It took TWO HOURS?

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:10 am

...For Arizona to execute a double murderer?
I can't believe this kind of incompetence. I had to put my Brittany down last year, and it was fast, peaceful and I believe, painless.
If the local veterinarian can do this so efficiently, what is up with these states?

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:11 am

maybe God did it

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:16 am

That's why I shake my head when libtards whine that hanging and the guillotine are cruel and barbaric. Even if the hanging failed so the neck didn't break, it wouldn't take two hours to expire. And look at the money we'd save on chemicals.
I can't help but wonder if part of the problem is these companies that are refusing to sell the proper drugs for lethal injection to the DOC. Did they have to change their formula at the last minute (due to unavailability) and get it wrong?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:28 am

Did the perp suffer as long and painfully as their victim? If not... too bad, so sad... shoulda...

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:04 am

Griff, I totally understand your point. My point is that the general public won't stand for incompetent executions. This kind of farce is already playing into the hands of those who wish to abolish the death penalty. We've never had a guillotine tradition, so that would be "unusual" under the Constitution. The British had hanging down to a science; the firing squad also is pretty foolproof; the gas chamber not so much from the cruelty standpoint, and same for the chair. The Chinese and Soviet-era bullet in the back of the head is fast, efficient and oddly humane.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:18 am

I'm with Griff on this subject. Let the punishment fit the crime. Were the victims terrorized for 2 hours before he did them in? Or did he sneak up on them and put a round into their head so they were killed "humanely"? Why should his punishment be "better" than what he inflicted on his victims?

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:39 am

Actually, it took 25 years, + two hours.

This guy actually dispatched his victims fairly quickly, gunshots to the chest in both cases. I remember this, it happened in Tucson shortly after I moved there.

On the one hand, I agree that if we are going to put people like this to death, it should be done quickly, whether by drugs, firing squad, or however.

On the other hand, I can't say as I have much sympathy for the murderer, its more a question of PR - looks bad to not do these things efficiently. This is certainly the direct result of pressure on pharmaceutical suppliers by the anti-death penalty lobby.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:40 am

mikld wrote:I'm with Griff on this subject. Let the punishment fit the crime. Were the victims terrorized for 2 hours before he did them in? Or did he sneak up on them and put a round into their head so they were killed "humanely"? Why should his punishment be "better" than what he inflicted on his victims?

Because as Americans, we can't, and shouldn't pick and choose from the Bill of Rights...

Personally, I'm for the bullet to the back of the head. Or, just use the same stuff vets use on animals....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:34 pm

92&94 wrote:Actually, it took 25 years, + two hours.

This guy actually dispatched his victims fairly quickly, gunshots to the chest in both cases. I remember this, it happened in Tucson shortly after I moved there.

On the one hand, I agree that if we are going to put people like this to death, it should be done quickly, whether by drugs, firing squad, or however.

On the other hand, I can't say as I have much sympathy for the murderer, its more a question of PR - looks bad to not do these things efficiently. This is certainly the direct result of pressure on pharmaceutical suppliers by the anti-death penalty lobby.

Yep.

Think of how much money taxpayers spent on the drugs and IV's and all that garbage (aside from all the court/trial/housing [for 25 ******* years

] costs, I'm betting just the executioner and pharmaceutical fees were in the thousands of dollars).

A 44 Mag to the back of the head would cost less than a dollar.

I don't think we should 'torture' or prolong suffering vindictively, but in the interest of being humane, I'm not sure the death row inmates are guaranteed to have an un-blemished body - just nothing "cruel and unusual".

If that's an issue, anyway, they could just give the inmate a choice:

a) Single shot to the brain,
b) Firing Squad,
c) Electrocution,
d) Lethal Injection,
e) Hanging,
f) Carbon Monoxide.

If they want the peaceful/pretty advantage of lethal injection, fine, but if they don't want to risk 'suffering', let them pick one of the old-fashioned ways.

Personally, if I were a 'next-of-kin' of one of their victims, I'd add another:

g) String trimmer, starting at the toes and working up.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:28 pm

An alternative flesh eating bacteria would be welcome. Nothing cruel or unusual about public execution. Fire ants?

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:39 pm

They should just hire Michael Jackson's doctor and let him handle their care.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:41 pm

A .44 to the head would have to be done outdoors, or the cost of a clean up crew would be prohibitive...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:53 pm

mikld wrote:A .44 to the head would have to be done outdoors, or the cost of a clean up crew would be prohibitive...

Over the fish pond.....

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:33 pm

Bill, I don't disagree. It should be done quickly & efficient. The executioner should, at the very least, be competent at whatever method is used.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:49 pm

.

The executed prisoner's lawyer has stated that he felt no pain - IDK whether that lawyer meant his client or hisself.........

.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:19 pm

What amazes me the most is that it's not exactly rocket science to load up a syringe with drugs and give the guy his due. Is it that hard to find a drug that works? Has there ever been any research on what it takes to kill? This stuff is "drugs101" and even most people here knows that a mess of sodium pentathol turns off the light switch for good.

Heck, you could fill the syringe with battery acid, mercury, or even Hoppes#9 and it would work. A 32 oz. ball peen hammer wielded by an iron worker would do the job. I'm sure there plenty of notes left behind by Hitler's "doctors" what works. All of this confusion sure appears to done by design.

Just throw the guy head first into a industrial sized wood chipper. Force him to watch an entire basketball game or to read some of the posts right here would kill him.

Make him ride in Griff's truck with the windows up after Griff eats a big bowl of "truck stop chile".

-----6

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:03 pm

Sixgun wrote:Just throw the guy head first into a industrial sized wood chipper. Force him to watch an entire basketball game or to read some of the posts right here would kill him.

Make him ride in Griff's truck with the windows up after Griff eats a big bowl of "truck stop chile". -----6

I remember a case a few years ago where animal-rights fanatics put an injunction on some hatchery that had 250,000 male chicks that were contracted for but the buyer backed out. The hatchery was spending thousands a day on feed and no buyers, so elected to euthanize them. Fastest, lowest-cost way was a chipper-shredder, and let's face it -the few-day-old chicks really didn't have any particular 'anxiety' sitting in crates next to the chipper-shredder, as they didn't know what was going to happen (unlike a human death-row inmate). It was easier on them than 'gassing' (and far safer for personnel), and WAY easier on them than individually injecting something lethal, which were the two methods the animal-rights people insisted on.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:35 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sixgun wrote:Just throw the guy head first into a industrial sized wood chipper. Force him to watch an entire basketball game or to read some of the posts right here would kill him.

Make him ride in Griff's truck with the windows up after Griff eats a big bowl of "truck stop chile". -----6

I remember a case a few years ago where animal-rights fanatics put an injunction on some hatchery that had 250,000 male chicks that were contracted for but the buyer backed out. The hatchery was spending thousands a day on feed and no buyers, so elected to euthanize them. Fastest, lowest-cost way was a chipper-shredder, and let's face it -the few-day-old chicks really didn't have any particular 'anxiety' sitting in crates next to the chipper-shredder, as they didn't know what was going to happen (unlike a human death-row inmate). It was easier on them than 'gassing' (and far safer for personnel), and WAY easier on them than individually injecting something lethal, which were the two methods the animal-rights people insisted on.

Chick Filleted

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:59 pm

"Make him ride in Griff's truck with the windows up after Griff eats a big bowl of "truck stop chile".

-----6"

Now there's that cruel and unusual clause again ....

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:32 pm

Do it the way the Chinese do.

Bullet to the head. Charge the survivors for the bullet.

In trying so hard to become a Communist nation, surely the liberals couldn't object to emulating their heroes... ?

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:41 pm

I'm all in favor of capital punishment and think it's a shame Oz abandoned it, but I do tend to agree with the whingers when they say that 2 hours is cruel punishment.
The reason the government can't achiever the same quick results that a vet can is because the manufacturers of the "green dream" used by vets won't allow their product to be used for human execution. That said, I don't see why a pro capital punishment chemist couldn't come up with something lethal that would do the job properly.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:13 pm

Too much analysis.........
every year the cops confiscate a lot of heroin...........
give the condemned a massive overdose of heroin...........
he feels no pain, it results in death, there is no cost to the state for the drug.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:22 pm

Griff wrote:Did the perp suffer as long and painfully as their victim? If not... too bad, so sad... shoulda...

+1

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:29 pm

AJMD429 wrote: I don't think we should 'torture' or prolong suffering vindictively, but in the interest of being humane, I'm not sure the death row inmates are guaranteed to have an un-blemished body - just nothing "cruel and unusual".

This will change your mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of ... her_Newsom

I like FW's suggestion in the post on this topic in the Politics section.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =4&t=60115

Kill 'em the same way they killed their victims...

carbluesnake · Post by **carbluesnake** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:05 pm

All my sympathy and compassion was spent on the victims. None left for the perpetrator.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:25 pm

YK, I actually do agree with the "like their victims died" (unfortunately the use of the singular term 'victim' probably does not apply, since merely murdering one ordinary person does not seem to be a capital offense of these days).

Some American Indian tribes would hand over a convicted murderer to the next of kin, to execute, use as a slave, or do whatever else they saw fit.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:44 pm

Mescalero wrote:Too much analysis.........
every year the cops confiscate a lot of heroin...........
give the condemned a massive overdose of heroin...........
he feels no pain, it results in death, there is no cost to the state for the drug.

With a tab of LSD and this "short to watch on the way out: "Dante's Inferno; Abandon All Hope as a pre-mortem suggestion....

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:maybe God did it

I love your point of view!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:00 pm

Mescalero wrote:Too much analysis.........
every year the cops confiscate a lot of heroin...........
give the condemned a massive overdose of heroin...........
he feels no pain, it results in death, there is no cost to the state for the drug.

I thought the same thing ----------- i would think any anesthesiologist could cook up a potion to put a man to sleep while the final blow was administered with something else too

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:21 pm

Have you seen how much an anesthesiologist makes an hour? The family should be glad we don't have hangmen and firing squads. LEAD is aweful cheap in the comparison!

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:21 pm

I really don't get it. This guy felt no pain other than the IV needle stiicks. The drugs they use kills the person by first putting the person to sleep, and then stopping the breathing and heart, in that order.
No matter how long the killing drugs took he was not conscious!!!!
How is the cruel?

If you want to argue unusual, so what. He was unconscious

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:58 pm

Hillary/Pelosi sex tape. Yeah, that'd do it. Only for the most extreme offenders.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:16 am

I heard a bit on the radio about this. One of the comments was from one of the family members of the victims that witnessed it. She didn't sound too broken hearted that it took that long, and had some words regarding all the hulabaloo surrounding it

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:07 am

octagon wrote:Hillary/Pelosi sex tape. Yeah, that'd do it. Only for the most extreme offenders.

OMG. That mental picture is burned in now. I feel ill.................................................

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:39 am

Gobbler forge you are innocent, sorry, collateral damage I'm afraid.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:40 am

The drug combination that worked was forced to be changed a couple of years ago by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. One of the minerals gave you a heart attack, and that was just too much for them. It is a mineral that is cheap, readily available, will give you a heart attack if you don't have enough in you, will give you a heart attack if you have too much in you, and tastes terrible when put on food when you are trying to reduce the sodium in your diet. The people against the death penalty are not trying to make it more humane, but they are actually trying to make it worse so that they can make ordinary people horrified at the cruelty and suffering of the condemned murdering heroic piece of pond sludge who was just a misunderstood little boy.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:31 am

piller wrote:The drug combination that worked was forced to be changed a couple of years ago by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. One of the minerals gave you a heart attack, and that was just too much for them. It is a mineral that is cheap, readily available, will give you a heart attack if you don't have enough in you, will give you a heart attack if you have too much in you, and tastes terrible when put on food when you are trying to reduce the sodium in your diet. The people against the death penalty are not trying to make it more humane, but they are actually trying to make it worse so that they can make ordinary people horrified at the cruelty and suffering of the condemned murdering heroic piece of pond sludge who was just a misunderstood little boy.

That about sums it up....thanks for the education.

As for the drug in question, my guess its potassium. My sister-in-law almost died on Sunday and the docs said she had 3 times the potassium in her system and almost had a heart attack. My wife saved her life as her sister said she was OK, but my wife saw that look on animals before and called 911. Docs are still trying to save her kidneys. ----6

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:51 am

In the old and very efficient cocktail, the final ingredient was a large dose of potassium chloride to stop the heart and shut off electrical activity.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:01 pm

FWiedner wrote:Do it the way the Chinese do.

Bullet to the head. Charge the survivors for the bullet.

In trying so hard to become a Communist nation, surely the liberals couldn't object to emulating their heroes... ?

+1

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:25 pm

I don't see the need to rush things, I would be for it taking 2 or three days, stoned to death would be ok also.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:57 pm

harry wrote:I don't see the need to rush things, I would be for it taking 2 or three days, stoned to death would be ok also.

+1 or more.

My thought is put him in a dark, secluded, sound deadened room with no air flow and give him a diet of rice and water that will let him starve to death in 3-4months. Hopefully giving him time to regret his decisions, but mainly just to let him suffer thru it till the end. No guards to feed him, just a tube for the rice to go into a pan, and another for the water.

Mescy, love your thought, but that would be to easy for him. 3leg

barbarossa · Post by **barbarossa** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:18 pm

How about feeding them to the crocodiles at the zoo that way they would serve a purpose in death, croc food.This would also help the zoos keep the costs down.It may not be a painless death but it sure would be quick lol.

Tactical Lever · Post by **Tactical Lever** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:02 pm

Too easy a death. Some of these crimes are horrific, and maybe its not our place to recreate the torture meted out by the depraved animals that are being put down. On the other hand, capital punishment should not be an easy comfortable way out, that lets them sneer and give the finger right to the end. There are an increasing number of people who don't believe in an afterlife, both perpetrators and upstanding citizens.

It is our duty to make the witnesses see that it is an unpalatable way to go. While they say that there a good number of criminals who just don't take into account the consequences, I'm sure that a good number would think twice if they knew for sure that the end would be suitably unpleasant.

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:12 am

Y'all just don't understand - being Arizona, the headline should've read: "Wrestled gun from a guard and shot himself in the head", and some headlines do... Leave out the part that it took three shots.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:48 am

piller wrote:The drug combination that worked was forced to be changed a couple of years ago by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. One of the minerals gave you a heart attack, and that was just too much for them. It is a mineral that is cheap, readily available, will give you a heart attack if you don't have enough in you, will give you a heart attack if you have too much in you, and tastes terrible when put on food when you are trying to reduce the sodium in your diet. The people against the death penalty are not trying to make it more humane, but they are actually trying to make it worse so that they can make ordinary people horrified at the cruelty and suffering of the condemned murdering heroic piece of pond sludge who was just a misunderstood little boy.

Another one of their arguments is capital punishment isn't a deterrent.

Really!!!

There is no doubt in my mind, this one thing will never murder again.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:20 pm

Nate/Steve, I have never seen a dead man commit a murder. After the pond sludge is buried, it seems reasonable to me that they are deterred from committing another crime.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:00 pm

octagon wrote:Hillary/Pelosi sex tape. Yeah, that'd do it. Only for the most extreme offenders.

Except THAT certainly is cruel and unusual punishment!

Where is that barfing smiley when I need it?

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:17 am

From Al Jazeera:

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/show ... tions.html

I agree.