A big two thumbs down to Brownells

[jhrosier]

I added a spring kit to my order because it would ship free with the item that I really needed.
The item that I really needed was placed on indefinite back order and I get to pay $8 shipping for a $11 spring.
The order can't be cancelled because I suck and they hate me.

NOW I remember why I haven't ordered anything from Brownells in a long time.

I ordered the stuff from Joe Bob outfitters. I will remember how Brownells helped me the next few years.

BTW, I bought a bunch of stuff from Joe Bob for a recent AR build and found their prices very reasonable, guess I should have remembered that a bit sooner

Jack

[harry]

So what did Brownells do wrong, did you want them to ship your $11 spring for free?

[jhrosier]

So what did Brownells do wrong, did you want them to ship your $11 spring for free?

I wanted them to allow me to cancel the order entirely but that was not allowed because the "order has already been sent to the warehouse for picking."

So... somebody couldn't pick up the phone and stop the order?

It's not about the $8, it's about the lack of concern for customer service.

Jack

[vancelw]

So what did Brownells do wrong, did you want them to ship your $11 spring for free?

I wanted them to allow me to cancel the order entirely but that was not allowed because the "order has already been sent to the warehouse for picking."

So... somebody couldn't pick up the phone and stop the order?

It's not about the $8, it's about the lack of concern for customer service.

Jack

Refuse the shipment, request a refund. If Brownell's won't process the refund, the CC company will.

I buy more and more stuff via Amazon. Not always the cheapest, but I get it to my door in two days. I've been waiting 2 weeks for a shipment from Midway....they have got to be the slowest shipper in the industry.
I can't remember if it's MidSouth or Natchezz that won't tell you an item is on back-order until you complete the purchase. Then you get ht with 2 shipping charges. It never fails to be the one item you really needed.

[92&94]

I don't understand - the part you really needed was out of stock, so why place the order?

Most companies ship partial orders rather than holding the order until they can ship it complete. Although what happened to you is indeed annoying, it's about what I would expect to happen.

Yes, they should make it easy to head off orders, either by stopping them before they are picked, or before they are shipped. But most companies do not make it easy to do that. Try it with Amazon, they won't be any better than Brownells.

[vancelw]

Yes, they should make it easy to head off orders, either by stopping them before they are picked, or before they are shipped. But most companies do not make it easy to do that. Try it with Amazon, they won't be any better than Brownells.

I disagree. I've been using Amazon since 1999. They have yet to let me complete an order with out-of-stock items on it. I can only think of 2 times in the hundreds of orders from them that there was an issue (other than issues caused by UPS or USPS). Both times, Amazon corrected it immediately with no waiting period and no hassle.

[92&94]

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I simply don't order stuff that is out of stock so it has never come up.

I had understood, however, the the OP initiated the order and then wanted to modify it afterwards - try that with Amazon, say you want to add something to the order - and I believe you will see similar results, being told "no". These systems are not designed to be like the line at the hardware store.

[bdhold]

I have never had a company charge me for shipping two orders when they back-ordered an item they listed as stock - they always eat the shipping, and so they had better if they want my business in the future.

[vancelw]

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I simply don't order stuff that is out of stock so it has never come up.

I had understood, however, the the OP initiated the order and then wanted to modify it afterwards - try that with Amazon, say you want to add something to the order - and I believe you will see similar results, being told "no". These systems are not designed to be like the line at the hardware store.

The OP didn't intend to order something that was out of stock, and thus on backorder...that's his complaint.
Some of these online sellers don't tell you an item is out of stock until after you complete your order. Some will let you cancel...some won't. I simply avoid those sellers. And yes, some of them want to charge you for the back-order shipment that you never intended to place.

Yes. Amazon will let you add and delete items to and from your order before it ships. I have even had them combine multiple orders into a single shipment, so that I got one box that day instead of 3. They will even ship you a replacement order before they receive the one you are returning. That level of customer service is why they are growing at an astounding rate.

[jhrosier]

I don't understand - the part you really needed was out of stock, so why place the order?...

It was an internet order. The item was shown as "in stock" and the order was confirmed the next day by email. I had been watching the item for several weeks, waiting for it to be shown as "in stock."
On the third day (this morning), I got another email informing me that the item was out of stock.

I called this morning to cancel the order entirely and was told that the order could not be cancelled.
If I had been told that the order was shipped, I would have accepted that as bad luck. However, I was told that the order had been "sent to the warehouse." That would seem to suggest that a quick call to the warehouse might have been in time to stop the order.

I don't expect anything for free but I do insist that folks at least pretend to care.
In my three score and seven years, I can still count the firms that I will no longer patronize, including Brownells, on the fingers of one hand.

On the other hand, no pun intended, are companies that go to great lengths to service even the smallest accounts.

Burris has twice sent small parts and lens caps at no charge when I called trying to buy these items. The last time they even sent a very nice key chain with a Burris logo. They make very good red dot sights for very reasonable prices. I have four Burris red dot sights and three rifle scopes and will look at Burris first.

When my 30 year old Dillon Square Deal press ate a primer anvil and seized up solid, they sent about a hundred dollars worth of parts so that I could restore the press to new condition. This was after I told them that the press no longer met my needs and I was going to sell it! I still recommend Dillon presses for those folks who need a progressive press, even though I am no longer in that group.

I started buying from Midsouth Shooters Supply after Midway inexplicably divided a small order into three parts and shipped it all the same day, charging me triple shipping charges.
Midsouth has been supplying my reloading needs with nary an issue for more than ten years. Midway could have had my business if they simply admitted their error and pretended like they cared.

I am not foolish enough to think that my business will make or break any business. I get requests from new shooters all of the time and I never fail to recommend good places to buy or warn of others that might be best avoided.

Jack

[CowboyTutt]

I haven't dealt with Midway myself in many years because of their shipping practices. I prefer Graff and Son's when I can. I haven't had any problems with Brownell's but I use the online "instant message" assistants and have them check to see if the product is in stock. No problems so far, I have found the assistants to be VERY helpful in finding parts and placing an order. I would actually have to even RECOMMEND Brownells given my recent experiences when placing an order in this fashion. I am sorry you had such bad luck however.

Regards,

-Tutt

[Pisgah]

Brownell's did the same thing to me on my last -- and I do mean my last -- two orders. Several items on each order, all "in stock" -- until each order arrived with one item "on backorder", shipping charged, of course -- and then, more shipping when the backordered items came in. No big deal if shipping were a buck or two, but when it's 8 or 10 dollars...

I know when I have been ripped off, and I have a long memory. That's why my last Midway order was 12 years ago!

[Pisgah]

Brownell's did the same thing to me on my last -- and I do mean my last -- two orders. Several items on each order, all "in stock" -- until each order arrived with one item "on backorder", shipping charged, of course -- and then, more shipping when the backordered items came in. No big deal if shipping were a buck or two, but when it's 8 or 10 dollars...

I know when I have been ripped off, and I have a long memory. That's why my last Midway order was 12 years ago!

[92&94]

I don't understand - the part you really needed was out of stock, so why place the order?...

It was an internet order. The item was shown as "in stock" and the order was confirmed the next day by email. I had been watching the item for several weeks, waiting for it to be shown as "in stock."
On the third day (this morning), I got another email informing me that the item was out of stock.

I called this morning to cancel the order entirely and was told that the order could not be cancelled.
If I had been told that the order was shipped, I would have accepted that as bad luck. However, I was told that the order had been "sent to the warehouse." That would seem to suggest that a quick call to the warehouse might have been in time to stop the order.

I don't expect anything for free but I do insist that folks at least pretend to care.
In my three score and seven years, I can still count the firms that I will no longer patronize, including Brownells, on the fingers of one hand.

On the other hand, no pun intended, are companies that go to great lengths to service even the smallest accounts.

Burris has twice sent small parts and lens caps at no charge when I called trying to buy these items. The last time they even sent a very nice key chain with a Burris logo. They make very good red dot sights for very reasonable prices. I have four Burris red dot sights and three rifle scopes and will look at Burris first.

When my 30 year old Dillon Square Deal press ate a primer anvil and seized up solid, they sent about a hundred dollars worth of parts so that I could restore the press to new condition. This was after I told them that the press no longer met my needs and I was going to sell it! I still recommend Dillon presses for those folks who need a progressive press, even though I am no longer in that group.

I started buying from Midsouth Shooters Supply after Midway inexplicably divided a small order into three parts and shipped it all the same day, charging me triple shipping charges.
Midsouth has been supplying my reloading needs with nary an issue for more than ten years. Midway could have had my business if they simply admitted their error and pretended like they cared.

I am not foolish enough to think that my business will make or break any business. I get requests from new shooters all of the time and I never fail to recommend good places to buy or warn of others that might be best avoided.

Jack

Sounds like your displeasure with them is well founded, and vancelw's preference for Amazon is likewise well founded. I would be just a po'd in a similar situation, since I usually choose a vendor based on whether the stuff I need is in stock or not.

[CowboyTutt]

I don't share Vance's experiences with Amazon.com at all as I have always found it impossible to change an order with them once placed, but maybe they have recently changed their practices.

-Tutt

[horsesoldier03]

IMO, AMAZON is great, with Amazon Prime I get free shipping and express service. No spring should cost $8 to ship.

[CowboyTutt]

No spring should cost $8 to ship.

I would whole heartedly agree with that sentiment. Regards, -Tutt

[vancelw]

I don't share Vance's experiences with Amazon.com at all as I have always found it impossible to change an order with them once placed, but maybe they have recently changed their practices.

-Tutt

You just have to catch it before it actually ships...which means you have from 0 to 23 hours to change it, depending on what time of day you placed the order.

I'm not going to say I've never had problems with Amazon. but they sure are more pleasant about fixing problems than any other vendor.
Their prices used to always be higher, but now they seem to be more competitive on more items.

I used to buy a lot of stuff from Midsouth....but for a long time, if you placed a lot of items in your cart, entered all the info...suddenly POOF your cart was empty. Got to be too tedious to me. I think they have revamped their site recently, but I haven't given it a try.

I placed an order on 03/24 from MidWay....still waiting....I called to ask about it and got a snippy response... I emailed and got a "we can't do anything about it" response. I know what I'm going to do....if I can do without it for 2 weeks plus, I probably didn't need it. And I guess they don't need my business that badly, either.

[Streetstar]

No spring should cost $8 to ship.

Well .............. maybe a hood hinge spring for a '75 Chevrolet C/10 pickup (fresh on my mind due to an old truck project i have --- perhaps event the springs used for the suspension would cost a bit to ship --- but i digress --

i agree, a spring for a firearm (almost any spring ) should not be 8 clams to ship

[rodeo kid]

I have had the same thing happen with Cabela's, but when something was backordered they never charged shipping on the second. It may be something to do with being a Cabela's club member, but I have never been charged shipping twice on the same order. God Bless.

[bdhold]

that's the normal way to do business - also, to give you the option to back-order or not and to cancel the entire order if the back-order does not have a projected short-term stock date.

[cas]

Brownells used to have a lightweight shipping option for stuff like this, around $4 when they'd send you something that weighed a few ounces in a small padded envelope. It's been a while since I've seen that option, now they're charging you full boat.

[bdhold]

we have you second amendment nuts by the short, um, I mean, it's a seller's market

[rbertalotto]

If it fits it ships small box is $5.25 to ship anywhere in USA. Why aren't more Internet companies using this method?

[bdhold]

because UPS ground is cheaper for them and their contracts, but they hit you up for handling

[Griff]

Very different than my latest experience w/Brownell's. I ordered some replacement bits (lost not broken, in whatever place they run off to when left outside the storage box), for my driver set and the following morning I realized I typed in a wrong number. I called, explained the error, and they agreed to change the order to the correct bit. When I recv'd the order, BOTH bits were included, but another item was shown as B/O'd, yet it was in the package. I called again, cancelled the B/O'd item. A week later it showed up, so I returned it with a note and copies of both invoices...

I gave up after they'd shipped a duplicate item, charging me once, then crediting me with the return item plus shipping. I called explained that I wasn't due a credit... couldn't get them to understand. So, thanks for the $17 bit set!

Their explanation? We're getting ready to move to a new facility and things are a bit disorganized. Ya think?

[Chuck 100 yd]

Brownells is opening a new warehouse in a different location also in Iowa. I believe they are shipping parts from both locations but controlling from the old home base. I can see how things can get all mixed up. I have been buying from them since lBC (long before computers) and will continue to do the same.
The shipping department in my shop is ME. Let's say I sell a holster to someone on Leverguns forum.
I print out a shipping label,stuff it in a box,tape it up and pay the post man $7.00 +. I donated my time and fuel to get to the post office and you think Brownells can do that and afford to keep the doors open?
I am glad they will even deal with a guy like me who sometimes orders a single screw or pin that costs less than a buck and even give me the dealer discount on top of that. If I need small part and nothing else,I call in my order instead of doing it online and make sure they ship priority mail and at the same time the sales rep I am talking to can verify stock. That way my order goes right to the top of the stack and I am assured that I will get my part rather than relying on chance they will sell out before my order is filled. Make sense?
Some company's charge double and ship for free. Snap-on tools comes to mind. It's a game they play.

[Catshooter]

When I see these sort of rants I always wonder: what part of the story aren't we hearing?

Especially with companies of long standing that have a reputation for good customer service that is just as long.



Cat

[vancelw]

When I see these sort of rants I always wonder: what part of the story aren't we hearing?

Especially with companies of long standing that have a reputation for good customer service that is just as long.



Cat

Sometimes a rant is just a rant with no ulterior motive other than to vent.

Just because 999 people were content with their service, doesn't negate the experience of the 1 who wasn't. Bumps are what you grow on, whether it be a bad shopping experience or a PO'd customer.

[CowboyTutt]

Just because 999 people were content with their service, doesn't negate the experience of the 1 who wasn't.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me at all statistically speaking. If Brownell's customer service rating is as high as you make it out to be in your post (999 vs 1), then the OP's experience would be a statistical "flyer" and not worthy of consideration.

I think Brownell's is very accessible through their "online chat assistant" or by phone to check the status of the parts ordered based upon the posts on this thread. I would strongly recommend that consumers use these features to place their orders. It will save a lot of headache. My recent order with Brownell's was a very favorable experience as they helped me to pick the parts for my order, to see that they were "in stock" and shipped very quickly.

That being said, paying $8 dollars to ship a spring is not reasonable IMHO. In this regard, Brownell's needs to offer another solution including canceling the order altogether. That I would truly agree with, but perhaps the whole situation could have been avoided by placing the order in another context.

Regards,

-Tutt

[vancelw]

Just because 999 people were content with their service, doesn't negate the experience of the 1 who wasn't.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me at all statistically speaking. If Brownell's customer service rating is as high as you make it out to be in your post (999 vs 1), then the OP's experience would be a statistical "flyer" and not worthy of consideration.

It's worthy of consideration to the OP I would say he doesn't care if it makes sense to you, but he did post it here, so I guess he must.

Good Lawd....some people are pee-ing and moaning because the OP was pee-ing and moaning. If his "rant" bothers you, just move on to the next topic. Or better yet, create a levergun related one.

[Panzercat]

Dispute the charge as 'billed incorrect amount' or something. The cc company will probably auto process it in your favor because it takes more money to actually dispute it for real with the vendor in question. <--- Real advise from a once upon a time amex employee.

[CowboyTutt]

I am sorry about the OP's experience but I actually thought there were some meaningful posts about

1. What are realistic expectations to pay for shipping while preventing the company from hopefully going out of business.

2. How to avoid this sort of problem in the future by using chat assistance or by placing a phone call directly to check if the item is in stock and place the order and

3. How to correct the current over-charge.

Hopefully some of this information will be helpful to the OP in this situation and in the near future. I suspect most of us have been burned on shipping costs before at some time or another by some company. Not everyone has a bad experience with Brownell's apparently. Maybe we just need to learn how to better work their system OR get them to change it if it adversely affects a lot of people.

Regards,

-Tutt

[vancelw]

Doesn't placing a phone call prior to ordering defeat the whole benefit of ordering online?
If you can't trust the computer that says it's in stock, can you trust the person on the phone who is looking at the computer to see if it's in stock?

OP wasn't griping about shipping charges. He was griping about not being told his item was out of stock until he placed an order that he couldn't cancel.

He figured out how to avoid it...he ordered from somewhere else.

I've never ordered anything from Brownell's myself. They are high priced and the item I seem to need at the time is always out of stock.
OTOH, I have ordered from Sinclair's a few times, and had a good luck with prices and availability. Funny, since they are sister companies. Must be different managers.

[457121]

i order from Brownells a couple times a year. Used to call in orders. The first time I was tried their online ordering I was appalled that the cheapest shipping was $12 UPS. Everything I order from them is tiny and light. So I didn't order online and the next day called and asked "can't you ship a spring and a front sight USPS?" They said "sure". So I never order online from them.

[CowboyTutt]

Vance, you are very old school I think. Websites are often not updated as quickly as inventory is and a phone call can often result in the sales consultant putting you on hold and actually checking on the inventory itself by calling that department. The same applies when dealing with a sales consultant by chat. He tells me to wait a minute and he will get back to me. I got everything I needed from Brownells on my last order and all the items the sales consultant told me were in stock actually WERE in stock. So maybe your "trust issues" with Brownell's staff are unfounded, not fair, and since you have never dealt with them in person, you are in fact only speculating. Brownells may charge a bit more, but they also have a huge, huge variety of parts. Like many businesses, maybe they feel this gives them the privilege to charge more for their products in general just like any grocery store chain that stocks obscure food items does. As you have pointed out, you don't need to purchase from them if you don't like them. Whatever works for you.

If you only want to purchase items online and not make a call or use the "chat sales consultant" who will show up as a "pop up" as soon as you start shopping on Brownell's, that is your conscious choice.

For you perhaps a company that only does business online and does not even offer sales consultants by phone or by chat, might be the better option.

But when it comes time for a complaint, good luck getting a hold of someone on an "internet only" company. Sometimes it can be incredibly difficult. Not all the time, but sometimes yes.

Regards,

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

45721, just saw your post. Maybe Brownell's is more "old school" than even Vance is and prefer to do things by phone. What a complicated world we live in.

Regards,

-Tutt