Remington Expands Model Seven/700 Recall

[Pete44ru]

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Check Remington's recall page:

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...ty-center.aspx

"Remington Arms Company, LLC (“Remington”) is voluntarily recalling Remington Model 700™ and Model Seven™ rifles with X-Mark Pro® (“XMP®”) triggers, manufactured from May 1, 2006 to April 9, 2014."


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[AJMD429]

Remington says the press release was inaccurate...

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and ... rting.aspx

[Chuck 100 yd]

SO , What is the reason for the "recall" ? What is the supposed failure?
Nothing is said in the above links other than it was miss reported.

[Pete44ru]

SO , What is the reason for the "recall" ? What is the supposed failure?
Nothing is said in the above links other than it was miss reported.

IDK - But if I owned one (I don't), I'd surely be in touch with Remington Customer Service about it.


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[AJMD429]

There was a big deal (lots of lawsuits) a few years back regarding their trigger. Then earlier this year they said some of their guns (2006-2014?) might have 'excess stock finish or bonding material' in the action, which sounds related to the previous issue generating the lawsuits (foreign matter in the trigger causing danger).

Here's a thread I posted on the trigger issue four years ago - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31084

Anyway, as I understand it, their trigger has an extra piece that either is part of the sear, or a separate part of the trigger that contacts the sear. Anyway, if crud gets in there, it can supposedly cause the gun to fire when the bolt is opened, and I guess several accidental shootings were alleged to have happened when someone was opening the bolt and the gun discharged. Obviously it isn't a good idea to have a gun pointed at anything you don't mind shooting, even when 'unloading' it, but stuff does happen. I've walked in the house with frozen fingers and frosted-up glasses, and a chambered firearm, even though our normal 'rule' is to unchamber before going inside. If the gun (in this case a 1911) were going to go off when I attempted to un-chamber a round, although pointed at the concrete floor, no doubt something bad could happen. One shouldn't be cavalier about "the safety's on", but the whole reason the safety is there is because sometimes the 'safe' direction the muzzle is/was pointing was not as safe as the one with the gun thought.

I don't know enough about various firearms designs to know if that 'extra part' issue was legitimate vs. other commonly-used firearms, but enough people evidently thought it was, so the company is going to replace lots of triggers.

Unfortunately, these days when a manufacturer improves a product, it is often seen as a tacit admission that the previous one was 'unsafe', so they have to be careful how much they change it.

This article appears to be from someone with 'gunsmith' level knowledge, although it is posted on a Law Firm website:

• Article on the Remington-Walker-Haskell Trigger.

The author describes it as an 'over-ride' system vs. a 'direct-acting' system; not being a gunsmith, I have no idea how accurate the article is, but found it interesting enough to post back in 2010.

The Remington-Walker trigger is an “Over-ride” trigger system. That means it's not a “Direct-acting”
trigger that pulls the sear out of position with the cocking piece (like M-98, 03, etc). An over-ride
trigger props up the sear and is not attached to it. Winchester started the over-ride, or 'negative angle'
trigger in hunting rifles in the M-70 in 1937. Sako made an override trigger contained in a housing
that was then fastened to the action. Many custom trigger makers copied it just after the War. Timney,
Dayton-Traister, Canjar, Jewel, Ruger M77, A-bolts, Tikka - just name a modern bolt action rifle and
it'll have an over-ride trigger in it. They are crisp and allow very good trigger pulls. They are the
'standard' in modern bolt action rifles.

The Remington-Walker is different than all those others and patent #2,514,981 tells us why that is.

The Author has been 'discussed' quite a bit on firearms forums for daring to 'dis' a respected and iconic gunmaker, but does have some serious sounding credentials, including past president of the American Custom Gunmaker's Guild. Here's a CBS interview of Belk - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interview-with-jack-belk/

Somewhere else there is an interview of Merle Walker (one of the inventors of the trigger) where he says he also knew of the problem, and a "$2.00 per gun" fix he offered to Remington, but they allegedly declined. I don't have a link to that, but if I come across it I'll post it later.

The funniest (actually not) thing is all the guys who have Remingtons and say stuff like "Well, I've fired ten thousand rounds from MY Remington 700, and it has never misfired, so there's nothing wrong with any of them..." That is simply so statistically nonsensical as a defense that it boggles the mind, but brand loyalty is a strong thing, I guess. I guess it's no sillier than the guys who brag "Well, when it comes to MY guns, I keep dirt and rust and gunk out of them at all times..." I used to think like that, until times when too-thick a lubricant would seize up in the winter, or someone with a bunch of sand on their boot would step over my gear and dribble sand on everything.

I don't know if the Remington 700's involved are all that more dangerous than other rifles, but if I had one, I'd be checking, and perhaps replacing, the trigger, just in case.

[jhrosier]

So Cerberus, who has been trying unsuccessfully to get out of the gun business for political reasons, finds a way to push Remington under the bus while appearing blameless.
This is the same Cerberus that has pretty much gutted Marlin, H&R, and Bushmaster.

Probably just a coincidence.

Jack

[Nath]

My last Remmie 700 was a pain in the rump with that new trigger. Won't bother again. Remington have lost the plot as far as I am concerned. Happened some time in the nineties, doubt they will get it back!

N.

[superchicken]

I've had a couple of Rem 700s and a 660 that I wish I'd never sold. If I still had any of them, I would slap a Timney trigger in and never look back. Given what I've seen come out of Remington and Marlin lately, there is no way they would get one of my guns to work on.

The new Marlins that folks are saying are 'back' look to me like they were checkered by a rabid beaver who drinks too much coffee.

[TedH]

Good luck. I tried to send one of mine back when the recall first came out in April. Called and got registered, and was supposed to receive a box and shipping label and instructions. A month past with no box, so I called back. Got some story about a computer glich on the day I first called. Was assured a box in 5-7 days. 2 weeks pass, no box. Called a 3rd time, again promised a box in 5-7 days. No box has ever showed up, and they have not contacted me in any way, shape or form. I gave up on them, installed a Timney trigger, and have swore off anything with the Remington name in the future. If they cant manage to send me an empty box, why should I have any faith they can return my rifle? Sad what they have turned such an iconic company into.

[AJMD429]

The new Marlins that folks are saying are 'back' look to me like they were checkered by a rabid beaver who drinks too much coffee.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I only have one mod. 700. A .308 Varmint laminated stock. The firing pin group has been replaced with an after market speed unit and I put a Jewel varmint trigger in it also. So it has ZERO Remington fire control parts. I works and shoots great.

[AJMD429]

More on the Remington trigger problem - http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/12/06/re ... er-defect/

[Rusty]

I'd say at this point Timney is the only way to go.

[7.62 Precision]

Yes, I'd just change the trigger to aftermarket, rather than shipping to Remington.

There are a couple things about the Remington trigger. It is not such a bad trigger, but when Remington designed the 700, and as they modified it over the years, they knew the would have trouble competing with the Winchester 71 on design and features, so they have focused on price. The tube receiver, sandwiched recoil lug, etc., all made it cheaper to produce, and one of the things they did was design a drop-in trigger group that did not require fitting, and it mostly worked well. It might be possible, especially with a dirty trigger group, to trick the trigger so it releases when the safety is released, I don't know, but some claim you can.

However, I have done a bit of research, and it seems that Remington's position through the years has been the correct position - when an "accidental" discharge happened, they had customers return rifles to an independent test lab, who tested the triggers and then sent the rifles to Remington. In almost every case that a rifle did truly fire as a result of a fall, or a bump, or closing the bolt or releasing the safety, someone had done a botched trigger job.

On rifles that did not have the triggers modified by someone, they could not replicate any accidental discharge.

I think that through the years, most of the problems with rifles firing when the safety is pushed to fire are the result of fingers on the trigger, including the ones involved in the latest lawsuit, probably. I have seen people do it with an unloaded rifle - finger on the trigger, the thumb on the safety and extended stiff, they have to rotate the hand to push the safety forward, and that causes them to pull the trigger, and they don't even realize they pulled it.

It seems that in the last few years though, that there has been more issues, and I would not trust Remington as much as I might have in the past. Firing on bolt opening seems to be a more recently common thing.

[BigSky56]

The walker trigger does have a problem if not maintained and Iam not a expert on the trigger but gunk in the trigger or the wrong lube in cold weather will cause a problem, it did for my BIL 3 years ago with a rem 722 when I was hunting with him & his boy the rifle fired when his son took the safety off to fire at a speedgoat, the trigger mech was gunked up a timney was put in no more problems. The second was my hunting buddy's son he was in a northslope alder thicket after a bull caught the bull bedded down took the safety off and the 700 fired 5 hours later of looking for the bull he found the bull not far from where he first found him bedded again put the crosshairs on him and took the safety off it fired bull down in this case it was the lube that gummed up the trigger in the cold his dad put in a timney problem solved, this youngman takes a nice bull every year. danny

2013 elk.jpg

[firefuzz]

Having owned and shot dozens of Remington 700's over the years, in just about any weather/climate conditions the average person is like to run into, and having spent hours cleaning and servicing other peoples guns it's my semi-learned opinion that the original Remington 700 trigger design is just fine....as long as the gun is PROPERLY maintained and as 7.62 precision referred to, you keep idiots with jewelers screwdrivers away from the adjustment screws.

It's unbelievable the types and amounts of "lubricants" that people will squirt nilly-willy into guns and never consider the fact that a lot of oils harden over the years and that ALL of them collect any dust and debris that come into contact with them. As far as letting an untrained person "adjust" the trigger on a rifle....well, would you let that same person adjust the output on your pacemaker? The same results could happen.

As far as the new 700 trigger goes, I've only got/shot one on a 700 SPS in 300 Blackout. Out of the box it is the finest factory trigger I've ever shot. I called Remington about the recall, and yes my gun is on the list, and was told the concern was an over-application of sealant that might cause problems. I took the trigger off the gun and degreased and cleaned it to bare metal, re-lubed and re-installed it. Works just fine and breaks right at 41oz and I never touched a screw. They're not getting it back unless some other problem pops up.

Rob