Question about what to feed this old 44-40 1873 Winchester

[Clarkm]

I got two old Winchesters two days ago, shipped from the great great grandson of the original owner.
The 1873 was made in 1886. It seems to be in good working order, but the stocks are split, chunks missing, and initials carved in them.
I slugged the bore:
0.423" bore
0.433" grooves

What dies to buy?
What bullets to buy?
What powder to use
What powder charge?
Any reloading tricks associated with this?
TIA

[Pete44ru]

.

Welcome !

I'm sure some other board member will chime in shortly, so I'll get my $0.02 in while I have the chance.

First, i would have a qualified gunsmith (not some parts-changer) check the rifle to see if' it's safe to fire at all, before any repair/restoration.

Secondly, if the rifle checked out as OK to fire, since it was made in the days prior to the introduction of smokeless powders, I would shoot only black powder loaded cast lead boolits in it after repair/restoration.

Third, .44-40 cases are very thin, and are susceptible to being crushed in a reloading die, so care should be taken when doing so.

Fourth, I won't suggest any specific powder and/or loads, lest I cause an accident in your rifle - maybe someone else might.

Any of the major die makers (RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Forster) make good/appropriate die sets.

Here's 4 pages of reloading dies, boolits & other accessories specifically meant for loading the .44-40:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/1172/1





.

[w30wcf]

clarkm,
Welcome to the forum.

I have an 1873 Winchester .44 W.C.F. made in 1883 with a .435” average groove diameter. Thankfully the chamber will accept cartridges loaded with .436” bullets made from a custom mold.

For your oversized ’73 ……

If you don’t cast your own bullets:

1.) Buffalo Arms Hollow base bullet will expand to fit the groove diameter
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 1&CAT=4135

2.) Desperado 200 gr. .430” diameter soft cast bullet loaded over 6.5 grs of Trail Boss smokeless or 36 grs. of Swiss FFG or Olde Enysford FFG black powder will bump up the bullet to fit the barrel.
http://www.cowboybullets.com/44-cal-200-grain_p_21.html

If you do cast your own bullets:

1.) If the chamber will accept a cartridge with a bullet that is at least groove size or better yet, a bullet, that would be .001”-.002” over that dimension. Accurate Molds can make a mold to ones specifications.
www.accuratemolds.com

2.) Accurate bullet 43-200Q designed by Ed Harris. “For 44-40 with large groove diameter and small chamber.” http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 200Q-D.png

This is a customer's clever idea to address a common problem with old black powder 44WCFs. How to get a bullet which is large enough to fit groove diameter but small enough to fit in the case and still chamber. The over-sized front band is swaged down by the seating die when loading, creating a maximum diameter stop ring. For this application, it has been successful.

This bullet shoots well in my oversize ’73.

Powders: See:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

w30wcf

[M. M. Wright]

I have lots of 44-40s and mostly shoot black powder in them. You need a bullet of .434 to fill out the grooves of your barrel which probably means a custom mold. Get one with a huge grease groove and lube it with SPG or some other black powder lube. Use enough ffg to fill the case about 1/8th inch above the base of the bullet when seated and let the bullet compress the charge that amount. Cases must be lubed before sizing as only straight walled cases work in carbide dies. That barrel looks wonderful and I only hope the chamber will accept a cartridge loaded with a bullet of that diameter. I have the best luck with either Starline or Winchester brass when trying to get .429 bullets to go so try them before giving up. A really good smith can open up that throat to accept the loads you need to use so don't despair. You just have to try it.

Welcome aboard, we'll help you get 'er shootin'.

[mack]

For what it's worth, a 205gr in pure lead from a Lyman 427098, as cast/un-sized, worked for me in two old "oversize" '92 bores. Red Dot and Unique Cowboy loads shot pretty well in both. If the '73 checks out as sound, they may work for you. If the bore is rougher than it looks, you will do a lot of cleaning.

[ollogger]

great old 73 & the bore looks a lot better than most!!
I have shot smokeless in 73s with no problems, I use a Lee factory crimp die for the 44-40
or a bunch of others also


ollogger

[KirkD]

Congratulations on your acquisition. I've had a few original Model 1873's chambered in 44 W.C.F. (44-40), including one nice one I have right now made in 1889. I shoot nothing but smokeless in these old guns, if there is any roughness in the bore at all. Your bore looks very good, better than most. You should be able to get 5-shot groups of under 3" at 100 yards no problem with the right loads. My bore has a groove diameter of .433 and I size my soft cast bullets to .431, as any larger and the cartridge is tight to chamber. No problem, however, as the bullet bumps up with a proper burn rate of powder that is close to black powder burn rates. I use 2400, Blue Dot or the slowest powder I'll use for this is 5744. w30wcf has given some excellent input. I'm away from home for a few days, deep in the Ontario woods, so I don' t have my load data with me. Got a nice Whitetail doe with mine a year and a half ago.

[AJMD429]

I shoot nothing but smokeless in these old guns, if there is any roughness in the bore at all . . . . // . . . . No problem, however, as the bullet bumps up with a proper burn rate of powder that is close to black powder burn rates. I use 2400, Blue Dot or the slowest powder I'll use for this is 5744.

I agree. Black Powder has some advantages; it is very predictable when used properly, smells cool, brings the ultimate 'nostalgic' experience to shooting, and of course IS the powder these guns were built for. On the other hand, it is hygroscopic and certainly more corrosive than smokeless powders, and way more of a pain to clean your firearm afterwards (and I know that 'cleaning and fondling' is part of the complete shooting experience).

From all the scientific evidence, there is no reason the PROPER smokeless powders can't be substituted for black powder - there are several threads on this forum dealing with that very topic.

In particular, a gun with an already-pitted bore is going to be even more vulnerable to further corrosion.