OT-Neigbors decided to cut some of my trees down--what next

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:27 pm

Basically to get to the short and sweet, I own some property in up sate MI (UP) and walked the property line this fall for the first time in several years. Since my last walk up there, my neighbor has built a summer home and basically clear cut 4 out of her 10 acres (water front on Lake Superior). As I walked the front of my place, I followed the blue marked lines and trees from the last survey that was done 15 years ago. It was then I noticed that on the line between their house and my property line, they took it upon themselves to cut down several of my larger trees to include two large curly oaks which p%$#@ me off. This place is old growth forest and has never been cut. It was once owned my Henry Ford where he had a summer home. When I say on the property line, I mean well inside of mine (roughly 15ft). They also stacked a 15ft pile of brush, half burnt logs and other debris on my property as well. These folks are from down state and apparently don't respect others. Apparently they also don't know that homes have been torched up there for lesser infractions (disclaimer-- I would never resort to this). Lucky for me, I took a metric ton of pictures to include the tree stumps and the well marked property lines.

After I calmed down a bit, I did some research and found that in the state of Michigan, this is criminal trespass and my wonderful neighbors are now liable for 3 times the cost of the replacement of said trees. However, I am unsure of what steps to take next. I might be calling the Sheriffs this weekend to file a complaint but this will most likely be referred to small claims. Just trying to figure out my next move. My old man is telling me to write these folks a nice letter to explain to them what legal action I have and to remove said pile of burnt stuff off of my land. However, I am not sure I want to give them a heads up. They are also snow birds so their mail may or may not be forwarded. Ideas?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:36 pm

C wire, claymores and M240 on T&E.

Or were you looking for a different kind of advice?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:41 pm

Lawyer. A MI lawyer.

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:45 pm

sore shoulder wrote:C wire, claymores and M240 on T&E.

Or were you looking for a different kind of advice?

Those exact thoughts crossed my mind but self control got the better of me.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:03 am

It would be interesting to get a quote on replacement trees when you are dealing with 200 year old oaks...!

No doubt if there is enough money and motivation, it probably could be done, but he cost would be astronomical. However, it might make an interesting conversation starter to let them know you have the upper hand.

My personal approach would be to get some basic legal backup to verify my potential leverage, then politely let them know of thir predicament and liability to you, then work from there to negotiate a peaceful enough outcome that the two of you could become and remain friendly neighbors. No matter how beautiful the place is, if you have an adversarial relationship with your neighbors, it will become very unpleasant to visit, even if you are 'in the right'.

Having dealt with survey lines on my own property over the years, it is quite possible that they had a survey done which led them to believe the previous survey was wrong. In some cases, the way boundaries are defined, they actually move due to 'accretion' of water bodies. One of the property lines defining our property vs our neighbors property moves that way due to river erosion, but it became sort of moot when we bought the neighbor's place. Moves a couple feet one way or the other each year, and about 17 feet since the 1950's.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:14 am

AJMD429 wrote:It would be interesting to get a quote on replacement trees when you are dealing with 200 year old oaks...!...

Yep, 3 times the value just might be well outside of small claims court!

AJMD429 wrote:..My personal approach would be to get some basic legal backup to verify my potential leverage, then politely let them know of thir predicament and liability to you, then work from there to negotiate a peaceful enough outcome that the two of you could become and remain friendly neighbors. No matter how beautiful the place is, if you have an adversarial relationship with your neighbors, it will become very unpleasant to visit, even if you are 'in the right'...

I have a lawyer who's also a long time cowboy shooter... I bounce ideas off him... He always tell me to do the research, draft a letter, let him look it over and when finalized, "cc" him at his office with his title and firm's name, and mail it off. He tells me he'll file it in my file, along with any replies that may flow back... I've never had to go beyond that... even when dealing with big outfits like Sears, city hall, etc... And, have yet to receive a bill... I figure that when I do... it'll be a whopper... and I'll have really needed his services!

geobru · Post by **geobru** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:58 am

I have spent most of my life as a forester in the timber industry and have seen this happen before. After getting over the angst of losing the trees, the first thing I would want to know is how much value was in the trees. If the trees are 15 feet from the line, it was not an accident that they were taken. The owners may not have been aware of the value, but their logger would have been fully aware of the value. Have a forester who is familiar with the area measure the stumps. The forester should be able to make some educated guesses to determine the value of the logs that came out of the trees.

Triple stumpage seems to be a pretty standard penalty across the country when trespass occurs. Ultimately, you will have to get an attorney to pursue the litigation, but the forester will provide information that the attorney will need.

Good luck on this!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:16 am

They stole your property, then left you with the mess. Have a professional figure out what your damages are and tell them you want to be reimbursed face to face or on the phone. If they are unwilling after you tried to be reasonable it will look better for you when you do take them to court.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:08 am

Rusty wrote:They stole your property, then left you with the mess. Have a professional figure out what your damages are and tell them you want to be reimbursed face to face or on the phone. If they are unwilling after you tried to be reasonable it will look better for you when you do take them to court.

Agree with this, except don't make your demand face-to-face or by phone. Do it with a registered-mail letter with a return receipt, give them a fixed number of days to respond, and if they fail to respond or refuse to compensate you -- time for a lawyer, who will include legal fees in the Summons and Complaint.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:25 am

Nothing in this world is worse than having an unoccupied property next door to an adversarial neighbor. The trees are gone....can't be replaced. I'd simply have a conversation with them, letting them be aware that you do not intend legal action, but are very disappointed in the situation. They could turn out to be great folks but just made a terrible mistake. Excellent neighbors in a vacation area are worth the price of 1000 trees.

Life is too short........."Choose The Mountain On Which You Might Die!"..........This ain't that mountain......

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:47 am

I had this very problem myself when we first bought this property. A neighbor drove his tractor onto my land, ran a line across the river to the other bank, which was also my property, cut a walnut and dragged it across the river, up a sandbar and and over onto his property.

We had a meeting soon there after, on Sunday morning, and I explained how that would never happen again. Since then he has always pushed the limits but he seems to have taken me seriously. He is a known jerk however.

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:16 am

Mich Hunter,
Where is your place up here? I know Ford had a place by Alberta which is pretty close to me. If so, I could help you find some forestry people in the area to help with an assessment.

Eric

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:49 am

Yooper,

This particular parcel that I am referring to is just north of L'anse in Pequaming. I am trying to find someone local up there that can give me an estimate on the replacement. If you have someone in mind, please let me know and I can PM you the details. I am trying to make another trip up in May before the bugs get too bad but I am slated for another trip over the pond soon there after (still active duty mil) so it may or may not happen.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:52 am

Hard Timber is never cheap to buy. The fact that it was criminal tresspass, I would contact the sheriff and have them do the report as a minimum. From there, I would push it to court. You might have luck getting the county ag agent or conservation officer to assist you in determining a dollar value for damage and theft.

superchicken · Post by **superchicken** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:15 am

You may want to talk with them first. If this is a lakefront cabin situation, it's possible they had a contractor do the work for them. Its not unheard of to have those folks step across a line and cut something that's worth some money when they figure they have an absentee landowner who will never notice. I would calmly bring this up with the neighbor and give them a chance to make it right before you start a war. No one wants to have a never ending dispute with their neighbors. If they cannot address the situation properly, then it's time for law enforcement and lawyers.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:17 am

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:39 am

In spite of the fact that I have a highly confrontational nature when wronged, I agree with the poster who said talk to the neighbor before pursuing legal action. The will most likely blame the contractor and give you the name. In the meantime I would pursue the valuation of the trees, however, make sure it isn't the same forester who did the work in the first place.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:48 am

.

I also would parley with them, FTF, after getting a written value assessment.

Even if a contractor did the vacation home build, ultimately the landowner is responsible for the contractor's action - one or the other (and most likely not the tooth fairy) took your trees & left the mess.
(If it ends up in litigation, the chain would usually be: you sue them; then they sue the contractor for his antics)

If the FTF ends with a result not to your satisfaction, then IMHO it's time for the formal registered letter & a formal complaint to the local authorities.

.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:51 am

Criminal trespass occurred, as well as the theft of the timber. Also, some form of illegal dumping occurred.
Contact law enforcement ASAP. It helps establish a timeline. Law enforcement won't be able to do much, as it will be a finger-pointing fest', but you will have a report that you had a crime occur.

Then, do all your research, lawyer conferencing, etc.
Then talk to the neighbors (if the lawyer recommends) Otherwise begin legal action.

I completely understand the value and benefit of good, friendly neighbors in a remote area. You obviously don't have that. I would be less aggravated if they had killed my favorite horse than killing 200 year old trees and dumping trash on me. If they "just made a mistake" or the contractor did it....THEY STILL KNEW what they did and should have already come to you to make it right. Not hunker down and hope you never notice.

Triple damages! Sheesh. How are you gonna get 600 years out of them? To me, a 200 year old tree is priceless. No matter what you get in damages, those trees are gone forever.

I'd have multiple hidden cameras out to establish a pattern of trespassing for when we went to court.

Man....y'all got me all riled up this morning

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:03 am

IMO,
It is the homeowner's responsibility to right this. He can take it up with the logging contractor. Any contact to the homeowner would be through legal channels. If this does go to court, you do not want to give the homeowner any way to play he-said-she-said. At the bare minimum you have to protect against Adverse Possession by claiming your land back. I would do so with a lawyer. You might not be able to recoup the replacement of the trees after paying the lawyer, but you'll have an Instrument #, Book/Page #s attached to your property at the Clerk of Court stating your claim.

I've never sued anyone, but I'd go straight to the courts.

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:24 pm

I sent you a PM.

Eric

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:41 pm

W-I-R-E F-E-N-C-E !!!

Take pictures or the remaining high-end trees, just in case.

then have your attorney (if you're smart enough to carry a gun, you're smart enough to have an attorney) prep for a claim including an injunction to prevent repeat trespass. Then approach the neighbors like a grown-up (with a witness!) and discuss the why, what and next steps for reparations. If the discussion goes south, retreat and launch the legal actions the same day.

And maybe a few early hours of high-power target practice on your own property while the neighbors are home?
I once got Realtors to stop bugging me to hire them, by letting them know my plans for a 200-yrd high-power rifle range on my land. They all quit calling...

Sounds as if you've a need to visit yur property more often...?

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:53 pm

Good Lord I hope somehow this all works out...I would try to contact the landowner first. I think "whoever" cut the trees knew exactly what they were doing. We have had trouble off and on with our neighbors for years. they had a few acres logged and they walked the property line with the loggers to make sure they were well inside the line. the owner of the logging company told Me that He was just doing them a favor buy taking the wood off their hands as it was low grade .... oak, maple and prolly 50 black cherry trees about 100+' tall.

. low grade......

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:37 pm

sore shoulder wrote:C wire, claymores and M240 on T&E.

Or were you looking for a different kind of advice?

Oh man!!!! I like this guy!

----6

On another note, I personally like to capitalize on everything, so......a nice talk......get all of the info......don't let the enemy know your coming over the hill............see just how much "their attitude" had to do with the whole thing ......and.........if they are people who drive a Mercedes with their nose in the air.......sue the living shut out of the snot rags.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:41 pm

I'm sorry for shouting, but WHY ARE YOU LOOKING TO US FOR ADVISE? We have plenty of opinions (as you've seen so far) and what we say means /nothing/. Zip. Nil.

Call the appropriate law enforcement organization, get it documented.

Talk to a real lawyer and do what he or she tells you. If lawyer says talk to neighbors first, do that. If lawyer recommends other action, do that.

DO NOT talk to anyone else before you talk to a lawyer. No one.

Do not wait. Do not dither. Do not ask around at the local coffee shop or other forums. Call the boys/girls with the badges and a good local lawyer.

Now go, you. After you've done the LEO thing and the lawyer thing, let us know.

Hungarian · Post by **Hungarian** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:43 pm

I feel bad for you. I know I would be angry if this happened to me. Sue them....

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Wecsoger,
Sometimes when a person is emotional with an issue, his mind does not work right. I am one of those people...when I get pisssssed, I punch first and ask questions later.....so.......Michigan Hunter is doing the right thing.

He is getting an assortment of attitudes from different people so he can make the final deduction......I think he is doing just fine.

But......like I said in my earlier post......it's always a good thing to get the attitude of the opposing party......some people really do think they are exempt from encroaching on other people's happiness..........to which I love seeing them pay for their "attitude."

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:24 pm

wecsoger wrote:I'm sorry for shouting, but WHY ARE YOU LOOKING TO US FOR ADVISE? We have plenty of opinions (as you've seen so far) and what we say means /nothing/. Zip. Nil.

Call the appropriate law enforcement organization, get it documented.

Talk to a real lawyer and do what he or she tells you. If lawyer says talk to neighbors first, do that. If lawyer recommends other action, do that.

DO NOT talk to anyone else before you talk to a lawyer. No one.

Do not wait. Do not dither. Do not ask around at the local coffee shop or other forums. Call the boys/girls with the badges and a good local lawyer.

Now go, you. After you've done the LEO thing and the lawyer thing, let us know.

+1. Let us know after it's over and done with. Anything said in public (even is jest) will be used against you.

It was mentioned he should visit property more often. Not always possible. I only have 35 acres and still get a surprise every now and then when I find time to walk the perimeter.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:36 pm

[quote="wecsoger"]I'm sorry for shouting, but WHY ARE YOU LOOKING TO US FOR ADVISE? We have plenty of opinions (as you've seen so far) and what we say means /nothing/. Zip. Nil.

I'm a MI lawyer. Besides zip, nada, nil, bs, you're getting advice that's wrong under MI law. This formerly being a lumbering state, we have special laws on the books for this situation.

Do what West Codger

, above, says -- Find a mouthpiece.

BTW, I now your area, it's breathtakingly beautiful.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:44 pm

"West Codger"

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:48 pm

I've had to deal with one or two bad neighbors over the last 30 years.

In my experience, if you have a real yahoo, trying to be reasonable will only
be perceived as being weak. Do the following:

1. Make sure your survey is accurate. This might cost you a few hundred
bucks.
2. Document the damage with pictures.
3. Have a forester estimate your loss.
4. Talk to an attorney. Expensive, but probably worth it in this case.
5. Call the appropriate cops and let them talk to the neighbor. If they are
reasonable people and it truly is an oversight/mistake/miscommunication,
they'll work with you to make it right. If not, then that's what the cops get
paid for. It also avoids the "he said, she said", or "he threatened me" nonsense.

I feel for ya. idiot neighbors are NO FUN. Best of Luck to ya.

-Stretch

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:47 pm

You can hire a lawyer, or buy a backhoe. I recommend the lawyer.

Seems to me that they are liable regardless of whether their contractor acted on his own. If they wish to recoup damages they have had to pay from that contractor, that is their business rather than yours. Otherwise both can just pass the buck back and forth and you would be out of luck. A good lawyer can tell you just where you stand and what your chances are.

Personally, I would not contact them myself - all would go through the lawyer.

Once it's all done I might also invest in an electric fence

Maybe with a bit more juice than is typically used. I hear those rogue cattle up there are an awful nuisance! Gotta give them a real jolt

Really officer, the fence is to keep the cattle out!

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:48 pm

2571 is right bout timber laws which could be very favorable for you
giant oak veneer logs are high dollar, maybe in the UP you might have had some birds eye Maple?
they was worth a fortune some years back, but any good forester can tell if you had birds eye
and I also agree with six gun, when I was logging in Wis. I had more than 1 lawyer call me for help
on dealing with tree thieves

ollogger

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:28 pm

Sixgun wrote:Wecsoger,
Sometimes when a person is emotional with an issue, his mind does not work right. I am one of those people...when I get pisssssed, I punch first and ask questions later.....so.......Michigan Hunter is doing the right thing.

He is getting an assortment of attitudes from different people so he can make the final deduction......I think he is doing just fine.

But......like I said in my earlier post......it's always a good thing to get the attitude of the opposing party......some people really do think they are exempt from encroaching on other people's happiness..........to which I love seeing them pay for their "attitude."

This is pretty much why I asked the question here. I am usually a "go for the throat" type of guy but I have learned over my 36 years of existence that it's never wise to make decisions while angry. Marriage and two daughters have have working me over trying to get me to change but it's a work in progress. I have also always been told to seek the knowledge of those that have been around longer before making an informed decision.

Long story short, the property has been in the family for the last 25 years. I recently purchased it from my dad (also a go for the throat guy" on a land contract as he and his wife decided that it would always sit empty as long as they had it. It was a pretty screaming deal and I love the place so it is now mine. Now, our first run in with the new neighbors next store led us to believe they were a little off. Both were caught sun bathing nude on the Lake Superior shore line in front of their place enjoying some wine. I still have visions from them that 10 years of war cannot erase. They are both from down state in Ann Arbor so I doubt I need to say more.

While we were both up to his cabin in the UP last November, we both decided to take a drive and walk the property lines. It had been a couple years since we visited the place. He resides in Florida now and Uncle Sam has me 1400 miles away in Colorado. This is the main reason why I cannot make numerous trips up there. During that trip, we noticed that the neighbors had finished their summer home but this also led to the discovery of the trash pile, cut trees and construction debris on my place. Judging from where the trees were cut, they were trying to get heavy equipment in to complete their above ground septic. This half buried tank is roughly only a few feet off of the property line. I could understand an honest mistake but there are two dang trees right in front of them with blue circles around them. If you line yourself up on these trees, you will see the property line as it goes though the thick woods. If they would have made an attempt to contact me, I might even have gave them permission. However, the half burned pile of stuff on my place is a blatant disregard and disrespect to me. This just shows me that they are arrogant and not respectful. What really gets to me is that I am planning on having roughly 20 large veneer trees taken off of the place as they are at about the end of their lives. Two of the trees cut are veneer and they let them rot and burned the rest. Lucky for me, I took a lot of pictures of the damage and included the property line.

In regards to keeping a relationship with them, I honestly could care less. They are pushing their mid 60's and I will not be building up there for another 10 years. By the time I start, they will be permanent snow birds or will sell as most down state folks due. I am already looking at the adjacent 11 acres for sale on the other side of me just to increase the place. The parcel is also pretty remote and I have already contacted a retired military buddy of mine that I gave permission to hunt it as long as he watches the place for me.

It's looking like I will be contacting the Sheriff this weekend to file a complaint and go from there. I doubt there will be any movement though as the snow is still pretty deep up there.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:14 pm

1. We don't have permitted, sanctioned, civil trespass in MI; all trespass is criminal here. Some trespass is punished more seriously. For instance, we have a Trespass in a Cranberry Bog statute. We had 'range wars' here in the 19thCentury about logging rights.

2. We have special law about trees. IIRC, Malicious Destruction of an Ornamental Bush or Tree is a one year felony here.

3. If those naked, AA trolls can afford to build on lake front property that Ford owned, they can afford to pay for your damages.

4. Neighbors will not be hard to find. You'll track them down thru their taxation bills.

5. Cops may come out sooner than you think -- There's probably no more than 4½-5 feet of snow on the ground this time of year.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:09 am

Let someone else do the talking for you, They may try to claim you were threating them and try to turn this whole thing around. I feel for you, my new neighbor decided to cut a rode through the woods out to the pond, I had to inform the drunken A-hole that he was making a rode through my property and don't understand how he ever have came around the fence to do so. Long story short, I wound up gaining a bit more property, not much but it should keep him from making anymore mistakes. Good luck.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:11 am

If you've met them before and know them to be the kind of people you'd never want to interact with I can see going the whole legal thing from the start. I just usually like to escalate the use of force so to speak in a firm but gradual manner.

The location of the septic tank frankly would bother me as much as the missing trees. There usually should be some kind of setback from the property line for septic systems.

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:36 am

If it were me I'd:

File the Sheriff's report.
Get a letter from my lawyer friend citing the infractions.
Get an estimated value of the trees, both as standing timber and saw mill value.

Then I'd have a face to face with the other property owner, giving them only the last document. If we couldn't reach a settlement and a written promise to never molest my property again I'd hand them the copies of all three documents, have my lawyer both file a restraining order and a tort action against them, and request the Sheriff to proceed with an investigation of both criminal trespass and grand larceny. I might even hire a private investigator to help the Sheriff.

I don't know what the value of the trees are, but surely they are worth enough to defer the cost of a 6' fence along the property line. Or you could buy a small travel trailer to put on the property and make it available to all your veteran, firefighter, and police buddies that like to take long, quiet walks thru the woods with a rifle.

Rob

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:18 pm

I'm pretty sure after reading everything here that talking to them is a waste of time and counter productive to your just compensation. Call the sheriff, get a lawyer, have a survey done ,refuse to talk to them except through lawyers. Youre out of state anyway so let the appropriate agencies deal with it.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:23 pm

Pisgah wrote:
Rusty wrote:They stole your property, then left you with the mess. Have a professional figure out what your damages are and tell them you want to be reimbursed face to face or on the phone. If they are unwilling after you tried to be reasonable it will look better for you when you do take them to court.
Agree with this, except don't make your demand face-to-face or by phone. Do it with a registered-mail letter with a return receipt, give them a fixed number of days to respond, and if they fail to respond or refuse to compensate you -- time for a lawyer, who will include legal fees in the Summons and Complaint.

+1 exactly !!

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:40 pm

Re-reading the OP, I have to ask how sure is he that the neighbor did the damage? I knew a couple of criminal "tree surgeons" who could pull off this type of theft caper ten times a month once they knew the property owner had not bothered to visit in years. I knew of a dock that had been stolen the same way...

It is now 3 days later. If the OP has not spoken with an attorney by now, advice and opinions won't make a difference.

Again, "Good fences make good neighbors".

wm · Post by wm » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:53 pm

BlaineG wrote:Lawyer. A MI lawyer.

You have two matters to deal with...... a criminal complaint and a civil complaint. I would start with a cease and desist order to prevent further damage, get the local prosecutor involved and then sue. If you don't I am afraid it will only get worse.......people sometimes need to learn the hard way.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:12 pm

wm wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Lawyer. A MI lawyer.

You have two matters to deal with...... a criminal complaint and a civil complaint. I would start with a cease and desist order to prevent further damage, get the local prosecutor involved and then sue. If you don't I am afraid it will only get worse.......people sometimes need to learn the hard way.

+1. Call the sheriff, then a lawyer. You can always back off if it turns out they didn't know, are contrite, and it was the contractor. I doubt it though.

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:39 pm

mohavesam wrote:Re-reading the OP, I have to ask how sure is he that the neighbor did the damage? I knew a couple of criminal "tree surgeons" who could pull off this type of theft caper ten times a month once they knew the property owner had not bothered to visit in years. I knew of a dock that had been stolen the same way...

It is now 3 days later. If the OP has not spoken with an attorney by now, advice and opinions won't make a difference.

Again, "Good fences make good neighbors".

Good fences due make for good neighbors, however I am not at that point to run a fence through 11 acres of deep woods. Further issues with them and I will install a couple wireless cell cameras that records at my house. Just did this for my fathers place as we have had problems with trespassing. In regards to the trees…..Did I watch them cut them down? Of course not. Do I know they did? Pretty much yes I do. The trees that were cut were two oaks, and ash and 2-3 cedars just inside of my property line that had a survey 10 years ago. Those trees that were cut are also still on my property now as they are piled up in pieces. They attempted to burn some of them but by looking at it they just gave up. It's not like someone came in and cut the trees down to sell for cash. There are plenty closer to the road and these trees are 20 ft from my shoreline next to a 35ft cliff over looking Lake Superior. My place is gated and so is theirs. This place is off of the grid and you don't just go back there. They were not taken down to harvest.

I contacted an arborist today along with the Sheriff. I am awaiting phone calls back as we speak. However, with over 36in of snow on the ground right now, your not getting back there and you sure are not going to find the stumps. Both will have to wait until the snow melts off a bit but we shall see. A lawyer is wasted money right now until LE can confirm if I plan on going the criminal route

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:55 pm

.

That sounds to me like they dropped your trees to enhance the view of the lake from their property - reprehensible !

.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:52 pm

sore shoulder wrote:C wire, claymores and M240 on T&E.

Or were you looking for a different kind of advice?

Well, the M240 is a bit overkill, besides leaving it out in the open might cause it to rust up. The claymores on the other hand seem like just the ticket.

Seriously, contact an attorney.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:16 pm

firefuzz wrote:Or you could buy a small travel trailer to put on the property and make it available to all your veteran, firefighter, and police buddies that like to take long, quiet walks thru the woods with a rifle.

I really like the way you think...........

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:16 pm

This happened to me not too long ago on property just outside of Iron Mtn. Only difference, it was not just a couple of trees, but approximately five acres worth. 50 yards by 440 yards roughly.

A flat land neighbor had half his property pulped and had promised the contractor some "fine" bolt. The "fine" bolt just happened to be on my property. Neighbor blamed the contractor for the mistake and just happens to work for the prosecutors office in Cook County, FIB-land.

Called the sheriff, who appeared to be understanding and would take action. Sheriff came back to me a month later and asked if $1k would solve the problem. Turns out the contractor was somehow related to the sheriff's wife.

I said, "don't think so, a grand is not even close to the value of the thirty-two cords of fine bolt (some of MY RELATIVES are managers/buyers at the mill and know the contractor), and I want the trees put back". He asked if I was serious...of course I said yes.

Over the last year, my local relatives have accumulated over twenty sheriff's department citations for all kinds of supposed infractions. Most have been overturned in court, but the nuisance factor is unbelievable.

Contractor now has approached me and has submitted an offer for $6k to settle (approximately the mill price for the bolt). I am not...also my neighbor has one more chance at appeal before I confiscate his property. And...I have a restraining order against the sheriffs department...

This is part of what they left me: