Is a .44 too big?

[Rusty]

I know people always say "use enough gun" but I'm wondering now just how much is enough. Over kill is no fun either.

Sorry no pictures, but yesterday I heard the dog barking outside and barking, and barking. I looked out and didn't see anything so I went back to my reading. When my son came in I told him to look and see what was bothering the dog. He came running back in and grabbed the first gun he came to, a .22 mag. I hadn't seen the 150# hog that was having a stand off with the dog. Jr. kept a tree between him and the hog that was preoccupied with the dog. When he came around the tree he fired once hitting the pig right behind the ear. The pig dropped with out the first twitch and that was the end of it.
After watching the whole story from start to finish it makes me wonder why I bother with a .44 at all? Wouldn't a .357 do just as well? How low can you go? I wonder just how small a rifle really is practical?

Any thoughts?

[meanc]

Well Rusty, tell your kid that's some excellent shooting.

And as has been stated many a time...."Shot placement is key"

BTW, I shot hog with a 44mag behind the ear once. The bullet hit the off- side shoulder bone, took a right turn, and exited just in front of the off-side rear leg.

The hog still managed to hobble about 20yds before it dropped.

[rjohns94]

.357 would be a nice hog rifle. I just ordered one from Steve Young (NKJ). Good for deer too. >44 is one of my favorites but i have now gone to both sides of it, .357 and .45 lc. Good luck with your choice.

[claybob86]

Well, it sounds like Jr. is a very fine shot and the .22 mag is entirely adequate for him! Personally, I like big bores just because they are more satisfying to shoot. But that's just me...

[Comal Forge]

My grandpa used to kill hogs with a .22 LR rimfire all the time - but they were domestic animals in a pen and the range was measured in feet.

A few weeks ago, a buddy of mine jumped a big sow right at dark on their deer lease in heavy brush, while carrying a .44 Mag Redhawk. He shot and hit the hog five times - the front left leg was gone, she had several holes through the body, etc. but was not dead - just taking deep ragged breaths so he put the last one in her head.

As Meanc said, shot placement is everything and in its absence, even a .44 will not do.

[AmBraCol]

How low can you go? I wonder just how small a rifle really is practical?

It would be interesting to know how many million hogs have been killed by a 22 LR. How's that for small? Still, shot placement is key. The hog was "at bay" so he could pick his shot. Sounds like he did a good job. I've killed hogs with a 22 LR revolver, but it would NOT be my first choice for hunting. The reason for a larger caliber is that it ups the chances of making a kill when a less than perfect shot offers itself. And too often a less than perfect shot results in a blood trail. A larger caliber that exits the animal offers a better blood trail than a dinky 22 in the side of the head will, as I witnessed years ago when a man I know pulled a stupid shot on a large hog - which we then had to chase with hounds 'til his son took it out using a 28 gauge with buckshot.

[Rusty]

I know about 22 LR's on the farm. We used to kill domestic hogs with them as well. The magnum does have a lot of penetration and such but it's really not quite enough in case of a slightly bad shot. I have quite a few .357's around so that might be the next logical choice.

Marlin or '92 clone?

[GANJIRO]

In a perfect world where every boar is at point blank range, stands still, and does not see you, and you are an excellent shot, then by all means the 22 magnum would be more than adequate... in a perfect world. My world has never been perfect so i've relied on my 44 mag Marlin to get me thru a pig these past 32 years with a hiccup, and every pig a one shot drop without exception. I'm happy with my 44 mag versus pigs.

[JReed]

Pass on my respect to your son for a darn fine shot. As others have said with a good well placed shot a 22lr will do the job.
For me I'll stick with my .45colts just so I have a bit more punch for pigs that dont know they are dead yet.

[2 dogs]

Try a full house 475 Linebaugh....the 44 dont seem so big after that....

[claybob86]

... i've relied on my 44 mag Marlin to get me thru a pig these past 32 years with a hiccup, and every pig a one shot drop without exception. I'm happy with my 44 mag versus pigs.

I'd guess that with a track record like that, the quality of your shooting just might be a factor, too!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I can remember back in the early 60's when I was young (wait-a-minute i'm still young) and still live at home. We lived in the counrty and there was no stock laws so there were lots of free ranging hog, wild true but many had ear marks for ownership. Anyway, one day while out with my dad we came up on a feller that had just run over one of those hogs. He was driving a fairly new Chevy Corvair the rear engine car that got Nadered with the VW. The right front wheel was caved back under the passenger side floorboard. The car's totaled, But that hog got up and ran off. Go figure.

Bottom line, it's not that imoprtant just how big it is, the thing that really matters is shot placement.

[gundownunder]

If you could always pick a nice spot under the ear to put the bullet into then anything would be big enough, but a big mud encased boar with nothing exposed to shoot at but his shoulder might just get a bit annoyed at a bloke who takes pot shots at him with a rabbit gun and might shove a tusk up yer backside.

[Ysabel Kid]

Rusty -

Pat your son on the back for us. How old is he?

A well-placed .22 can kill almost anything on the planet - eventually. Therein lies the problem. The margin of error becomes smaller and smaller as the animal becomes larger and larger. The hog was confronting the dog, and your son wasn't seen. No afront to him - it enabled him to take his time and place his shot exactly where it would do the most good. Often one is not afforded that luxury.

Given that, the larger the caliber, in general, the larger your margin of error. This is not an indefinite curve, but is especially true with pistol-caliber cartridges. If one can handle a .44 or a .45, the simply physics of bullet weight, metplate, energy, etc. all favor you over a .357, or smaller. Again, not that these won't do, but the margin of error is smaller.

I'm talking about the situation your son was in, or another defense-like scenario. If you are talking hunting, you need to balance performance with meat-destruction.

[505stevec]

I have this picture of your son maybe 10 or 12. Quick thinking and brought up with proper respect for guns. A very responsible lad who know when to protect the homefront. Is that it? please tell me it is there arent many of these kids out there. Tell him great job!!! Oh, and IMO the .22 is great until it aint. "Bring enough gun"

[Pete44ru]

That boy'll do, to ride the river with, shootin' like that !

[Sarge]

I think if you follow the axiom "Use Enough Gun" you also have to accept the fact that you won't always be able to predict what will be "just enough" on any given day. Consequently there will be times when you have more than you need, for the given application.

"Better to have it and not need it, than the other way around."

[txpete]

shot placement is everything your son did good .
pete

[Old Ironsights]

Nothing is ever "too big" (unless you mean to use a .50bmg against squirrels...) if you reload. (I loved my .454 FA...)

However, I chose a .357 rifle over .45/.454 mainly because I have a CCW .357 and don't know of a good .45lc that is in the SP101 size class. (There is a Taurus .45 Colt that comes close... but I don't own one...)

I will agree that .357, even loaded to optimal rifle specs is NOT as "good" a round as .454/hot .45, but it is "good enough".

[JerryB]

Rusty you tought that boy good. I think you need to go out and find a good Rossi '92 .357 and put that by the back door. I have one and my grandson has the Marlin 1894 .357. I think he is the same age as your son, 19 isn't he?

[Rusty]

Right Jerry, he is 19.


Jerry know how we do it down here fellows. When I was growing up all the hog hunters I knew used dogs and Ruger single sixes with the magnum cylinder. We have one fellow at our church that has caught 137 hogs off of one piece of property this year so far at the request of the owner. He has yet to use a firearm.

If I were going out hunting without dogs I don't know that I would choose a .22 mag as my first choice, but quite frankly I was amazed at the effect standing there as I was with a bird's eye view on the back porch.

[S.B.]

Looks to me like the .22 mag. is what was called for here? Excellent marksmanship, on your son's part.

[AmBraCol]

Right Jerry, he is 19.


Jerry know how we do it down here fellows. When I was growing up all the hog hunters I knew used dogs and Ruger single sixes with the magnum cylinder. We have one fellow at our church that has caught 137 hogs off of one piece of property this year so far at the request of the owner. He has yet to use a firearm.

If I were going out hunting without dogs I don't know that I would choose a .22 mag as my first choice, but quite frankly I was amazed at the effect standing there as I was with a bird's eye view on the back porch.

A friend of mine swore by CCI Minimag 22 LR solids for water buffalo and jaguar. It wouldn't be my first choice, but he claimed it worked far better than 38 spl RNL which was his other option.

[BAGTIC]

NATE,

How many foot pounds of energy do you think that VW had?

[GANJIRO]

... i've relied on my 44 mag Marlin to get me thru a pig these past 32 years without a hiccup, and every pig a one shot drop without exception. I'm happy with my 44 mag versus pigs.

I'd guess that with a track record like that, the quality of your shooting just might be a factor, too!

Thank you, but somehow I don't think my score would be so good if I was shooting a lesser gun, especially a 22 rimfire.

GREAT shooting on Rusty's son's part though taking nothing away from him.

[Komrowski]

Much of the fun is in the bang! The 22lr is one of the bet white tail deer guns there is. Ask any poacher, thats what they use, spot them and a small crack later dead deer. No right I know but never the less deadly. I don't poacher so i use a 338 win mag because i don't like to look for them!

[AJMD429]

NATE,

How many foot pounds of energy do you think that VW had?

I think I read somewhere that the big triple cannons on the old WWII destroyers lobbed a bullet that weighed about what a WV does - don't know the muzzle velocity though...!

I'd rather ask a 44 Magnum to do what a 22 Magnum could do, than the other way around. You can always use a 'cat sneeze' load if you know your target is calm and so forth, but keep the ones in the magazine hotties so if you need lead fast and furious, it's there. If you don't need that power, you may have the luxury of slipping in that light load just to save powder or make less noise/mess.

...and who SAYS a 50 BMG wouldn't work on squirrels? A friend says his .416 Rigsby worked fine on a stray cat - it even field dressed it for him!

[m.wun]

I agree with most here.Any bullet heavy for cal. will drop em with a
good shot.I shot a feral hog at 10 yards, facing me between the eyes
with a 7mm mag.The 150 gr.slug never exited .It blew up inside him
only 1-2 feet in.That pig was only 70 lbs. A .44 or such I think would
of pennd. alot deeper. Turns out the pig had blu eyes..
One blu one way. and One blu the other!!!!!

[Bis]

One of our customers put 6 rounds from a 243 into a ferral hog at 100 yards and it just walked off. I would go with the thought bigger is better, give me a 44 mag or a 45-70.

BTW your son did a great job.

[jd45]

meanc, I'll bet that porker, while he may have been able to run 20yds or so, wasn't in any condition to do any harm to anything after receiving that chunk of lead from you, was he? jd45

[JReed]

NATE,

How many foot pounds of energy do you think that VW had?

I think I read somewhere that the big triple cannons on the old WWII destroyers lobbed a bullet that weighed about what a WV does - don't know the muzzle velocity though...!

I dont know what the MV was either but they fired those thing something like 12miles. OUCH!

[Gryphon Black]

Yeah, depends on what you plan to do with it, as whether it's enough or too much or what.
But the one thing not yet mentioned is controllability by the shooter. If it knocks you around when you shoot it, it's probably too much. If nobody would think to hunt your given animal with it, it's probably too little.
And reloading does let you choose the power. I have a pipsqueak load worked up for my .45 colt rifle for backyard fun, but in case I need it, I have a hot running thumper that'll out thump most factory .44 loads. That being said, I have learned a great respect for my ladywife's chosen round for all her pistols and rifle, .357 magnum. That chambering can be highly useful and freindly and deadly for all but the biggest, especially in a rifle. Rather sounds like the kind of thing you might be thinking of, so pick up an 18 inch Marlin 1894c in .357 and try it out. Or maybe a longer cowboy model, if yer into length. I bet you keep it with a smile!

Gryphon

[gak]

I can remember back in the early 60's when I was young (wait-a-minute i'm still young) and still live at home. We lived in the counrty and there was no stock laws so there were lots of free ranging hog, wild true but many had ear marks for ownership. Anyway, one day while out with my dad we came up on a feller that had just run over one of those hogs. He was driving a fairly new Chevy Corvair the rear engine car that got Nadered with the VW. The right front wheel was caved back under the passenger side floorboard. The car's totaled, But that hog got up and ran off. Go figure.

Bottom line, it's not that imoprtant just how big it is, the thing that really matters is shot placement.

Hey Nate, I resemble that! Big Corvair nut from way back--over the years probably had 6 of 'em back in the day (70s-80s and the family had brand new 62, 64 and 66 Vairs). Like most cars back then (60s) the Corvair had some pretty stout sheet metal and normally would've done one of those hogs in without too much trauma to the car if it hit it right!

[BAGTIC]

I think I read somewhere that the big triple cannons on the old WWII destroyers lobbed a bullet that weighed about what a WV does - don't know the muzzle velocity though...!quote]


Destroyers never have triple 'cannons' (guns). Only Battleships and Cruisers had thriple mounts.

[BAGTIC]

One of our customers put 6 rounds from a 243 into a ferral hog at 100 yards and it just walked off. I would go with the thought bigger is better, give me a 44 mag or a 45-70.

An acquaintance of mine once shot a little 100 pound blacktail deer seven times with a 7mm Magmum before bagging it. I suppose that means a 7mm Magum isn't big enough either.

[t.r.]

Back in 2002, the drought conditions in NW part of the state were so bad that Ranchers offered very low cost buffalo hunts. After all, you can't just load up bison and haul them to greener pastures. Fence cost to keep buffalo in costs about $12,000. per linear mile. YIKES!



I selected a medium sized cow and did a long sneak to get within easy shooting distance. At approx. 80 yards, my .308 barked once and the huge animal folded up right there. The bullet struck just below the ear from broadside and caused intstant death.

I read in a book that 375 H & H MAG is minimum for shooting North American bison. Good thing the animal didn't read the book. Bison meat is quite delicious; we ate well for a long time.

Shot placement should never be taken lightly.

Good hunting to you.
TR

[Jayhawker]

I think I read somewhere that the big triple cannons on the old WWII destroyers lobbed a bullet that weighed about what a WV does - don't know the muzzle velocity though...!quote]


Destroyers never have triple 'cannons' (guns). Only Battleships and Cruisers had thriple mounts.

The battleship's 14" guns had a muzzle velocity of about 2,600 fps for a 1,500 lb AP shell. The HE 1,375 lb shell would go about 2,730 fps for a range of about 18,000 yards. They had a problem with a lot muzzle flash as I remember.