Thoughts on Home Protection for non-gun people...

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:52 am

My wife has decided that she would like a weapon (gun, loaded--ready to go) for home protection. I have pistols, revolvers, patrol shotgun in 12 gauge, and a few leverguns. I know that my wife and daughters do not like the recoil of the 12 gage (we've been there in the past), and aren't really interested in the handguns. they are not gun-people and will not put the time into becoming proficient with the handguns; this is not a knock on the ladies i live with, it's just the reality.

so after some thought i was wondering if a Henry levergun in .22cal. wouldn't be a good choice--all three have shot the Henry and all three are comfortable with it, understand the mechanics, and like it...I understand the limitations, but i also know that i wouldn't want all 15 hollow-points launched in my direction from an angry woman... i also thought about a 410, a 20 gage, or a Rossi 92 loaded with 38's or 357's as an option.

so i want to thank you in advance for your input, opinions, and comments... :)

PS-- i know that many LEO's that i serve with have bought their wives
a Walther P-22 or the new Ruger SR-22 in .22cal. i also have LE approved
pepper-spray at home too.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:24 am

I have a 22 year old daughter that will graduate college in May, so I currently am having the same deliberation myself. Currently, I have given her non-lethal options such as a Stun Gun and Pepper Spray. I also purchased a NEF .410 single shot with Federal Buckshot loads. I am also giving her my Taurus 85 DAO in .38 SPC. Although currently she is only hitting 100% out to about 10 yrds, so we need to keep working on that. In addition to the training I have done with her, I have her enrolled in the NRA Basic Pistol Course next month.

The Henry and a Ruger 10/22 are strong options as well.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:33 am

I'd take the 10/22 with a factory 25 rounder before the levergun.... every time.

Less to mess with. I don't advocate any .22 for defense, even though i've seen people killed with them, but it's better than nothing.

If you have access to them, a Hi-point 9mm carbine or better, a Beretta Storm CX4 9mm would be just as soft shooting and considerably more firepower.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:01 am

I also like the idea you suggested on a Rossi or Marlin in .38/.357. It would allow you to reload without taking the gun out of the fight, unlike a tube fed .22.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:00 am

No, not a lever for a non-gun person. A semi-auto .22 would be the better choice I think, but an M1 carbine would be even better.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

FWIW, I gave my youngest Daughter what later became the Kimber Pepper Gun, when she temporarily moved (for work) to a state with restrictive gun ownership laws.

Regardless, I would strongly suggest a small/cut-down shotgun in either 20ga or .410-bore, as being the most effective at typical inside-the-home ranges/distances.

This is a Mossberg .41o Cruiser, but they may prefer a regular (interchangeable) buttstock:

http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotgun ... shot/50455

The Mossy's are also available in 20ga, and both available with different buttstocks:

http://www.mossberg.com/products/shotgu ... hot-8-shot

.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:21 am

A small fire extinguisher will work close in

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:53 am

If they will shoot enough to learn the action a 357 (using 38 Special ammo even) or 45 Colt (using 'cowboy' level loads - quieter than a 22 and no recoil) lever gun set up like my Night Scout would be easy to shoot even from the hip if necessary. If not willing or able to learn to that extent a double barrel shotgun with light loads or sub-gauge adapter (you can shoot 410's in a 12 gauge with them)?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:36 am

After watching my wife and daughter shoot an SP101 and getting a call while in another state asking how to clear a stovepipe in the 1911 while they were target shooting at the house, I bought a Glock. After seeing their confidence level skyrocket and their groups shrink, I gave my daughter a G19 with NY trigger and night sights for her 21st birthday. Glocks are simple, pull the trigger, and nothing is more reliable.

As far as rifles, a livhtweight AR carbine is always a good choice IMO. I've seen 17 year old girls qualify with a worn out M16.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:41 am

Mossberg makes a "home defense" .410 designed for smaller stature and recoil sensitive people. That new .410 PDX ammo is some real effective stuff.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:10 am

I would suggest a little bit bigger caliber as well.

Also, something to keep in mind is that a dog is a really good first line of defense.

Johnny

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:57 am

I like the levergun for home-defense in this situation.

38/357 might be the best compromise - or better still
is 44 Special. Mild recoil, especially in a long gun, but it
makes a big hole. Centerfires without a tube mag are
easy to top up, too. The late Jeff Cooper opined that a
levergun still wasn't a bad choice for homestead defense
in the late 20th century.

15 rounds of .22 LR isn't ideal, but way better than nothing.
.22 WRM is better than .22 LR.

-Stretch

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:01 am

Blackhawk wrote:Also, something to keep in mind is that a dog is a really good first line of defense.

I knew a lady who actually had a full-grown LION as a pet (modified her two-car garage into a 'den' and had an enclosure outside and a barred-door to the house). She was at home ill when a trio of burglars with crowbar-in-hand came around her side door after she didn't answer the front one; they beat-feet when the lion roared...

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:19 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:Also, something to keep in mind is that a dog is a really good first line of defense.
I knew a lady who actually had a full-grown LION as a pet (modified her two-car garage into a 'den' and had an enclosure outside and a barred-door to the house). She was at home ill when a trio of burglars with crowbar-in-hand came around her side door after she didn't answer the front one; they beat-feet when the lion roared...

My dad always had black labs. Big, friendly, goofy dogs. But a huge bark and a love of showing off, they sure did keep problems away.

I've noticed that non-shooters are put off by complexity - even though I don't find any of my guns complex, my wife can't really get past the old Walter Brennan line "work the lever and pull the trigger". For this reason, I'm more comfortable with my wife having use of either a revolver or breakbarrel shotgun. Intuitive and easy. Loading the leverguns is beyond her.

One thing I will say about shot guns, put on the spot, the recoil won't bother them a bit. Won't even have noticed it until 10-15 minutes later.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:58 am

I can't think of anything more simple and reliable than a J-Frame .38.....

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 am

Deleted

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:11 am

I second the 10-22 with the 25 round mag. It doesn't kick, doesn't need to be super maintained, and once upon a time you could practice with it cheap.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:19 am

I've been looking for one of the little Mossberg 410s for my mom. I thought the HD version was a little bulky for her but the little Bantam versions that would be perfect for I think.
She has a little Bersa .380 that she doesn't shoot enough to be comfrotable with. She had my grandfather's
Colt .38spl Official Police but was a bit heavy for her so she gave it to me and asked me to find a .410 since she grew shooting those on my grandparents farm.

jb

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:43 am

You don't live in NYS????????? or California etc?????????

What the women in my life----use

Weighs 4lbs(even)

-----------------fits into a 15" laptop case and almost no recoil.

They have the flush stock 10rd Glock mags and no Dot scope(open sights)in the .40S&W versions.(extremely user friendly/packable)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExvCX4BBrAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ4pCc_cP9A

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:50 am

Since 99.99% of all misfires I've ever experienced were with rimfires, I would not be inclined to use a rimfire semi-auto for this application.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:16 am

If you can find one, the little Ruger carbines in 9mm or 40 S&W are nice too. Same size as M1 carbine. Here it is compared to my 22 Hornet Savage and 22 Hornet Ruger (which it nearly outshot, accuracy-wise). Uses P-85 (etc.) magazines.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 am

Remlin should stop viewing the world from the plexiglass bellybutton and reintroduce the Camp Carbines.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:02 pm

I was on duty today so I kicked the idea around with the senior staff of the LE Agency I serve. the consensus was something in 20ga. or 410, our chief-of-patrol's wife uses a Judge for home-defense. I appreciate all of the comments. I do have a couple of J-frames and SP-101, what I really should get is an old S&W Model 10 in .38spl. I carried and trained with Glocks for over 8-years, but have personally cycled off to SA XD's (XDs in .45ACP), really like the grip safety.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:33 pm

Short barrelled .410 pump.

wilko · Post by **wilko** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:36 pm

since they wont be doing drills or shooting a lot i recommend a revolver. Do not make the mistake of buying an airweight .38 special because of the recoil. A steel j-frame with lasergrip or 22 will do fine. Lever gun .22 with velocitors or small caliber shotgun will do as well. Listen to your girls as what they are comfortable with and not the guys on this forum telling you what they should get....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:43 pm

30wcf wrote:I do have a couple of J-frames and SP-101, what I really should get is an old S&W Model 10 in .38spl.

The SP-101 is a darned good revolver - why would you prefer a S&W M-10...? I'd think the Ruger to be a bit more 'durable' if abused and thus a bit more reliable, even if the S&W is far more of a 'classic' and example of craftsmanship.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:54 pm

I agree with wilko, what ever they are comfortable shooting and will shoot for practice with is what you should use. Having a 10mm MP-5 with lasers and a 500 lumen light on it would make me happy but I won't be there if they need it (I would if I could). It has to be something they will use. Any firearm is better than no firearm. Most of the threat is from people who don't want shot not someone who is willing to put up with the pain to accomplish the mission.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:10 pm

I agree completely with the small revolver crowd. I certainly wouldn't try the .22 jam-o-matic carbine, I wouldn't want this even for myself. The very best gun for them is the gun they can shoot comfortably and not have to fuss with safeties, levers, bolt handles etc in the "heat of battle" so to speak.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:27 pm

You mean like my 6 shot double action revolver in .32 long that opens up those 85 gr. hollowpoints to .64 caliber every time?

gak · Post by **gak** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:11 pm

Amongst the rifle types, another +1 for the M1 Carbine. I hve not trued the AO's as Steve has, but my GI has run pretty flawlessly for the 60+ years we've had them. Mine has seen modest but consistent duty over that time frame, but not coddled, and is still 95% condition, though I too wouldn't mind retiring it from primary duty for the same reasons Steve's mentioned, however. I like the idea of the discontinued Ruger "PC" carbines too. Typical of the whole line of Ruger semi-auto carbines inckuding the Minis, the PCs heavier than they should be for the pistol rounds they shoot, but tolerable. I'd pick the .40 just because "why not?" - that much nore punch w/o a lot of punishment on the shoulder end in that format. Ditto the Beretta carbine seems a good choice, though I have no experience with them. Perhaps a 20 ga pump amongst the shotguns. My #1 choice is.an older Ithaca 37 16 ga.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:41 pm

Mescalero wrote:You mean like my 6 shot double action revolver in .32 long that opens up those 85 gr. hollowpoints to .64 caliber every time?

A seven-shot Taurus 357 with ported longer barrel is a nice 'bedroom' gun, and I guess there are eight-shot versions as well.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:12 pm

After shooting an SP101 a lot, and seeing how hard it was for my wife and daughter to learn to shoot it accurately, I decided a snubbie 38 is the absolute worst gun for a woman who is not going to shoot a lot, and really I don't even think they're a womans gun. After seeing how well they shot a Glock, and how comfortable and confident they became very quickly, I decided that was the gun for them.

I think a .22, especially a semi auto, is probably the worst choice I can think of for a woman.

I do like the idea of a 410 pump. I may need to look into one of those. I dont think a 20 ga is a good choice, they seem to kick as hard as a 12.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:24 pm

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:42 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
30wcf wrote:I do have a couple of J-frames and SP-101, what I really should get is an old S&W Model 10 in .38spl.
The SP-101 is a darned good revolver - why would you prefer a S&W M-10...? I'd think the Ruger to be a bit more 'durable' if abused and thus a bit more reliable, even if the S&W is far more of a 'classic' and example of craftsmanship.

I cut my teeth on a 30oz S&W Model 10 shooting +P .38's (same gun my NYPD bud's carried), the heavy 4" barrel is very accurate, it can take more of a beating than you'll realize, it used to be the LE standard for many years, plus I like the sixth shot--I love my Ruger SP-101 (toughest revolver i ever owned), but mine is a 2 1/4" bbl. which may be difficult for my non-gun ladies to be accurate with...thank you for the question though... :)

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:45 pm

Oh, we're showing our GSD's now?

Here's the last one I trained. He's been doing domestic duty as a personal protection dog for a lady who's husband is gone a lot. Took out a couple Dobies who jumped their fence, and almost the owner when he got uppity.

He would bite the sleeve, but as soon as the decoy dropped it, it was hard to get him to carry it, he wanted to drop it and go for another bite. He was never looking at the sleeve when he went in for a bite.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 pm

sore shoulder wrote:

GREAT DOG...I always like the whine of discouragement that a LE K-9 makes when he realizes that the bad-guy has suddenly decided to give up...one of life's precious moments... :)

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:03 pm

20 guage too much for a small statured person.
Get real people, they have to be able to shoot the gun multiple times.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:05 pm

30wcf wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:
GREAT DOG...I always like the whine of discouragement that a LE K-9 makes when he realizes that the bad-guy has suddenly decided to give up...one of life's precious moments...

THANKS!

I have raised pups for cops, last one is on a SWAT team in WA state. His handler told me that in the local prison it's a badge of honor to have been bitten by Brutus. Brutus us so well known that apparently the brothas calm down when he shows up.

vonfatman · Post by **vonfatman** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:11 am

Another vote for a small revolver, hammer less. If it were me, if get a Ruger L-something....the polymer, hammer less, .38 or 357) Don't ever let them shoot it with the mags....just instruct with powderpuff loads and throw in .357s for the bad guys. They will never know or feel it if its ever needed.

Bob

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:25 am

sore shoulder wrote:Oh, we're showing our GSD's now?

Here's the last one I trained. He's been doing domestic duty as a personal protection dog for a lady who's husband is gone a lot. Took out a couple Dobies who jumped their fence, and almost the owner when he got uppity.

He would bite the sleeve, but as soon as the decoy dropped it, it was hard to get him to carry it, he wanted to drop it and go for another bite. He was never looking at the sleeve when he went in for a bite.

Did he kill the Dobe's ???????????????
How bad on the owner ??????

What is funny----I had a pair of Red Dobe's(brother/sister)they were (I thought then pretty bad a##)
Though I did have when I was 20 years old a big black Dobe that I got (in Brackney Pa.)at 6 months of age that Flunked out of Guard Dog Training with the State Police.-----(boy,he was a biter too-----only of people though)????????? (Samson)
Ready for this--------------I have learned------sometimes a breed fools ya-------I have a 3 year old (the big broad head kind)

120lb non-neutered yellow lab. OMG-------------This dog is an absolute "animal----I have had Dobe's/Shepards/Rottie/Bull terrier/and this dog------takes them like Grant took Richmnond. He kills cats/coons/etc. in about 3 seconds and last dog on property(big gray/white male Pit bull)(who was barking at, then trying to mount our female mini schauzer on a leash) Big Chaz got him and broke his front leg within 10 seconds

Had him up against a 6ft fence killing him(until I pulled off)he wouldn't let go of Pit either!

Can never tell------?????

People say----boy he is scary looking-----------------------I tell them he is a Bull Mastiff hybrid

He is AKC registered! ??????????

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:47 am

Mescalero wrote:Remlin should stop viewing the world from the plexiglass bellybutton and reintroduce the Camp Carbines.

Yes, and given what they sell for on the used market I just don't understand how it doesn't make good business sense. All of Ruger's carbines except the 10/22 and Mini-14 are out of production as well.

These sell well: http://www.justrightcarbines.com/ And would make excellent home defense rifles.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 am

madman4570 wrote:
Did he kill the Dobe's ???????????????

One had to be put down, the other required a lot of vet bills.

How bad on the owner ??????

Nearly arrested at scene, stiff fines, barely able to retain dog that survived.

Jackhole from CA. Go figure.

Just to clarify, She was walking the GSD on lead on a public road in a remote subdivision here in the mountains. The Dobies jumped their fence and initiated the attack. GSD never left lead length even though she dropped it, and did a hold and bark on the dobie owner till the cops arrived. The 4 years of training payed off. That dog was also very well socialized and could be taken anywhere and no one would ever guess what his training was. When the dobie owner came running out into the road threatening her, the GSD waited till he was within striking distance, then initiated the hold and bark. Textbook.

He is AKC registered! ??????????

Ok, please don't take this personal, I know your dog is probably a family member.

A dog born with 3 legs and one eye can be AKC registered. All that is required for an AKC registry is the AKC papers from the parents being sent to AKC. AKC does nothing to make sure the pups conform to the breed standard, or that the parents are actually the ones on the paperwork (LOTS of fraudulent AKC papers are made this way), that's what dog shows and competitions do. I've had people try to sell me a GSD bitch that was spayed, and said if I wanted the AKC papers it was extra. I laughed at them. What value do those papers hold for a dog that can't even be bred? That is not an unusual scenario either.

AKC registry is very simply the first step in managing a breed. Several breeds have been ruined in the US by people breeding dogs that never should have had their genes in the breed pool, but since the dogs had AKC papers they thought that was something special. Many first time buyers are duped by this, and then propagate it.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:14 am

Mescalero wrote:20 guage too much for a small statured person.
Get real people, they have to be able to shoot the gun multiple times.

It seems like the variety of opinions, many of them driven by real-world experiences, indicates the only real way to do this is to let the non-gun-people shoot a variety of firearms and let THEM tell you what they are comfortable with, then go with that one. I've done that several times, and sometimes been 'disappointed' with what they selected, but what they are confident and will practice with is what they will do best with in the long run.

I do tend to stick with 380 and above in handguns, and encourage 9mm or 38 Special and above in rifles, and 20 gauge if possible in shotguns. One lady of elderly and petite stature chose a 20 gauge double-barrel but used inserts that looked like 20 gauge shells but had a hole/chamber in them to hold 410's. The gun was a family member's donated to her and cost her far less than a double-barrel 410 if she could even find one, and she just couldn't manage the 'heft' of the only 410 pump I got hold of for her to try. I think she weighed about 95 pounds soaking wet.

If you pick something they actually ENJOY shooting enough, maybe after a year or so they will no longer be 'non-gun people'. . .

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:39 am

They have to use it.
It does them no good if they will not shoot it.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:54 am

Mescalero wrote:They have to use it.
It does them no good if they will not shoot it.

+1

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:37 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
madman4570 wrote:
Did he kill the Dobe's ???????????????
One had to be put down, the other required a lot of vet bills.
How bad on the owner ??????
Nearly arrested at scene, stiff fines, barely able to retain dog that survived.

Jackhole from CA. Go figure.

Just to clarify, She was walking the GSD on lead on a public road in a remote subdivision here in the mountains. The Dobies jumped their fence and initiated the attack. GSD never left lead length even though she dropped it, and did a hold and bark on the dobie owner till the cops arrived. The 4 years of training payed off. That dog was also very well socialized and could be taken anywhere and no one would ever guess what his training was. When the dobie owner came running out into the road threatening her, the GSD waited till he was within striking distance, then initiated the hold and bark. Textbook.

He is AKC registered! ??????????
Ok, please don't take this personal, I know your dog is probably a family member.

A dog born with 3 legs and one eye can be AKC registered. All that is required for an AKC registry is the AKC papers from the parents being sent to AKC. AKC does nothing to make sure the pups conform to the breed standard, or that the parents are actually the ones on the paperwork (LOTS of fraudulent AKC papers are made this way), that's what dog shows and competitions do. I've had people try to sell me a GSD bitch that was spayed, and said if I wanted the AKC papers it was extra. I laughed at them. What value do those papers hold for a dog that can't even be bred? That is not an unusual scenario either.

AKC registry is very simply the first step in managing a breed. Several breeds have been ruined in the US by people breeding dogs that never should have had their genes in the breed pool, but since the dogs had AKC papers they thought that was something special. Many first time buyers are duped by this, and then propagate it.

I did not know that.(and nothing taken personal either)

When we got this pup----(never had a Lab)thought--------ah, he is just going to be a mellow fellow!
Noticed about when he was 10 months old(walking around the lake at about 11pm)had him on a 16ft Flexi leash.Came upon this bench
where a guy was sitting facing away from us wearing a black hoodie.Seemed a little weird but-----maybe I am not too bright but thought (no problem whatever)was not packing at that moment either.Just as we(only dog and I)got about 15ft away(I had Chaz's leash out to about 10ft)the guy abruptly stood up------my dog went for him(you know that deep sound/growling/snapping a bad a## dog makes???

His tail curved right around to almost touching his back,his hair on top of his neck/back straight up.
I thought---------------------------------------Is this what a Lab does????????

When on our property etc. say at night and I am waliking him, I have him on the leash and someone comes walking up driveway etc.
Unless I tell him----(they are OK------nice,nice) ----he will go to the end of his leash(about dragging me over the bank)

and now he does this (throwing sod all over)I mean like an enraged bull(all 4 feet)not like when he just marks.His 28" choke chain gets real tight and he sounds like a lion/dog

Another thing----you know how Border Collies watch their owners(in the eyes)mine does that! I mean,this dog really reads every sign I do!
My daughter has a big male full sized poodle(about 85lbs and very tall)they play,when Cooper(poodle)has the only bacon bone left things get quiet, then all of a sudden it sounds like a angry bear in the room(daughter is saying "Dad better get in here" Chaz grabs Cooper by the front leg right above the upper leg/shoulder joint and shows his teeth doing a deep growl---and Cooper just freezes.
That darn Chaz has fiqured out------------------where to get a dog----after breaking that Pit Bull's Leg!

Trust me---I know by no means that he compares to a highly trained dog like you guys use in the defensive arena----but for a big yeller dog like old yeller-------------------------------------Wow!

Friend of mine raises prized Semmental cattle and Chaz remainds me with the look of one of their big bulls---only downsized!

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:48 pm

Madman, no doubt your dog is a great companion and watchdog. Remember, originally the wolf was domesticated for that purpose. His alertness toward a threat is really all we should expect from a good watchdog. Some of the best watchdogs are little yappy lapdogs.

One thing, raised hackles is fear. This does not mean they wont bite, it just means they are very intimidated. Many will in fact work through that fear, which is really bravery on the part of the dog. The most dangerous aggressive dogs I've known gave no sign at all. I've seen dogs that it required more work to get them to bark than to bite.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:51 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Madman, no doubt your dog is a great companion and watchdog. Remember, originally the wolf was domesticated for that purpose. His alertness toward a threat is really all we should expect from a good watchdog. Some of the best watchdogs are little yappy lapdogs.

One thing, raised hackles is fear. This does not mean they wont bite, it just means they are very intimidated. Many will in fact work through that fear, which is really bravery on the part of the dog. The most dangerous aggressive dogs I've known gave no sign at all. I've seen dogs that it required more work to get them to bark than to bite.

Good info----thanks, will take heed!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:16 pm

Please, no body tell my Daughter that she should not have a S&W J-Frame

I gave her a 3" 38 Special, blue steel and NICE stage grips...she shoot better than I do with that dang thing (which is pretty good shooting), and the recoil does not bother her in the least...She gets the speed loader, too....

If that don't work, she has the 9 shot Sentinel .22 I gave her....

About some dogs.....My Boston has no training to speak of, but, is a well-loved, and playful companion...Until, that is, something threatens one of his people....I've seen him go buzz-saw four different times, and three of them were not for me, but, a four year old holding his leash fishing when three dudes got too close, once when a large dog got too close to my daughter when she was holding the leash, and the one time for me was when a Australian Sheep Dog nipped at me.....That little dude shows no fear, he just loudly goes for the throat...He is not like this around people that do not seem to be a threat, and he will go to anybody he likes (99.999% of them)....He can hear anything getting near the house, and lets me know without going apeChit....All in all, a lucky find for me...the perfect companion....

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Paladin wrote:
Mescalero wrote:They have to use it.
It does them no good if they will not shoot it.
+1

+2.

But, sometimes circumstances don't require. Shortly after moving into our first house, a brand new subdivision, about 2130hours someone attempted to gain entry thru our bedroom window; a slder w/o any locks beyond the simple latch they came with. The wife was just out of the shower, in a robe with her hair drying in a towel, she walked into the closet, got the Rem 870, walked over next to the window and racked it, once. She said all she heard was the pounding of boots across the dirt of our yet to be fenced or sodded backyard.

I don't particularily recommend a long gun for inside the house protection. Just fine for when the bad guys are still out... but once they gain entry, I'm much more partial to a short gun you can keep in close and maintain control over.

Ain't nothin' wrong with "LadySmith", being that it's purpose built for those with small hands, and only load it w/.38Spls, recoil will be mageable with a 2-handed combat grip.

Keep all her shooting practice inside 5 yards, from close-in just above the waist, instinctive, unsighted stance... Tell her to pick a spot where she wants the holes to appear. You, AND her, will probably be VERY surprised at how close to her "spot" those do appear! Something like this, but keeping both hands on the gun:

Teach to fire 2, assess, fire 3, and assess while she reloads... Speed-i-loaders are pretty easy to learn how to manipulate by feel alone, and unlike an autoloader, don't have feed issues or that big, heavy slide that slams back & forth. Which can disturb a person's grip. A double-action also doesn't have feed issues associated with a person's grip.