Firing off primers - NOT

[JohndeFresno]

I just had an unhappy experience that has now become part of what I call "acquired wisdom."

Handgun: A prized early model Colt Python .357 in excellent shape; to me, irreplaceable
Situation: Imperfect primed brass - actually, nickel
Remedy (from commonly used technique): Size the brass if not sized, fire off the primer in a safe direction
Result: Backed up primer, locking up the cylinder. Almost a trip to the gunsmith - lost precious time and money.

I finally managed to gently force the cylinder open.

I can't count the number of times I have read online that one can safely dispose of unfired primers by just firing them off. I used to, on the rare occasions that it was necessary, rather than remove them and try to use them again, due to the risk of damage by the extraction.

Never again. Is there another solution to disposing of primers safely? At one time I would soak them in mineral oil for a couple of weeks and then toss them. Then, it was posted here and elsewhere that this is no guarantee that they are rendered inert.

[AJMD429]

I do one of two things:

If I can fire the cartridge in a non-revolver, I will - never had any other type of action lock up due to backed-up primer (but I've done the same thing you did with a revolver ).

Or, I will de-prime it with my Lee Hand Press, outside. Never had one detonate, but may someday.

[earlmck]

I'd like to be helpful but I can't get a handle on the situation. "Imperfect primed brass" -- what is the imperfection? As in, what is so imperfect with either the brass or the primer that you can't just size, bell, load the brass if it is the brass that is imperfect? Or seat the primers a bit deeper if it is the primer seating that is imperfect? Or use a load requiring a magnum primer if you used "small rifle" primers (same as small pistol magnum)? Or.... ??

I've deprimed a fair number of cases of their live primers over the years (gently of course -- no banging around) and then reused the primers, which have never seemed any the worse for their experience. But if I had a bunch of such cases I'd be thinking of ways to just use them as-is.

And I can't see any reason to try to deactivate the primers unless they are mercuric and/or corrosive. Which would be a most unusual situation with 357 magnum.

[BrentD]

I have "deprimed" cases with live primers and had one go off. For that reason I really hate doing it and almost never do. If I was smarter, I never ever would do it again. But when I do, I wear welding gloves or something similar, eye protection, I put the case and deprimer in a box and turn my head the other way. Really, it isn't worth it.

When I have had a primer back up and block my breach block on a singleshot rifle, I have simply cocked the hammer and fired on the spent primer. The second blow will drive it back into the case. I suppose that is not possible in a Python, but if you could somehow strike the primer again, perhaps hitting the hammer with a deadblow hammer or piece of hard wood would do the trick if there is not some sort of lock out system.

[BigSky56]

In a revolver after firing take a wooden dowel run down the barrel and smack with a hammer it will reseat the primer in the case leaned that with the plastic & rubber bullets for target practice in the barn that I didnt want to drill out the flash hole. danny

[Grizz]

I chuck 'em in the fire. click, click, pop. Heh

Danny has the common sense solution.

[JohndeFresno]

Thank you, all.
Using a dowel to reset the primer - great idea!
Using a campfire to deactivate the primer(s), from a reasonable distance, is also a viable idea!
Since I only have revolvers to fire off any unused .357 or .38 primers, I could just save any unused primers for my, or my family's, next campout.

To answer the questions:
1) The imperfect cartridge:
I was using some cartridges that I had previously primed. The reloading process had been interrupted by some emergency; and the operation was summarily suspended, the primed nickel cases were placed in a cigar box (love those containers, they don't rattle). There was some elapsed time, and I somehow lost the note with the batch - I make notes for everything - that they were not sized. It is highly unusual for me to prime before I size a casing, but for some reason that is what happened.

I resumed this load, a vigorous urban self defense load approximating the old Secret Service .38 Special +P+ 100 gr. HP load (or "Treasury Load"). It expands impressively but does not penetrate as much as the more popular 125 gr. defensive type round. When fired in a .357 casing in a revolver of the same caliber, even with N-110, the pressures are safer. It is still a snappy load, however.

So I grabbed a primed casing, belled it and added powder. When I seated the bullet, I knew something was wrong by the feel. Then, the case was wrinkled due to it not being sized, first. I did run it through again - pulled the bullet, sized it, belled it and added the powder - but the hint of the wrinkle was there. Due to the pressure of the round and because I did not want to risk having the cartridge stick in the cylinder upon extraction (or worse), I deemed it an imperfect and unsafe round. So I pulled the bullet with an inertial bulet puller, which dumped out the powder as well, put it into the cylinder of my old duty .357 Python, and popped off the primer, which then backed out and locked the cylinder.

2) Concerns about an unused primer:
I live in the city. It is illegal to dump live primers in the city garbage. Beyond that, I would not want to be responsible for some kid, or even an adult losing an eye because they found the live primer at the dump and played with it. Stupid things happen. I don't want to be an enabler.

3) Depriming on a press:
So far, I have never had a primer pop while using a deprimer die (Lee Universal Deprimer). But I stand to the side and use eye protection as noted above, just to be safe. Yes, great advice.

4) Reusing the primers:
Earl, I don't have a problem reusing primers that have been pulled, for practice ammo. But this ammo is for self-defense*, and I would not want to risk it not performing as expected. I guess I could save a few pennies by saving the few extracted primers in a container marked with the brand, type, and notation "plinking only" or the like. But that seems to be a bit counterproductive.

* Please, guys, no lecture a la Mr. Ayoob on using factory ammo only. The mythical lawyer who would successfully make an example of a handloader in a civil case resulting from a defensive shooting scenario has never, ever surfaced in real life, after more than 20 years of this widely repeated mantra.

There you go with the background info. Thank you all, once again, for your posts!

JdeF

[Rusty]

Years ago I had a Python that locked up like that. I always liked my S&Ws better anyway so I just traded it off. Mine didn't lock up on an empty primed case it was a 140 gr HP. I lost confidence in the Colt just the same.

[cas]

You're not going to kill the primers with oil. Once they dry up enough they'll be live again.
(maybe not "good as new" factory fresh, but they will fire.)

[J35]

I just had an unhappy experience that has now become part of what I call "acquired wisdom."

Handgun: A prized early model Colt Python .357 in excellent shape; to me, irreplaceable
Situation: Imperfect primed brass - actually, nickel
Remedy (from commonly used technique): Size the brass if not sized, fire off the primer in a safe direction
Result: Backed up primer, locking up the cylinder. Almost a trip to the gunsmith - lost precious time and money.

I finally managed to gently force the cylinder open.

I can't count the number of times I have read online that one can safely dispose of unfired primers by just firing them off. I used to, on the rare occasions that it was necessary, rather than remove them and try to use them again, due to the risk of damage by the extraction.

Never again. Is there another solution to disposing of primers safely? At one time I would soak them in mineral oil for a couple of weeks and then toss them. Then, it was posted here and elsewhere that this is no guarantee that they are rendered inert.

Here is thread on primers, the sixth post might be a winner.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/vi ... forum_id=2


----------J

[OLBIKER]

W hy did`nt you just resize the cases with the primer pin out of the die???

[mikld]

Just run 'em through your size/decap die. Primers need a good sharp smack on the cup to squeeze/crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil to fire. I have run several (OK, I admit it, mebbe 100 OOPS!) cases, some 30-06 but mostly .44 Magnum through a size/decap die to remove primers. didn't 'slam" the cases through, just a normal, easy push. None went off. And I've reused most of them too.

FWIW; in my nearly 30 years of reloading I've had less than a half dozen primers go off when the case was not in a gun and that was using a Lee Loader in .44 Magnum (all other Lee Loaders were OK). Common horse sense?

[JohndeFresno]

W hy did`nt you just resize the cases with the primer pin out of the die???

Yes, Ol' Biker, I did. They were successfully loaded.

The one I had loaded and seated had already been damaged (wrinkled), however.

[JohndeFresno]

Just run 'em through your size/decap die. Primers need a good sharp smack on the cup to squeeze/crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil to fire. I have run several (OK, I admit it, mebbe 100 OOPS!) cases, some 30-06 but mostly .44 Magnum through a size/decap die to remove primers. didn't 'slam" the cases through, just a normal, easy push. None went off. And I've reused most of them too.

FWIW; in my nearly 30 years of reloading I've had less than a half dozen primers go off when the case was not in a gun and that was using a Lee Loader in .44 Magnum (all other Lee Loaders were OK). Common horse sense?

Mikld - since, as I said, these particular loads MUST reliable...
...are you then saying that some of your carefully decapped primers in fact failed when you tried to use them in another load?

[JohndeFresno]

Years ago I had a Python that locked up like that. I always liked my S&Ws better anyway so I just traded it off. Mine didn't lock up on an empty primed case it was a 140 gr HP. I lost confidence in the Colt just the same.

I guess the Python has tight tolerances. I have never had a problem with mine, and it is a joy to fire.

Earlier in my life, before forums like these were here to warn you against such practices, I ruined an otherwise reliable and sturdy S&W Highway Patrolman .357 by continuously snapping - slamming - the cylinder open to reload at the range. It finally jammed, no doubt due to a slightly bent crane, which is all it takes. Rather than go to a gunsmith, I sold it, in my huge ignorance about handgun mechanics at that time.

The good thing that came out of that is that I then found a one-owner pristine Python at a great price. I have enjoyed it even more for the past 40 years, and I have been told that it is the finest mass produced .357 ever made. I would never trade it.

[JohndeFresno]

Here is thread on primers, the sixth post might be a winner.
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/vi ... forum_id=2
----------J

Thanks, J35nut.

Marvel Mystery Oil to kill primers - maybe that is an easy remedy to avoid the problem of storing them for the campfire...
The test was apparently done with magnum primers.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/posti ... 1&p=684993#
I guess I will need to test this with one of my bolt gun calibers when time permits - unless this spurs somebody's interest for such a test now...

EDITED: Aha! Wal Mart website shows that it sells a small bottle for around 5 bucks, but of course there are postage and handling fees. If the local Wally World has it, I'll see what's what and post later.

UNLESS:
Somebody has some of this stuff around and has the time to test it on some non-magnum primers by soaking them for a few hours, letting them drain and dry, and then firing them in a rifle or other non-cylinder firearm, to round out the test results. That would give them Official Levergun Points* and the appreciation from the thousands of readers who eventually read this (hint, hint, typed at home with temporary disability from small home accident).

* Redeemable for a cup of coffee or two at a place where the owner frequents this site, I think.

[Griff]

Use your trusty .357 levergun to pop primers. No pesky recoil shield for backed out primers to drag on. Longer barrel reduces the noise... but don't hold the muzzle up to a light bulb.

[JohndeFresno]

Use your trusty .357 levergun to pop primers. No pesky recoil shield for backed out primers to drag on. Longer barrel reduces the noise... but don't hold the muzzle up to a light bulb.

Griff, that was a .30-30 and .45-70 levergun that you saw. I have no pistol caliber long guns, unfortunately.

Maybe I'll ask Doc (AJMD429) to write me another Rx, for a matching levergun in .357 or .44 Mag or .45 Colt. It worked for the .45 Colt, as you may recall. My dear wife sorta threw up her hands (we respect doctors a lot) and I got my cowboy gun.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=17443
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=28344

[Griff]

Maybe I'll ask Doc (AJMD429) to write me another Rx, for a matching levergun in .357 or .44 Mag or .45 Colt. It worked for the .45 Colt, as you may recall. My dear wife sorta threw up her hands (we respect doctors a lot) and I got my cowboy gun.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=17443
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=28344