QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
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- Advanced Levergunner
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QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
This issue has come up again. As I start loading Barnes bullets, I notice that QuickLoad's information is constantly and substantially wrong, giving overpressure warnings due to their exaggerated lengths of the Barnes bullets. And yes - I'm entering the precise nomenclature, e.g. the Barnes XPB or TSX bullets, not the Barnes "Originals." Reiterating that I am a huge QuickLoad fan, I must nevertheless point out a huge flaw with much of its packaged data.
I recall a similar situation with a cast load that Griff or Grizz asked about, in which his stats did not match up with the velocity that QL produced. I just entered the bullet from the tables and expected the length to be correct. Possibly, that bullet length was the culprit.
So... after extensive use and experimentation with QuickLoad:
1) If the bullet length and other critical factors match up with what you are actually using, the QuickLoad computing engine is marvelously close to accurate for muzzle velocity and other factors;
2) BUT - NEVER take QuickLoad's bullet tables for granted. They are good for an approximation as has been said before. But you are working with a full deck ONLY if you actually measure the exact bullet that you are loading. You can pull it up on the QuickLoad tables, but you must mic or "caliper" the bullet length, diameter, and COAL (aka COL - Cartridge Overall Length) settings used.
3) All QuickLoad tables can be edited. When you note discrepancies in the bullet length (especially), you can edit it from the QuickLoad program interface without resorting to editing the text tables. This is much safer, anyway, since you can inadvertently corrupt the text tables unless you really know what you are doing.
IN FACT, SHOWN ABOVE AND BELOW IS A CORRECTED BULLET CONFIGURATION FOR THE ROUND SHOWN, based upon my measurement of the actual bullet. I will change it again if the loaded COAL is different, depending upon where the crimp is found.
As you would expect with good professional software, any changes you make are reflected in the other data, such as how deeply the bullet is seated within the case, after you edit the "Bullet Length" and "Cartridge Length" (COAL) data.
I recall a similar situation with a cast load that Griff or Grizz asked about, in which his stats did not match up with the velocity that QL produced. I just entered the bullet from the tables and expected the length to be correct. Possibly, that bullet length was the culprit.
So... after extensive use and experimentation with QuickLoad:
1) If the bullet length and other critical factors match up with what you are actually using, the QuickLoad computing engine is marvelously close to accurate for muzzle velocity and other factors;
2) BUT - NEVER take QuickLoad's bullet tables for granted. They are good for an approximation as has been said before. But you are working with a full deck ONLY if you actually measure the exact bullet that you are loading. You can pull it up on the QuickLoad tables, but you must mic or "caliper" the bullet length, diameter, and COAL (aka COL - Cartridge Overall Length) settings used.
3) All QuickLoad tables can be edited. When you note discrepancies in the bullet length (especially), you can edit it from the QuickLoad program interface without resorting to editing the text tables. This is much safer, anyway, since you can inadvertently corrupt the text tables unless you really know what you are doing.
IN FACT, SHOWN ABOVE AND BELOW IS A CORRECTED BULLET CONFIGURATION FOR THE ROUND SHOWN, based upon my measurement of the actual bullet. I will change it again if the loaded COAL is different, depending upon where the crimp is found.
As you would expect with good professional software, any changes you make are reflected in the other data, such as how deeply the bullet is seated within the case, after you edit the "Bullet Length" and "Cartridge Length" (COAL) data.
- Rimfire McNutjob
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
I also have run into several instances where QuickLoad had the wrong length for a common bullet. I'm not sure where they get their data but I always measure and adjust the database just like you did. This is one of the reasons that I loathe doing quick simulations for people online. I feel like I can't really trust the internal tables as to bullet length ... which is so critical to initial case volume and then peak pressures when the simulation runs. If they measure a bullet for me, then I feel much better about it.
Still, it's worth the money and as you said, can be corrected by measuring yourself.
Still, it's worth the money and as you said, can be corrected by measuring yourself.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
- Sixgun
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
You scientific guys leave me scratching my head as its all over my head. I've loaded for a lot of cartridges that no info is available, especially back in the seventies to the nineties time period. I just look at the rifle/revolver, determine its age and capabilities, and start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..................and go to town. Don't know why, but I'm still here.....and so are the guns. ---------6
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
" start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..."Sixgun wrote:You scientific guys leave me scratching my head as its all over my head. I've loaded for a lot of cartridges that no info is available, especially back in the seventies to the nineties time period. I just look at the rifle/revolver, determine its age and capabilities, and start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..................and go to town. Don't know why, but I'm still here.....and so are the guns. ---------6
The Lord must really have a plan for you here! If I'm ever caught in an electric storm, I'm looking for you so that I can stand next to ya!
- earlmck
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
We're glad you're still here, 6 And most of us old ...uh... boys have done similar. But be honest, you didn't pull a load totally out of you behind... you had some other cartridge in mind with a little less case capacity and maybe used a top load from the smaller cartridge as a beginning load in the larger. Or some such estimationSixgun wrote:I just look at the rifle/revolver, determine its age and capabilities, and start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..................and go to town. Don't know why, but I'm still here.....and so are the guns. ---------6
QuickLoad does the same thing but carries the guesses out to more decimal places.
I remember one of my early phases in those "good old days" when I had this brainstorm -- "How 'bout I get a primer manufacturer to make a bunch of primers up in an oversize primer cup. That way us "careful experimenters" won't have to throw the brass away when the primer pockets get shot loose"
Yep, I actually had that great idea for making my first million and then got diverted (military service, I seem to remember) and didn't follow through.
Some of us "geniuses" needed QuickLoad a looong time ago!
And that's a very timely reminder, John. More folks using QuickLoad all the time. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if you kinda' reminded us at least once a year. Especially with small cartridges and the straight-wall cases, that little length error can make a Huge difference in pressure.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
- Griff
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
No! Don't do that, if you can't stand RIGHT where he's standing, don't get withink five states of him... he'll be spared, and you'll get zapped!JohndeFresno wrote:" start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..."Sixgun wrote:You scientific guys leave me scratching my head as its all over my head. I've loaded for a lot of cartridges that no info is available, especially back in the seventies to the nineties time period. I just look at the rifle/revolver, determine its age and capabilities, and start dumping Unique, 2400, Bullseye, 4895, or 5744 that I think is a good starting load..................and go to town. Don't know why, but I'm still here.....and so are the guns. ---------6
The Lord must really have a plan for you here! If I'm ever caught in an electric storm, I'm looking for you so that I can stand next to ya!
But, I too, think he mis-remembers his experimentin'! I'll bet dollars to donuts that he used a scale, funnel and some known factors before divining how much dumping was needed!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
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GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
I have a reloading manual and have been reloading ammunition for 35+ years. I can not imagine spending $158.00 for PC software that frankly seems to be a bit dated, and offers little, IMHO. Seems a bit over the top to me, but if folks find it useful, power to them!
I will totter off to my cave now.... grunting as I go!
I will totter off to my cave now.... grunting as I go!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Vet!
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COMNAVFORV, Vietnam 68-70
NRA Life, SASS Life, Banjo picking done cheap!
Quyana cekneq, Neva
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
Grizzly Adams wrote:I have a reloading manual and have been reloading ammunition for 35+ years. I can not imagine spending $158.00 for PC software that frankly seems to be a bit dated, and offers little...
But... "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious!"
- Sixgun
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
Of course! I may sound stupid, but I aint. Gotta remember, I have loaded for most all cartridges and my experience tells me in a New York minute what works and what don't. No brag, but I know the burn rates of most any powder in my little pea brain.
But, I too, think he mis-remembers his experimentin'! I'll bet dollars to donuts that he used a scale, funnel and some known factors before divining how much dumping was needed!
At matches, I can tell a guy how many turns or clicks on his rear sight to hit something
at different distances just by asking him the weight of his bullet and the velocity.
Yea, I did blow up a nice 1886 but it was not the fault of my ammo. ----6
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Re: QuickLoad: Measure those bullets! LAST entry (Perhaps)
And there you go! You see, I CAN'T remember all that stuff, and have only been reloading about 11 or 12 years. And I'm getting OLDER.Sixgun wrote:...Gotta remember, I have loaded for most all cartridges and my experience tells me in a New York minute what works and what don't....
That is why QuickLoad is such a terrific aid for those who know their way around 'puters.
Nutz, I have trouble remembering where the john is in the morning! So QL saves me a lot of trouble and speeds up the startup load predictions for several calibers, barrel lengths, powders and so on - at a glance.
By the way, can anybody tell me what forum I'm on? And where the blazes is Fresno??