Looking for 30-30 and 32 Special ballistics from early 1900s

[Canuck Bob]

I am just doing some personal research. Does anyone have the ballistic data from the early days of the 30-30 and 32 Special?

I'm looking to compare data for similar bullet weights from the same manufacturers if possible, please? I've bumped into some references that suggest there was a wider difference reported back then but no-one backs that up with data from the era. This would add some credence to the suggestion that the 32 Special was added as a mid power cartridge between the 30-30 and 30-40 Krag.

One interesting comparison I did once was using data from the Hodgdon data site. They list comparable pressure tests and I assumed similar safety standards and margins were employed. They don't list a load for Leverevolution powder and the 32S which does work well in the 30-30. Using a 24" 30-30 barrel and a 20" 32 Special barrel the differences were notable.

Using CFE 223, first for 32 Special velocity and second for 30-30 after LVR powder, to compare it was 2258 versus 2359, adding a 40 fps for the 4" of barrel arguably gives a 2400 fps for the 32 S. It is interesting that CFE 223 in a 32 Special outperformed Leverevolution in the 30-30. If CFE 223 wasn't unobtanium up here it sure would warrant a test pound! This, of course, does not factor in differences between barrels.

100-150 fps is a notable difference but in the real world any deer or bear isn't going to care or notice. Just a lever geek would even find such chats a little interesting. I suspect at least a couple of other lever geeks hang around here. However I could be wrong!

[vancelw]

The earliest data I have is from the 1948 Lyman Ideal Hand Book No. 35

For .30-30, it shows a 170 gr. bullet using 33.5 gr of 3031 going 2300 fps
For .32 WS, it shows a 170 gr. bullet using 33.5 gr of 3031 going 2230 fps

The calculator shows that to be 1997 and 1877 ft-lbs muzzle energy, respectively. Seems awful conservative on the 32 to me. The .35 Whelen will push the same weight .358 bullet faster than the -'06 will a .308 bullet, using the same powder charge, due to increased bullet base size. you would think a .321 vs .308 would be the same way.

It would definitely be interesting to see what data Winchester relied on in the day.

[BigSky56]

Cartridges of the world or goggle will help, it was a 160 gr jacketed @1970 fps 30 grs of smokeless powder. danny

[Canuck Bob]

The earliest data I have is from the 1948 Lyman Ideal Hand Book No. 35

For .30-30, it shows a 170 gr. bullet using 33.5 gr of 3031 going 2300 fps
For .32 WS, it shows a 170 gr. bullet using 33.5 gr of 3031 going 2230 fps

The calculator shows that to be 1997 and 1877 ft-lbs muzzle energy, respectively. Seems awful conservative on the 32 to me. The .35 Whelen will push the same weight .358 bullet faster than the -'06 will a .308 bullet, using the same powder charge, due to increased bullet base size. you would think a .321 vs .308 would be the same way.

It would definitely be interesting to see what data Winchester relied on in the day.

It is interesting that McPherson's article What Makes It Special? he notes 1989 winchester data that shows a favorable velocity for the Special but of interest is the pressure set for the 32. It is noticeably lower for the 32, 36000 CUP versus 32500 Cup.

[w30wcf]

Bob,

1905 Winchester Catalog
velocities taken at 50 ft.
30 WCF - 170 gr. 1,960 fps
32 W S - 170 gr. 2,050 fps

1910 Winchester catalog
muzzle velocities
30 WCF - 170 gr. 2,008fps
32 W S - 170 gr. 2,112 fps

w30wcf

[Ray Newman]

A good and economical source for copies of the various domestic and foreign manufacturers' firearms and ammunition catalogs is Cornell Publications: www.cornellpubs.com/index.php

[Canuck Bob]

w30wcf your reference sources and knowledge always surprises me, thanks.

Looks like a 100 fps advantage is a good estimate for 32 Special versus the 30-30. Works for 3 references, two from the past and one current.

Bob,

1905 Winchester Catalog
velocities taken at 50 ft.
30 WCF - 170 gr. 1,960 fps
32 W S - 170 gr. 2,050 fps

1910 Winchester catalog
muzzle velocities
30 WCF - 170 gr. 2,008fps
32 W S - 170 gr. 2,112 fps

w30wcf

[Canuck Bob]

A good and economical source for copies of the various domestic and foreign manufacturers' firearms and ammunition catalogs is Cornell Publications: http://www.cornellpubs.com/index.php

new bookmark thanks

Bob