Tell me about my "new" rossi

[mark08]

I picked up a little Rossi R92 src 20" barrell 357 Wed. Seemed like a good one, looked like new. So i bought it. On the way home i stopped by the farm and shot it. Took some doing but i finally got it shooting dead on at 60 ft. with the rear sight wedge all the way up. Now I believe this little bugger not to be new but to be a late 70's or early 80's . Can someone tell me the approx age and how to fix the sights so I can sight in at 100 yards or more or even 50 yds. It is stamped, Amadeo Rossi, mod 92 src, made in Brazil, imported by Interarms of Alexander, Va. has a Ser# K 023xxx. Safety is "hammer partly cocked". The rear sight is riveted on. the front sight is ??? to the barrel. It has a smooth action but is stiff. trigger pull is 5#. I ran a 100 rounds though it and with the exception of the sight problem it ran good. Maybe I just need a bigger wedgie!!! Any help you can give will be appreciated. Thanks

[Hobie]

The "wedgie" is properly called an "elevator" or "sight elevator". Depending on the ammunition you used such a problem with the gun not shooting to the sights, usually too high, is common. This has been addressed several times here, a couple of those very recently. IF you had to raise your rear sight to raise your point of impact enough then you would have to lower your front sight to adjust it. Best to settle on your ammo first and go slow in the removal of metal 'cause it is darn difficult to put it back once you've taken it off. Move the rear sight to the middle of the elevator before doing so to give yourself the maximum adjustable range.

[cshold]

*

[Pete44ru]

I picked up a little Rossi R92 src 20" barrell 357 Wed. Seemed like a good one, looked like new. So i bought it. On the way home i stopped by the farm and shot it. Took some doing but i finally got it shooting dead on at 60 ft. with the rear sight wedge all the way up. Now I believe this little bugger not to be new but to be a late 70's or early 80's . Can someone tell me the approx age and how to fix the sights so I can sight in at 100 yards or more or even 50 yds. It is stamped, Amadeo Rossi, mod 92 src, made in Brazil, imported by Interarms of Alexander, Va. has a Ser# K 023xxx. Safety is "hammer partly cocked". The rear sight is riveted on. the front sight is ??? to the barrel. It has a smooth action but is stiff. trigger pull is 5#. I ran a 100 rounds though it and with the exception of the sight problem it ran good. Maybe I just need a bigger wedgie!!! Any help you can give will be appreciated. Thanks

Welcome to our part of the Web, Mark ! I hope you'll like it here........

Both the front & rear sight blades should reside in a barrel dovetail, and can be driven out toward the loading gate side & replaced in the opposite direction; but it sounds like your front sight blade is too high.


However, I wouldn't start changing things based on a 60 foot zero - If you zero the rifle @ 25yds (75ft), the boolits will 1st pass the line-of-sight upward (close-range zero) @ 25yds, then pass it again on the way back down (2nd zero) @ about 90-100yds.

I would suggest shooting those 25/100 yard targets with the rear sight elevator in the mid position at first, to discover how much sight correction's needed.

Once the rifle's targeted @ 100yds, the difference between the POA & the POI can be measured & translated/calculated into the correct height front sight needed.

Only after that can/should the rear sight elevator be used for a final zero with a particular load.



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[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Hi Mark, Welcome to the fire.

I picked up a little Rossi R92 src 20" barrell 357 Wed. Seemed like a good one, looked like new. So i bought it. On the way home i stopped by the farm and shot it. Took some doing but i finally got it shooting dead on at 60 ft. with the rear sight wedge all the way up. Now I believe this little bugger not to be new but to be a late 70's or early 80's . Can someone tell me the approx age and how to fix the sights so I can sight in at 100 yards or more or even 50 yds. It is stamped, Amadeo Rossi, mod 92 src, made in Brazil, imported by Interarms of Alexander, Va. has a Ser# K 023xxx. Safety is "hammer partly cocked". The rear sight is riveted on. the front sight is ??? to the barrel. It has a smooth action but is stiff. trigger pull is 5#. I ran a 100 rounds though it and with the exception of the sight problem it ran good. Maybe I just need a bigger wedgie!!! Any help you can give will be appreciated. Thanks

Welcome to our part of the Web, Mark ! I hope you'll like it here........

Both the front & rear sight blades should reside in a barrel dovetail, and can be driven out toward the loading gate side & replaced in the opposite direction; but it sounds like your front sight blade is too high.


However, I wouldn't start changing things based on a 60 foot zero - If you zero the rifle @ 25yds (75ft), the boolits will 1st pass the line-of-sight upward (close-range zero) @ 25yds, then pass it again on the way back down (2nd zero) @ about 90-100yds.

I would suggest shooting those 25/100 yard targets with the rear sight elevator in the mid position at first, to discover how much sight correction's needed.

Once the rifle's targeted @ 100yds, the difference between the POA & the POI can be measured & translated/calculated into the correct height front sight needed.

Only after that can/should the rear sight elevator be used for a final zero with a particular load.



.

Pete,
It sounds like he has one of the older InterArms imported Rossi 92's. The rear is in a non standard .375" base but about .400" So, any of the currently available rears just fall through. Also, the front is integral with the front barrel band. Many of those were too high and if you filed them down there isn't much blade left if any at all.

I still get quite a few of these older guns for action work and sight upgrades. I use the original parts to build on, to get a setup much like this.

[AJMD429]

1. Welcome...!

2. What Hobie said.

3. What Pege44ru said.

4. What Nate Kiowa Jones said.

I'd pick a load that GROUPS well and then shoot it at a variety of distances. The easiest 'math' is to measure the front-to-rear-blade sight distance, then shoot at one hundred times that distance (in inches). So if they are 23" apart, shoot at 2,300" or just shy of 192 ft. Then to move the impact of your bullets a given amount, you simply move (or file) your sights by 1/100th that amount. Say you're grouping 14" low - then you need to raise your rear sight by 0.14" or lower your front by 0.14" or some combination of the two.

You also might really want to consider putting a compact receiver sight on it like the Williams FP...here's one on my Marlin 1894...


...and the same model (Williams FP-94) on a Rossi, showing the left side...


It would give you both a longer sight-radius for more precision, plus is easily and repeatably adjusted for various loads and ranges. Most folks put the aperture in for 'target' work or sighting-in, but remove it for a faster and brighter 'ghost-ring' sight picture for hunting or farmstead use.

Here's a 'how-to' on that topic - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25689

Here's a thread on many other sight options I put together a few years ago, as well (ninth post down in the thread I think):

Link = leverguns thread on aperture sights

[mark08]

Hey guys, thanks for all this info. I think Steve nailed it with it being an early Interarms import. After looking around the web I would guess the ser # to be about 1980. Tomorrow I will go an get some new ammo to test for the pattern. then try to zero at about 100 yards. I understand about filing metal away. I think that is called make D... sure before you file. What ammo do you suggest. This neat rifle is to be my truck/tractor coyote/groundhog/varmint gun. Someone gave legs to my Winchester 94 30-30. So starting over after having had that one for almost 60 years. Boy do I like the feel of this Rossi but I need to be able to hit the side of a barn. Again Thanks Guys . Maybe the grand son will help post pics of this thing. I am starting to think someone bought it new and could not hit anything with it and put it and forgot it. Then sold it at a garage sale. Again thanks. I have enjoyed today reading posts on this forum. I have learned so much. Wish I had known about Ya'll sooner.

[Tycer]

Shoot it at 25/100. Order the DVD and Ejector Spring at http://www.stevesguns.com or send it to Steve and make it run like an original hand-fitted Winchester 1892 like John Moses Browning intended. You'll likely love that gun, but they take a bit of fitting to run like they are supposed to. Sounds like you've got mechanical ability and it don't take much to follow the directions on the DVD to slick it up yourself. I've got one Hagler did for me following the DVD, one I did, and my buddy Lonnie has one Steve slicked up. The one Steve did most closely matches my 1913 1892 but the ones Hagler and I did are a close second.

[Tycer]

Regarding ammo. Your choice really, whatever groups to your satisfaction. 4" hundred yard groups should be easy peasy with barrel sights and 2" groups are not surprising with the nut behind the buttplate doing his part and an ammo the gun likes.
For general purpose, the 158 grain offerings do well from bunnies to deer. The stout 180s loaded to SAAMI top pressures really shine in a rifle and will take most game in the US. If you handload, the 180s in a cast bullet over a tiny pinch of Bullseye in a 38 case are very quiet and will dispatch much without waking the family.

[Griff]

I picked up a little Rossi R92 src 20" barrell 357 Wed. Seemed like a good one, looked like new. So i bought it. On the way home i stopped by the farm and shot it. Took some doing but i finally got it shooting dead on at 60 ft. with the rear sight wedge all the way up. Now I believe this little bugger not to be new but to be a late 70's or early 80's . Can someone tell me the approx age and how to fix the sights so I can sight in at 100 yards or more or even 50 yds. It is stamped, Amadeo Rossi, mod 92 src, made in Brazil, imported by Interarms of Alexander, Va. has a Ser# K 023xxx. Safety is "hammer partly cocked". The rear sight is riveted on. the front sight is ??? to the barrel. It has a smooth action but is stiff. trigger pull is 5#. I ran a 100 rounds though it and with the exception of the sight problem it ran good. Maybe I just need a bigger wedgie!!! Any help you can give will be appreciated. Thanks

I have two Rossi SRC '92s, both with K prefix serial numbers, bought 'em new in the '80s. K04XXXX in 1986 and K06XXXX in 1991. So roughly, early to mid '80s. Both marked the same.

It's called a "½ cock safety" or loading notch.

The rear sight is actually in a dovetail... just riveted to the dovetail insert if I remember correct...

As for your sights... sounds like it's sighted in for right at 120-125 yards!

trajectory-357Mag.JPG

Although, someone may have replaced the elevator, thinking the factory one was too tall. Here's a pic of the factory one:

Not the best of pics, but... you can get the idea.

[mark08]

Well It is raining! So no shooting today for me. I stopped at W World & picked up a box of Remington 38 spc 130 grain. that was all they had in a flat nose. Griff thanks for that chart. I see its for 357 but 38 should be about the same??? just down size, right? 10% maybe? Ya'll are right, the rear sight is dovetailed and Steve the dovetail is .390" by my yard stick. That sound right to you? The front sight is part of the barrel ring. I never knew shooting was soooo complex. If I understand right; a bullet moves upward then down in an arc. So a bullet could be on target at 25 yards and then again at 90-100 yards with the same sight setting? So when i used the barn hallway length (60') to zero in i picked a distance most difficult to sight this gun!! It seemed to shoot about 16" low at 60' so i kept raising the rear sight. What i need to do now is set up a target at 25yds. Set elevator to center. Then see how low it shoots. Adjust sights to zero poa and poi. Then at 100 yds I should be about on target. If nor fine tune. How much will a bullet climb??? I just thought they dropped like Newton's apple. I did go to stevesgunz.com and found the dvd and spring kit. will be a while before i get them. Steve is closed to move to better grounds. Be back soon. Good luck moving buddy. Yes Griff there is a concern with a 1/2 cocked nut behind the butt plate.

I need all the help I can get THANKS YA'LL

[Pete44ru]

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[Griff]

Yes, the Rossis from that period used a larger dovetail. Folks have made a shim to take up the extra room over a .375 (3/8") soght. Then again, it shouldn't that great a chore to find a shorter elevator.

[Pete44ru]

.

FWIW, I've had a few rifles that zeroed sans the rear sight step elevator - IOW, the rear sight blade rested directly on the bbl.




.

[mark08]

Ya'll are incredible. Today i shot as you directed. 16" between sights x 100" = 133.33 feet. Put 10 rounds at 18" below bulls eye. this with the rear sight elevator set at step #3 of 6 (.300). Moved elevator setting up to step #6 (.360). 10 shots 6" below bulls eye. I had two groups of 2" with one exception that went 5" to the left but on same horiz. line as the center of group. Except for that one shot all were less then 1" off center vertical line (11 on the line).
So based on this my rear sight height should be approx .480. Right? That's more than my max. height adjustment. Went to Brownell's site to look at sights. I found a formula to cal. rear sight height. Using their formula i came up with .360!!!! Of course one is using real data and one is a calculation. .390-.410 may be closer. What ya'll think.
While at Brownell's I saw a bulls eye sight. It looks like something that I would like. The old iron sights were hard on the old man, .080 wide front blade and a .100 wide sq bottom rear notch. This bullseye sight is 2 1/2" long. That Would give me another 1" F-R .Height adjusts from .338-.535 in .030 steps? . They lso have it in a semi-buck horn. Am i missing something here? The nominal 3/8 inch dovetail bothers me. Mine measures .390 but could it be a nominal .400? Maybe i should try to find a elevator that centers at about .400-430. My elevator (does not go to the top) is .120 thick adjusts .260.360 at .020 steps. Any ideas where to find one taller?

THANK YA""LL I would not have gotten to this point without your help. Now that they have put me out to pasture maybe i'll start shooting.
Again THANK YOU

[Tycer]

Shortening your front sight is the same as raising the rear.

For old eyes, there is nothing better than an aperture sight and a Merit aperture disk!

Lyman 66A or Williams 5D or FP. The FP is only necessary it you plan on needing to adjust your sights often. I prefer the Lyman as elevation is easily raised and then returned quickly. You'll need to drill and tap two small holes in the side of the receiver. Worth it IMO.

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Receiver-Pe ... =Lyman+66a

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Gun-Sigh ... illiams+fp

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Gun-Sigh ... B004Y6YHTG

http://www.meritcorporation.com

[AJMD429]

While at Brownell's I saw a [Marbles] Bullseye sight. It looks like something that I would like. The old iron sights were hard on the old man, .080 wide front blade and a .100 wide sq bottom rear notch. This bullseye sight is 2 1/2" long. That Would give me another 1" F-R .Height adjusts from .338-.535 in .030 steps? .

This thread has a few good pictures and comments on that very sight...

Link = leverguns thread on aperture sights

[Pete44ru]

.

With all due respect, IMHO the barrel-mounted Bullseye peep sight would be worse, given your eroding vision - even if it'd fit the rear bbl dovetail slot (which it won't).

The closer a peep sight's aperture is to the shooter's eye, the easier & faster it is to use/shoot - even faster with the aperture unscrewed to use the resulting 'ghost ring'.

I'm over 70, and have been successfully using a peep sight on my Rossi M92's, along with a bright (and small) fiber-optic front sight.

Your Rossi doesn't have any factory D/T prep, so a receiver peep sight will just screw on (drop-in) - but one can be attached via D/T (drill & tap) only 2 holes for one.

A Williams 5D-94, Williams FP-94, or a Lyman 66 will have their base side-mounted; the Williams 5D-94AE or Williams FP-94AE will have the base top-mounted, using the top of the action siderails (how I did my M92)

The 5D/FP 94AE peep sight proved to mount low enough to easily zero using the issue height front sight blade - to which YOU can apply a gob of orange sight paint (@ the tip).



If/when you mount a receiver peep sight, please remember to remove the old rear bbl open sight, for a clean sight picture.
The dovetail slot is best filled via altering the dovetail portion of the old rear bbl sight (below)






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[Nate Kiowa Jones]

.

With all due respect, IMHO the barrel-mounted Bullseye peep sight would be worse, given your eroding vision - even if it'd fit the rear bbl dovetail slot (which it won't).

The closer a peep sight's aperture is to the shooter's eye, the easier & faster it is to use/shoot - even faster with the aperture unscrewed to use the resulting 'ghost ring'.

I'm over 70, and have been successfully using a peep sight on my Rossi M92's, along with a bright (and small) fiber-optic front sight.

.....................................................


.

I couldn't agree more. I sell the BullsEye rear but I see it as a novelty. It's just too far from your eye to be an effective peep.

If you are like me and use reading glasses for anything up close but can see just fine at distance, in other words far sighted, you bet a tang or receiver peep will work well for you.
If you are not sure try this. Use a sharp pointed knife, a pin to make a hole in paper or even you thumb and index fingers to form a hole to look through. Now looking through the hole read some print that you would otherwise not be able to read without reading glasses. That hole acts like the F stop settings on SLR type cameras. The smaller hole lengthens the depth of field making the up close sharp but the background is still sharp, too.

I saved this info about peep sights.

Why choose a peep sight for Rifles?
Col.Townsend Whelen

All military battle rifles and many "Dangerous Game Guns" have been fitted with peep sights for at least the last 70 years. There is a good reason for this. They are the fastest and most accurate iron sight you can put on your rifle.








(This 375 H+H has been used on Cape Buffalo, Lions, Elephants and other dangerous game in Zimbabwe for over 50 years. Note the aperture rear sight. It never fogs, breaks, loosens, or goes out of adjustment.)

Here is some information on sighting errors as put forth by no less than, Col.Townsend Whelen, in his book on reloading, "Why Not Load Your Own," published in 1949 when the use of telescopic sights was a rarity. With normal eyesight, either naturally or corrected by glasses, he found that the following list applied at a distance of 100 yards:

Open Rear Sight: Accuracy is unpredictable due to lighting conditions (shoots away from side lighting, and high for overhead mid-day conditions).
Aperture Rear, Gold or Ivory front: 1.5 -2"
Aperture Rear, Black Post front: 1"
Aperture Rear, Aperture front: 1/2 to 3/4"
2-1/2x Scope: 1/4-1/2"
6x Scope: 1/8" to 1/4"
10x Scope: 1/16" to 1/8"
20x Scope: Practically None.
As you can see from the information above, the ability to sight using a aperture sight exceeds the accuracy of most rifles.

The receiver sights will require D&T-ing the receiver. To do that you really should take the gun apart so as to not damage the bolt.
This is a rear sight like yours that is now a slot blank.

The second issue is making that BullsEye fit your gun. Even shimming it, it will not stay put in that odd size dovetail.

[mark08]

Thanks for the info. At the eye dr.'s i can see better thur the little holes. DUH, gray not blond!! Ya'll have given me a good selection of sights to choose from. I am left handed would that matter as a side mount? I could remove up to .150 from the front sight. By moving back to the rear of the receiver how high would the sight need to be. Looks like those side mount aperture sights will raise an inch or more..if so good, i think. Steve are you moved and settled in? ready for my call?

[AJMD429]

What I've been planning to make for years but not done yet is melding a Williams FP base with a Marbles Bullseye aperture... The ultimate ghost/aperture rear sight at a position better for 'old eyes', and in a base permitting repeatable precise adjustment...

[mark08]

That sounds like the perfect sight for me. Best of both worlds. I saw the bullseye and thought how great that peep would be and still be able to see down range. But I didn't see what the distance from the peep would do. If you make one let me know. i love this little guns feel. It's a shooter, just low! I have always hunted and shot whatever, varmints and/or food, that was around but had never been a target/fun shooter. A gun was a tool. I have enjoyed the shooting i have done working to sight in this 92 ( shot more in the last week then in the last 3-4 years). All of you have been so helpful. I have learned a lot. i have gotten an education on shooting. Now i know how little I know. I want to learn more. Maybe able to impress my 17 year old grandson!!

Thanks

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Thanks for the info. At the eye dr.'s i can see better thur the little holes. DUH, gray not blond!! Ya'll have given me a good selection of sights to choose from. I am left handed would that matter as a side mount? I could remove up to .150 from the front sight. By moving back to the rear of the receiver how high would the sight need to be. Looks like those side mount aperture sights will raise an inch or more..if so good, i think. Steve are you moved and settled in? ready for my call?

We are going to be down for the next couple weeks. The web store is still up for on-line orders but they won't ship for about another week or so. I'm at the new place now. The movers brought most of my machines and other equipment Monday. So, for the next two week or so, I'll be hooking this stuff back up to get them running.
If you would like to talk the ATT phone guy is supposed to be here Friday so we should have a land line then. The new number is 512-564-1015. If I miss you use the email below and send a ph # and time and I'll call you.

[AJMD429]

That sounds like the perfect sight for me. Best of both worlds. I saw the bullseye and thought how great that peep would be and still be able to see down range. But I didn't see what the distance from the peep would do. If you make one let me know.

This photo really doews show just about exactly what my half-century old eyes see, if that helps.



You can easily see how natural it is to center the clearly-focused front bead in the hazy 'ghost' ring rear. The central ring enables fine-tuning but the larger outer one aids for speed. You can even tell that in the photo that I need to move the muzzle just a bit to the right to be centered properly vs. the camera's "aim".

For the $19 or whatever they cost now, it wouldn't break the bank to just try one anyway...

[Pete44ru]

I saw the bullseye and thought how great that peep would be and still be able to see down range. But I didn't see what the distance from the peep would do.

The eye relief (distance) is key, to peep sight use.

The closer to the shooter's eye, the easier & faster a peep sight is to use.

The reason why is that the best practice is to look THROUGH the peep's aperture w/o actually looking AT, or seeing, it.

The shooter only need look at the front sight & place it "on target", beit bullseye or game.

That happens due to the human eye naturally centering the front sight in it's field of view, because that's what the shooter's vision (eye) is focused upon.

The size of the aperture makes very little difference, even using up to the much larger, bare-bones "ghost ring" - in fact, the ghost ring is the fastest peep sight to use.

Any effort to consiously "center" the front sight in the aperture is counter-productive - what usually occurs when the peep sight's barrel mounted.



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[Griff]

I saw the bullseye and thought how great that peep would be and still be able to see down range. But I didn't see what the distance from the peep would do.

The eye relief (distance) is key, to peep sight use.
The closer to the shooter's eye, the easier & faster a peep sight is to use.
The reason why is that the best practice is to look THROUGH the peep's aperture w/o actually looking AT, or seeing, it.
The shooter only need look at the front sight & place it "on target", beit bullseye or game.
That happens due to the human eye naturally centering the front sight in it's field of view, because that's what the shooter's vision (eye) is focused upon.
The size of the aperture makes very little difference, even using up to the much larger, bare-bones "ghost ring" - in fact, the ghost ring is the fastest peep sight to use.
Any effort to consiously "center" the front sight in the aperture is counter-productive - what usually occurs when the peep sight's barrel mounted.
.

+1

[mark08]

I think I know what to do now. just decide which Williams/lyman sight would be the best. I also need to get Steve's dvd/tools and tune this puppy. I'll call him tomorrow. Thanks all

[Tycer]

I'll say again why I like the Lyman for your use; to adjust elevation you simply push the button and lift the sight to the desired elevation as indicated on the side. To return to zero you push the button again and let it drop back down to the stop. Easy peasy with no tools. Great for a rainbow trajectory round like the 357 to stretch beyond 100 yds.

Both the Williams require a screwdriver to adjust.

[mark08]

Thanks Tycer, That difference is noted.