Hello! And a problem.

[Harris85]

Happy to have finally joined the forum! I have long come here seeking the collective insight of the leverguns community and have happily been a reader rather than a participant, but now I have a bit of a problem and I wonder what the best way to proceed is.

I have a pre-64 Winchester 94 in .30-30 which seems to have a copper fouling problem. Getting the fouling out shouldn't be all that big of an issue (Sweets 7.62 etc.) but keeping it out has been. My bore is far from perfect but, when looking from the chamber end with a light, the rifling is sharp and deep. When I shine a light on the muzzle end, however, quite a lot of copper fouling is visible. This came after only about 40 rounds had been fired- and the rifle was thoroughly clean before that range session.

Is there anything I can do? Gunsmiths are essentially extinct where I am from so re-barreling probably isn't an option.

[Ysabel Kid]

Welcome to the fire!

I am sure someone with some experience with this issue will be along shortly.

[Dave]

You might try to smooth the bore with JB Bore paste. The biggest question though is how does it shoot? If it shoots well, you know the old saying about messing with a good shooting rifle.

[Griff]

and welcome to THE Forum... official like! I goota agree w/Dave:

You might try to smooth the bore with JB Bore paste. The biggest question though is how does it shoot? If it shoots well, you know the old saying about messing with a good shooting rifle.

But, I do have a few questions.

How long have you had this rifle? And, if you've had it awhile, have you changed anything recently? Ammo brand, from lead to jacketed, etc.?

Have you measured the bore?

Habe you tried other brands of ammo/bullets if you reload?

[AJMD429]

There is a 'ceramic filler-in of microscopic fissures and pockets' product I came across an article mentioning in a precision-rifle magazine a few months ago. The author seemed to like it and it crossed my mind as something to investigate. I'll see if I can dig up the info.

Here it is - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48495

MidwayUSA sells it - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/176814 ... ugv1596560

Some other reviews:

• http://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleani ... -coat.html
  http://www.dynamicfinishes.com/companie ... k-coatings
  http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 50012.html

Looks like it probably does an excellent job most of the time, but may require some attention to detail as to applying it correctly. I figure 10% of people will screw anything like that up, and be upset, so will post lots of negative reviews to 'vent'. If 50% or more of the 'reviews' are positive and the users who are pleased say the problem was you have to use the product correctly I figure it is probably worth looking at. I flatter myself to think I'm in the group who would actually figure out how to apply it correctly.

[TedH]

Having copper visible when looking in your muzzle with a light isn't necessarily an issue at all, most guns will do that. You have a tight fitting copper slug getting shoved through a tube at a very high speed and temperature, you are going to have some copper left behind. And, it sounds as if it cleans up rather easily with your use of Sweets. Now it if builds up enough to affect your accuracy, then that's another matter.

[gatorcole]

If you are firing reloads has the brass been resize to the right size? Or has the barrel been removed or replaced?

[guido4198]

Welcome aboard..!!
Like you said...Sweets 7.62 will absolutely get the copper out. Unless you KNOW for a fact that the rifle has never seen any non-jacketed bullets, the next thing I'd do is run some Shooter's Choice lead remover through the bore. THEN...JB Bore paste.
After all that....Shoot her some more. If the precision is still there...i.e.: you get respectable groups...then call it good REGARDLESS of how much copper is visible from the muzzle.
Let's try to keep this issue, and perhaps also...your expectations in perspective. This is a Mod 94, 30/30 levergun.
If this inquiry were about a custom built 30-cal. magnum 1000 yd competition bolt rifle...I might suggest additional, more exotic treatments. For your rifle..."minute of deer" is perfectly acceptable. Clean her up REAL good...and ENJOY..!!

[Harris85]

Thank you all for the helpful responses and hearty welcomes! To provide a bit more information I have not yet taken up reloading and have been relying exclusively on factory ammo. Recently I tried some 150 gr. Federal soft points instead of my more usual Winchester 170 gr. SP. I have not measured my bore. I have had the rifle for a couple of years now and it looks as though it had been carried quite a bit through the bush by the former owner/s.

[J Miller]

Harris,

Having had a number of "new, or very slightly used" 94s in 30-30 I'll tell you that the bores are a bit rough when new.
I've had them show copper fouling on the edges of the lands and the bottoms of the groves. They shot just fine.
When I got home I cleaned them, not anally so as to get every speck of copper out, but clean and put them away till the next time.
As time went on and the bores smoothed out the copper wash appeared less and less. It never completely stops, but eventually it will smooth out till you'll not really notice it.

Joe

[mod71alaska]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM, HARRIS85! Where are you from?

You're shooting a pre-64 30-30 Model 94...you have class!!! What year? Long wood or short wood? What kind of groups are you getting and at what distance? Is either the 150 or 170 gr more accurate than the other?

Good shootin'!!!

[Chuck 100 yd]

COOL !! Clean it and enjoy it... If you must, Fire some fire-lapping rounds through it.
Midway sells a fire lapping kit to treat your own bullets. I have done a couple rifles that way.
I cant say accuracy is dramatically improved but the bores are very smooth afterwords and clean up more easily. I did my Uberti 73 .45 colt to reduce leading with CAS loads. All leading stopped completely.

[Harris85]

Well, I don't know if anyone has said that I have class before. There is a first time for everything, though! My 94 has a short forend and was made sometime in the mid-fifties (I think.) I drifted out the front and rear sights and am currently using a Williams fool proof aperture sight in the rear and a small diameter brass bead up front. I have yet to sight in the rifle with these new sights, however (shot off a couple boxes with friends, but accuracy was not a priority.) I hail from Halifax, NS.

I am pretty new to shooting, so any comment on accuracy (really, the lack thereof) has more to do with my "ability" than that of the rifle .

Thanks again for the welcomes and advice! I will probably just clean and shoot it (after sighting it in) to get a feel for how it groups. I will take it from there.

[PriseDeFer]

As has been said, a copper wash in the bore is not a problem. Read Col. Townsend Whelen on this if you wish. Ramming and rubbing abrasives down the bore can be a problem, plus it's messy and tiresome. Clean less, shoot more.

[Sixgun]

Hey, its a 30-30, not a 6.5 X .284 1000 yd. gun that shoots 5" groups at that range. It won't hurt it none. Clean after every 200 rds. or so and by the time you reached 1000 rds., the barrel will be so smooth, you will have forgotten about this post.

Or............you can do what we do here.......shoot cast gc bullets ----------------6

[JohndeFresno]

There is a 'ceramic filler-in of microscopic fissures and pockets' product I came across an article mentioning in a precision-rifle magazine a few months ago....
Here it is - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48495

MidwayUSA sells it - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/176814 ... ugv1596560

Some other reviews:

• http://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleani ... -coat.html
  http://www.dynamicfinishes.com/companie ... k-coatings
  http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 50012.html

Welcome to the forum, Harris85!

I think that AJMD429 has put together some great links to a bore coating product that I will probably be purchasing in the near future, especially after reading the magazine article that is recapped at thehighroad.org site (above)

Long-Range Hunting.Com also has some interesting posts about its amazing effectiveness:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... oat-67601/

To get your barrel clean, I cannot recommend any product more highly than Wipe-Out, which comes in liquid form (for swabbing overnight) and foam (for extremely quick results). I have both, and use them exclusively to keep my firearm bores clean.

Fortunately, my product test (with pix) is still on this forum for you to peruse. See just how powerful this product is, for yourself at:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 1&p=428584

Glad to have you aboard!

[Borregos]

A warm welcome to you from Ontario
You will enjoy it here!

Nothing new to add, you have a lot of good answers here.

[Rusty]

Contact lbtmoulds and get some of veral's firelapping compound.