1X scope question?

[Canuck Bob]

I have read some references to a specific technique for rapid close shooting involving 1X scopes. This type of optical use interests me. Does anyone know about this? I'm trying to understand a conventional tube scope as an optical peep sight.

There are references to 1X power not really being 1X and this is a bit confusing. I picture both eyes open with an optical effect of seeing in stereo with a reticle painted on the target.

I've considered red dots and reflex stuff like that but in the end the preference would be for a conventional scope setup like an old school hunting scope rig-up.

[765x53]

You are correct.
Looking through a 1 or even 1.5 power scope with both eyes open has the effect of seeing a cross-hair hanging in the air wherever you look.

[Mescalero]

This is the way I shoot my Car 15, Daewoo, 5.7MMJ, 6.5x55 Swede, etc.
Been doing it for years.............. IE.............. before it was cool.
Buffboy did it with his Daewoo also.
RIP Buffboy.

[Blaine]

Not to be smart, but, it's obvious which scope to look through. The extra eye that's open more than doubles your field of view, and restores nearly complete depth perception. I don't see this as an "up close" situation, but, hunting at a reasonable distances where you might not shoot open sights due to the range....

[MrMurphy]

Trijicon calls it the Bindon Aiming Concept, but the idea's been around a long time.

Works better at 4X or below.

[Mescalero]

Be advised,
you have to shoot.......... a lot........... but once you "get it " you will never go back........ and there is a certain satisfaction that you have gained a technique; that not many employ.

[AJMD429]

My 'Night Scouts' all use the '1x red-dot' system, and they are the fastest-shooting and most accurate 'night' firearms I've had occasion to try...

link > 'Night Scout' thread

[vancelw]

Trijicon calls it the Bindon Aiming Concept, but the idea's been around a long time.

Works better at 4X or below.

Yeah, I had to bit my tongue hard last year when the Trijicon rep and DSC Convention was telling me how they developed that technique. Been using it my whole life.

I recently purchased a 1.25-4 Leupold, a 1-4 Burris, a 2x Tru-glo red dot, and a 2.5 Burris scout scope. Got them all on my semi-auto carbines except for the 2.5 which is on my Guide Gun.

Very fast target acquisition.

The beauty is (especially with an illuminated reticle), if you forget to flip up you scope covers or get mud on the objective, it still works with both eyes open.

[Griff]

At my last match, I had to shoot at about 75 yards from behind a barricade... both left and right sides, without exposing the body. On the left side, I found that I just couldn't keep the right eye closed... couldn't keep the scope in line with the left eye... When I quit trying, and just looked thru the scope with both eyes open, the dot was right there... and when put on the target, a "ding" occurred! Shot the stage again after everyone else for no score and it worked like a champ!

I don't even shoot a shotgun with both eyes open... so was very surprised that this worked. While I'm right eye dominant, it's a minimal difference. Trying to line up irons with both eyes open is simply an exercise in futility... but the 1X scope is like a magnet on the target with both eyes open!

[Old Savage]

if you are looking through scope with you master eye should work. But people do not see the same though some do not seem to consider that.

[Canuck Bob]

I'm a lefty and just naturally learned to shoot with both eyes open. When I finally got a peep and it was like the answer to a question I didn't know to ask.

I think I'll eventually get a 1-4 or so and give this a try.

[Canuck Bob]

Googled the BAC technique and was amazed to learn that it works with magnification. The early idea seemed only workable with 1X.

I'll keep reading but would this work with my 2.5X Compact? Or maybe I'm doing this kinda naturally and didn't know it? I keep both eyes open but see the sight picture and the offside eye just seems to be not focused on or maybe not perceived is a better description. This is fascinating.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have an old Weaver 1X scope with a post. I shoot it with both eyes open just like I shoot ALL sighting systems. I even shoot bench rest (36X scopes) with both eyes open. That way you can see any changes in the wind flags while concentrating on the target. It takes a little training but is easy to do.

A true 1X scope will have 0 magnification. Like looking through a toilet paper tube with a cross hair in it. I prefer tube type red dot sights to 1X scopes these days. When the 1X scopes were introduced, red dot sights were still a thing of the future.

[Win94]

Thank you for starting this thread my fellow Canuck! I have a 1-3.5 compact on my 444 that I need to try this technique on. I did fine with it this past fall with the usual one eye closed but now u have me thinking.....

[Canuck Bob]

Win94, my moose rifle is a 444 owned since new in the 70s. I once rigged it with a 2.5X Leupold Compact and really liked the precision. I went back to the Williams Receiver sight as I really like how a lever hand carries. This is interesting though and time has altered me and my abilities.

This started as a response to a bolt action CZ and needing to scope it. Until recently I had not used a scope in decades. I kinda stubbornly or maybe snobishly undervalued optics. Well, there is some common sense in the saying, live and learn. As soon as breakup hits I'm going to get used to scopes again.

[7.62 Precision]

You can use a low-power scope on 1x in a similar way to a reflex sight. Even if it is not a true 1x (a lot of 1-?x optics are actually something like 1.1x to 1.6x at the lowest setting) the scope can be used quickly this way. I fans that up to 2.5x, I can use a scope pretty much as fast as a reflex sight. Once I get to 3x and above, it is a little slower.

There are some differences to consider between reflex sights and low-powerd scopes:

All quality reflex sights are low-paralax optics. (Some manufactures claim their sights are parallax-free - this is not true. They are designed so that the parallax is kept to a range in which it does not create an issue. So it would be more accurate to say that the shooter is unaffected by parallax, or that the sight is parallax free at normal engagement ranges.) Because of this, the shooter's head position is not important. This allows faster, more flexible shooting. This is why reflex (red dot) sights are most effective with an aperture of about 30mm. Small red dot sights require more precise head placement.

A scope is a totally different technology (this is why you can't compare an ACOG to an Aimpoint - they are completely different optics). A scope will generally have some parallax at any range. More expensive scopes are designed so that parallax can be largely nulled, but it is always a consideration. The cheek weld on the stock should be exactly consistent from shot to shot for best accuracy. So the scope restricts the placement of the head when shooting.
Also, if there is any magnification, it can confuse the eyes occasionally - sometimes it takes a second for the eyes to switch from the non-magnified view to the magnified one.
If the reticle is not illuminated, or the entire reticle is illuminated, it might not be as fast to pick up the POA as a reflex sight.

I ran a 2.5-10x IOR scope with the MP8 Dot reticle when deployed once. I found that for CQB I could engage targets as fast as others with Aimpoint M68 sights (faster on followup shots, since I had a 20" bull barrel - the rifle didn't move when I fired).

I prefer a reflex sight for CQB or anything I do not need magnification for. A magnifier can be used with a reflex sight, and that can work well to. I use Mepro M21s on almost everything that I have non-magnified optics on, and some of the reticles are designed specifically for being used with a magnifier - the Open X reticle, for example.

However, If I want the ability to have magnification, yet still want to be able to have a zero-magnification optic for close, fast work, I think that a low-power variable scope works very well and that would be my choice. With companies like IOR building true 1-8x scopes, and lots of 1-4x scopes on the market, there is the possibility for a lot of flexibility, really turning a rifle into a multi-use rifle.

[44shooter]

if you are looking through scope with you master eye should work. But people do not see the same though some do not seem to consider that.

Exactly, I can generally keep both eyes open with peeps, handgun sights, and scopes of very low magnification. Up the magnification, and my brain bounces between the two eyes and I often see down the left side of my barrel.

In my job, I perform quite a bit of microscopy. With a binocular microscope one should see one field of view, I'm told. Not me. I have to adjust the interpupillary distance so that my left eye is looking blindly to not see two overlapping fields. One eye open microscopy is too fatiguing to do for any significant length of time.

[cas]

Yes many "1x scopes" aren't truly 1x. The ones that are will usually make a bigger deal about being "true 1x" just for that reason. On a true 1x scope with daylight visible lighted reticle, it's no different than shooting an Aimpoint/Eotech ect. (and then there's the issue of "true daylight visible" also. ) I have one on my match rifle and it's very fast and very natural. Was also very expensive. lol

I shoot almost everything with both eyes open, irons through high magnification.

[MacEntyre]

When I posted a thread here about not being a scope user, and asking what scope to put on my BLR, there were some groans... but some nice folks explained the benefits of using a low magnification scope. Got 1-4x scope and I keep it on 1.25 or so... it is an incredibly fast acquisition sight. Although strongly left eye dominant, it works for me using my right eye as well. I like that a lot when in a deer stand that was set up by a right-hander, since I am an amphibious [sic] levergunner.

I had no idea that they gave it a name.