers the peep sights I installed.....fine for him, but...

Regards, Vic

[3leggedturtle]

Welcome aboard,, I am getting to that point. Would put an Aimpoint or Burris reddot on it. Have the 9000L mounted on my Henry 22mag lever. I can still see better than I can handle the winter.

[Paladin]

Have had that problem for a while. I have put XS Scout mounts on most of my lever guns and mounted scopes and red dots on them. The scopes I use are normally mounted far enough forward to still allow the easy mounting of the rifle and have illuminated cross hairs for use in dim areas.

[ollogger]

Hi & Welcome!!
most every Lever I have wears a receiver or a few tang sights, I have a 38-55 Marlin CB
it & a 88 Winchester has a scope & I can live with that, it sure made the 38-55 a tack driver
with these 60 year old eyes!!!
forgot the 99 in 243 has a scope also

ollogger

[jmiller]

I own a Win 1886 I own that I put a Turnbull mount on and a Burris FastFire3 with a 3moa dot. I've shot five shot groups with this set up at my own range of 114 yards that were around 1.5" and it did it on a regular basis. However, I ended up getting cataract surgery and now I can see 20/15 again without glasses. You can find a pic of it on Turnbull's website.

[M. M. Wright]

Glad you've gotten back in.

I have several BLRs with scopes, doesn't seem out of place on them but my 86 Browning SRC has a receiver sight and a big gold bead. The Winchester 86, 26" 45-90, has the semi-buckhorn and a Marbles tang sight. I regulate the barrel sight for 100 yards and the tang for 200 and just flip it up when I need it. My eyes are nowhere near where they used to be but I can still see the front when looking through a peep and I'm 76. Smaller apertures make the front sharper but I can't see through them late and early so I drill them out to about 1/8th inch. Sometimes I put the aperture in my pocket and just aim through the threads.

[BenT]

Most peep sights with a fiber optic front sight. I am looking at trying a Burris fast fire red dot , because it is small. The Marlins I mount a 2x7 scope , leave it on 2x and shoot with both eyes open. I use that set up for deer hunting and take it back off for shooting steel plates the rest of the year.

[jeepnik]

I'd go with the XS sights. https://www.xssights.com/Products.aspx?CAT=8243

And some sort of red dot. I prefer holographic sights over those that occlude the vision of the master eye.

[Bronco]

I had the eye doctor bump the upper prescription to bring in the front sight clear on my readers. Am far sided and usually don't wear glasses but anything about an arms length and closer start to get fuzzy. The glassed help shooting iron sites.

John

Got a scope I put on once in awhile but agree , to me they look better without it

[Griff]

About 45 years ago, I started having to wear "readers"... for really small print, 6pt or less. About 20 years ago, I had to up those to readers for regular 12pt type. About 5 years ago, I found I had to wear prescription glasses for even my far vision. Either bite the bullet and mount scopes, or see your optometrist for a prescription that allows you to see the front sight.

The good thing is, the Marlins are not affected, operationally, by a mounted scope.

[TraderVic]

Both of my lever guns have Williams fiber optic front posts. The posts sure are easier to see, however - fiber optics are too easy to knock around if one isn't careful.......and junior hasn't been very careful and I must replace it.

BTW - does anyone know where I can find a front sight hood that has the top/side cut out for fiber optic sights ?

In the latest edition of Barnes reloading manual, there is a pic of John Taffin holding a Marlin 38/55 Cowboy, sporting a scope on top. I don't know if that's on there all of the time or just working up loads.

[Ray Newman]

About 20 years ago, I ordered a pair of shooting glasses from Decot Sporting Glasses. I just could not use barrel, receiver, and tang sights anymore.

My yearly eye exam always seems to indicate a change in lenses. I just send the new Rx and the old glasses to Decot and they make up a new lenses and put them in the old frames and return the old lenses. Lenses are easily removed form the frames and I still use the original approximately 20 year old frames. Turn around time is about 10-12 work days. Lenses can be cut in various colours as well as clear. A bifocal can also be cut into the lens/lenses.

http://www.sportglasses.com/Default.asp

[AJMD429]

Here is a fairly long post illustrating the various 'aperture' sights I've tried, and some I've not. I find them very helpful with 'old eyes' as long as there is sufficient light ('ghost-ringing' them helps a bit) - > Link to 'Peep Sights' thread.

Some of my most-often-used lever guns are my three 'Night Scout' lever guns which I've posted about over the years - > Link to 'Night Scouts' thread.

In general, I sight my leverguns as follows:

a) Longer or more historical leverguns mostly used for target shooting - Tang Sights - I like the longer sight radius, and the authentic look.

b) Mid-size or more 'practical' leverguns mostly used for deer hunting - Williams FP Sights - I like the precision adjustments and compact durability. Exception - I keep my Ruger 96/44 scoped and with a laser sight because I want one deer-capable levergun I can use in dim twilight to see (the scope) and verify (the laser quickly identifies too-thick brush that could be in front of the target).

c) Compact or more 'handy' leverguns mostly used for 'woods walking' - Marbles 'Bullseye' Sights - I like the really, really FAST yet accurate nature of those sights.

d) Rimfires or leverguns for precision hunting or target shooting - Optical Scopes - I just can't hit what I can't see, and if the target is the size of a squirrel's head at 50 yards in the brush or tree, I'm gonna need a scope.

e) 'Night Scout' lever guns set up as 'go-to' firearms all the family knows how to use either for home-defense, or to take when going out to check livestock at night - Holosights with Lasers and a quick-detach light - they are able to fire non-ear-damaging projectiles without blinding flash, and hit targets out to 75 yards or so EASILY in pitch-black conditions if needed.

f) my 'Newbie' levergun is a 96/22 that is set up with a 'red-dot' scope and an integrally-suppressed barrel. The goal is to have something that has no appreciable recoil or noise, and is EASY to hit a 6" gong with at 50 yards 9 of 10 times, even for someone who hasn't ever fired a gun.

[mohavesam]

I have absolutely no issues with a short scope or optic on any levergun. it tells me the hunter places hunting ethics above nostalgia.

I have a Weaver 2.25 on my 307 BB 1894, and a Burris Scout scope on a favorite 356 Marlin. XS fwd rails make the job easy and solid as a rock. Years ago I could place a 200-gr Hornady slug into a milk jug at 150 paces first time, every time with my open- and peep-sighted 71s. When it became apparent that I was taking a chance with the first round from a cold barrel, I had a choice; relegate the levers to targets, or improve the sight picture with 21st century technology. I'm still hunting with leverguns.

[Shasta]

Most of my leverguns are used for metallic silhouette shooting where scopes are not permitted. For me, I get the best sight picture from a tang peep along with a globe or bead front sight, so .....









Shasta

[Old Savage]

Scope, you will shoot better.

[TraderVic]

a) Longer or more historical leverguns mostly used for target shooting - Tang Sights - I like the longer sight radius, and the authentic look.

b) Mid-size or more 'practical' leverguns mostly used for deer hunting - Williams FP Sights - I like the precision adjustments and compact durability. Exception - I keep my Ruger 96/44 scoped and with a laser sight because I want one deer-capable levergun I can use in dim twilight to see (the scope) and verify (the laser quickly identifies too-thick brush that could be in front of the target).

c) Compact or more 'handy' leverguns mostly used for 'woods walking' - Marbles 'Bullseye' Sights - I like the really, really FAST yet accurate nature of those sights.

d) Rimfires or leverguns for precision hunting or target shooting - Optical Scopes - I just can't hit what I can't see, and if the target is the size of a squirrel's head at 50 yards in the brush or tree, I'm gonna need a scope.

Perhaps this is what I should do....set the 30-30 cowboy aside for range work and plinking and get a different lever gun for strictly hunting applications....with optics on top.

[Malamute]

I've gradually come to be more concerned about how well I can shoot a gun than how they look. I can shoot better with glass, and in far more varied lighting conditions, than I ever could with irons of any kind.

[Streetstar]

My main hunting gun for almost everything (squirrels excluded - LOL ) is my 45/70 Guide Gun --- i just tailor the ammo to the game

--- One look would suggest i value the utility of a scope as that scope is admittedly ugly - but given the fact that i tailor my ammo to the situation - example, i use the factory FTX loads for whitetail and similar size game, -- but a trip after buffalo or bear would likely have me choosing a heavier pill from Garrett or Buffalo Bore or the like, -- which would have a different point of aim

-- Its a lot easier for me to dial in a scope than have to mess with iron sights to change Point of Impact (but the peep sights are pretty tune-able )

-- Plus , it lets me shoot with some measure of precision out to 200 yards

This was a free scope and i have put it to good use for years -- but if i were to buy one, i would admittedly look for something more compact -- Leupold's old VX-3 2x7 was a trim little piece of glass that almost seems perfect for a levergun


Another sight that would be really neat on a CB would be a Malcolm scope , but i dont know how durable/reliable they are for hard field work -

[Old Savage]

The Leupold 1.5-5x is a very good choice.

[Noah Zark]

First thing I do with a new rifle is paint the brass / gold bead with off-white / almond appliance touch-up paint. It simulates an ivory bead at a fraction of the cost, and an ivory or off-white bead is MUCH easier for older eyes to deal with, short of mounting a scope.

Noah

[Canuck Bob]

Over 60 and my eyes are changing steadily. My 444 has had a Williams FP since the 70s when bought new. All my rifles until recently carried receiver sights and that is what I have endlessly recommended on gun forums. Now I have my first scoped rifle in many decades, a 223 CZ 527 lefty. It has a compact 4X M8 Leupold. What a joy to experience the sight picture. I don't hunt so missing is not an issue. I can still hit a sheet of paper to 300 meters but no bragging groups with irons anymore. If I did hunt I would stay under 100 paces with irons out of respect for my quarry.

In the last consideration I would not hunt with anything but a lever so these days I would equip it as I pleased, an Ultralight 2.5X Leupold for big game. I'm considering scoping my 9422 to enjoy its precision. Long gone are my rigid views of how a lever should be equipped.

[Old Savage]

Makes sense

[Dave]

My eyes aren't as good as they were. I used iron for many years but can even have a little trouble with aperture sights now. A few years ago I shot a deer with a conventionally scoped rifle and for the first time noticed the cross hairs were blurry. Talking to a guy one day he said you have to slide your glasses down your nose to make them clear again. He was right. However, the crosshairs of my scout scoped gun are still clear since that scope is farther down the barrel. An heretofore unknown benefit of the scout set up.

[TraderVic]

A few years back I was deer hunting with my Marlin 30-30 cowboy ( aperture sights ) in big timber in Northern WI on a cloudy afternoon. Darned if a group of fidgety does comes along and a buck is amongst them. I only had a buck tag so I needed to ID the buck to shoot....and the woods was all shadows and I never got a shot. The buck was not obvious so I had to be sure about him. It was all over in about 30 seconds....and off they all went.

Of course I can't be 100% sure, but had I been carrying my scoped 270 pump - I'm 98% sure I would have filled my tag.

Oh yeah.....this all took place at about 60-70 yds or so. I've contemplated mounting a Leupold VX 2-7 or so on it, but haven't so far.

I've enjoyed all of your experience, comments and input !

Regards, Vic

[JerryB]

Right now at 77 my eyes are still doing OK with the Marbles tang sight and the Williams 5D's that I have on most of my levers. The ones with the old factory sights are still clear enough for most close shots. Reckon it will all change someday. My glasses work fine for handgun and rifle shooting.

[Bill in Oregon]

Shasta, DUDE! You have some amazing rifles!

[gcs]

Your never going to beat the view you get through a scope with any iron sight, but I'm still managing with a FP peep with the aperture removed. Makes a sorta ghost ring sight. Couple that with a Williams fire sight bead and your doing as best as you can without a scope.

I've been threatening to install a scope on my 336 for several years now, but a scopeless lever gun is so darn handy to carry...

[TraderVic]

Your never going to beat the view you get through a scope with any iron sight, but I'm still managing with a FP peep with the aperture removed. Makes a sorta ghost ring sight. Couple that with a Williams fire sight bead and your doing as best as you can without a scope.

I've been threatening to install a scope on my 336 for several years now, but a scopeless lever gun is so darn handy to carry...

X2

We use fire sight front posts and FP rears with the aperture removed as well.

[Old Ironsights]

Even after LASIK I'm STILL not as good/comfortable with Scopes as I am Irons, but they do come in handy when the range is over 200yds or the targets are smaller than 18"...

So my '99 has a scope... and I have a reciever peep as a backup.

But my .357 is peep only.

[donw]

I keep my lever marlin 39 dressed with the Williams rear peep simply for dealing with close shots at venomous reptiles that occasionally find their way onto my property.

I 'scope' my BA and SS rifles for accuracy at all ranges.

[Pete44ru]

.

I like a reflex sight on a levergun - small, looks like a large peep sight, adjusts/shoots like a scope.

Some makers: Burris (FastFire), Bushnell, Dr.Optic, Hunting Optics, Leupold, NcStar, Sightmark, Tasco, Trijicon, Vortex & more - use your google-fu.

I just found/bought two Bushnell First Strike sights, on sale in a local Walmart for $50 each (50% of their MSRP's), because they had lost the boxes.(doh)

Most reflex sights are set up to attach to a Weaver-type scope mount base, so I pick out a 2-base set ($10) that has a bottom concavity that matches the contour of the rear half of the top of the bolt, then D/T the bolt top for one of the (small) bases, to mount the reflex sight atop the rear of the bolt.

A Weaver 2-piece scope base set has a bottom contour that matches the top of the rear half of a Winchester 94 bolt top pretty closely.

Here's a few more conventional mounts:







(The sidemount base above is made/sold by Doug Turnbull.)


.

[Bill in Oregon]

Pete, that's a great system right there.

[Canuck Bob]

That really is a nice rig-up. It doesn't wreck the hand carry of a lever. That is the reason I stayed with receiver sights. Nothing hand carries as nice as a traditional lever.