Rust Buckets

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:52 pm

I picked these up the other day. Oneis a S&W 38. Hopefully Someone can tell Me what model it is. It is totally rusted up and cannot be opened. My idea is to soak them in Tranny Fluid with a litte mineral spirits mixed in. Anyone with a better idea ? The other is a Charter Arms 357, it caught the worst of the water. The Guy said His Grandmother had buried them in the back yard in a not so waterproof box. Then comes the flood and the resulting condition. I don't even know wy I boight them other than "they r Guns" and the price was reasonable -100 bucks.
Perry

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:00 pm

Perry, you need an intervention, Sir....

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:09 pm

BlaineG wrote:Perry, you need an intervention, Sir....

And Ur gonna help ? U Guys just don't know what it's like to have this sickness Good news is that it is Not life threatning and it isn't contagious so U Guys are safe.
Perry
P.S. others have eluded to that also Blaine, Her nme is Mrs. Weiher.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:13 pm

I think it is a S&W Model 15
Do you want to sell it, looks salvageable.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:14 pm

pwl44m wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Perry, you need an intervention, Sir....
And Ur gonna help ? U Guys just don't know what it's like to have this sickness Good news is that it is Not life threatning and it isn't contagious so U Guys are safe.
Perry
P.S. others have eluded to that also Blaine, Her nme is Mrs. Weiher.

All kidding aside....can you make those functional after a bit of work?

Alphawolf45 · Post by **Alphawolf45** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:19 pm

I use electrolytic rust removal process. It will pull the rust right out of the pores..Done several guns that way..

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:29 pm

Alphawolf,
Can you offer a informative description of that process?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:37 pm

I'm NOT a metal expert at all, but I've had a couple guys 'in the industry' tell me that age and rust do NOT affect the integrity of steel (extreme heat does, and extreme stress as in over-loading does), so the guns should be salvagable IF there is not too much material eroded from critical surfaces that can't be repaired or replaced reasonably (i.e. chamber walls, sears, etc.).

SO.... I think you done good.

Dunno the electrolytic and all the other technical stuff, but I'm sure the guns could be made 'serviceable' - not necessarily top-notch, but shootable.

Good projects..

junkbug · Post by **junkbug** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:54 pm

I'm not certain, but I believe the process is similar to making a home-made "Foul-out" style bare cleaner. A tub, filled with water, that has a certain solution of vinegar added, with stripped copper wire and a power supply, such as a charger for a phone or what not. I built one about 5 years ago, but have forgotten the details. The gun I was working on had other issue, but the rust was removed pretty nicely. And I only gave it one run.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:01 pm

It hurts to look at those.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:45 pm

They are expensive fishing sinkers.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:36 pm

There was a guy on ar15.com who posted pics and a great explanation of how he used electrolysis to remove/dissolve the rust from a 1911 that looked as bad as the model 15 on top. When he started, not one part would move. He actually got it where it would function, I don't recall if he fired it but it probably could have been fired.

I searched for the thread but couldn't find it. Alphawolf45 said that he uses electrolysis on guns, maybe he would be willing to post some pictures or provide a link.

I do hope that the $100 was for the pair....

I only say that because I didn't pay much more than that for my M15 back in 1999.

Below is a pic of my S&W Model 15, that except for grips (and finish) looks like the top revolver in your pic.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:47 pm

It jumped out as a 15 to me, good looking gun dude.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:01 pm

Mdl 15 if chambered in .38Spl, mdl 19 if .357Mag.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:02 pm

Griff wrote:Mdl 15 if chambered in .38Spl, mdl 19 if .357Mag.

True, but Model 19 has shrouded ejector rod, where Model 15 doesn't.

Alphawolf45 · Post by **Alphawolf45** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:21 pm

Electrolytic rust removal... Use one tablespoon per gallon of water Arm and Hammer Activated Baking Soda Deoderizer ( sold in clothes washing powders section.)

Negative lead from 12 or 15 volt DC power supply to rusty part and posive lead to a sacrificial steel anode ( use rebar or old mower blade or whatever junk you have) in the water but dont touch the workpiece naturally.. You'll get a couple amps working to remove the rust. It will foam with tiny bubbles..Works good. Easy....Caution it will remove plating.

.Just 20 minutes ago I took a big steel forge pan I was using the process on out of a kiddie pool . Its ready to prime and then paint.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:24 pm

Alphawolf45 wrote: Negative lead from 12 or 15 volt DC power supply to rusty part and posive lead to a sacrificial steel anode ( use rebar or old mower blade or whatever junk you have) in the water but dont touch the workpiece naturally.. You'll get a couple amps working to remove the rust.

Can you use a battery charger for the power supply? What would you recommend?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:41 pm

Alphawolf45 wrote:Electrolytic rust removal... Use one tablespoon per gallon of water Arm and Hammer Activated Baking Soda Deoderizer ( sold in clothes washing powders section.)

Negative lead from 12 or 15 volt DC power supply to rusty part and posive lead to a sacrificial steel anode ( use rebar or old mower blade or whatever junk you have) in the water but dont touch the workpiece naturally.. You'll get a couple amps working to remove the rust. It will foam with tiny bubbles..Works good. Easy....Caution it will remove plating.

.Just 20 minutes ago I took a big steel forge pan I was using the process on out of a kiddie pool . Its ready to prime and then paint.

If you used a copper piece and reversed the leads could you copper plate the guns? Or silver? Whatever?

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:10 pm

I was thinking it was a model 15 also. If you can get it working it still has the potential of being a good shooter. Sometimes having something you don't have to worry about makes it more fun. Good truck gun, etc.

mack · Post by **mack** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:22 pm

Perry,
I've had good luck with old Master padlocks that have rusted up into a lump around salt water by soaking them in a jar of "Marvels Mystery Oil" for a few weeks. They looked worse on the outside than what you have got there.
Not saying they looked very pretty afterwards, but they would usually work if you had the right key.

spaceman spiff · Post by **spaceman spiff** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:50 pm

3 or 4 parts of water to 1 part molasses works magic on rust. I used this method to
restore and old master cylinder and other rusty car parts. Do a google search.

spaceman

Alphawolf45 · Post by **Alphawolf45** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:52 pm

damienph wrote:
Alphawolf45 wrote: Negative lead from 12 or 15 volt DC power supply to rusty part and posive lead to a sacrificial steel anode ( use rebar or old mower blade or whatever junk you have) in the water but dont touch the workpiece naturally.. You'll get a couple amps working to remove the rust.
Can you use a battery charger for the power supply? What would you recommend?

Okay..I just now went out and tried automotive battery charger..No, dont work ..Think theres a sense circuit in the charger intended to ramp up voltage on a dead battery..Anyway I put a volt meter across the leads and found that I was only getting 6.5 volts dc on the 12 volt setting and amp gage of the charger was showing no amps...There were however milliamps moving , there was bubbles coming up indicating the electrolytic action was happening but very slowly......I use lab power supplies..Battery charger wouldnt work very fast if at all..

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:04 pm

maybe a model 14 , with those grips.
didn't the 15s come with magna grips?

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:26 pm

pokey wrote:maybe a model 14 , with those grips.
didn't the 15s come with magna grips?

Usually the model 14 has a Patridge front sight and the model 15 has a ramp front sight.
I believe that Magnas were standard on both model 14 and 15s. The grips on that revolver are Magnas, at least they look like they are to me. Mine has targets which could have been ordered on either but are not original to my M15.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:19 am

Evapo-Rust works well. It chemically dissolves iron oxide but leaves iron and steel alone. You can leave the item in it overnight and the next day pull it out and work on it or even drop it in a sonic cleaner and watch the rust just dissolve away from the piece. It's also pretty much non-toxic.

The electrolytic process is, frankly, the best, but if you don't/can't be bothered with that Evapo-Rust works and is available at many auto parts stores.

http://www.amazon.com/Evapo-Rust-ER004- ... =rust+away

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:37 am

Yes- 100 bucks for both.
I like the electrolysis idea. I watched a You tube on removing rust from a cast iron skillet that way but it takes some preparation. The evapo rust and other chemicals sounds pretty simple. My Wife would be happy if I went the Mollasses route ( She don't like them).
Fishing Sinkers !!! the dickens U say Chuck, I'll show Ya.
I think there is no hope for the Charter, notice the trigger gaurd or whats left of it.
Thanks Guys for all the tips.
The ayes have it, must be a 15, thats what I will go with.

Perry

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:29 am

Mescalero wrote:I think it is a S&W Model 15
Do you want to sell it, looks salvageable.

i concur...Model 15...too bad... :(

dogngun · Post by **dogngun** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:43 pm

The gun with the grips IS a S&W Model 15, the .38 Spl Combat Masterpiece...In realistic working condition, they are selling in the $400 area. ( I have one right here next to my Mac....in much better condition, and it has magna grips, too.)

The one without the grips is not a Smith, but probably a Charter Arms Target Bulldog. Not as much class, but still worth the effort to save.
Since you already own them, why not give cleaning them a try...it will keep you interested at least and you might get usable guns out of the deal.
I'd try to save them both, but that Smith would get a lot more effort.

Good luck!

mark

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:06 pm

pwlm,
On gunbroker.com, gun parts kits, page 9, Item # 328896572.
S&W model 15 all the parts you need, you have the frame, everything else is in this item #.
Mescalero

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:56 pm

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:41 pm

30wcf wrote:
Mescalero wrote:I think it is a S&W Model 15
Do you want to sell it, looks salvageable.
i concur...Model 15...too bad...

30wcf, the grips in the top picture (your attachment) are what historically have been called Targets or Target grips, the bottom picture are what I always have thought to be Magnas or Magna grips.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:32 pm

Thx mucho Mescy, they r 2 days out. I will definitly keep an eye on them. I need a rear sight for sure. Now the $10,000 question, how much do I want to put in this Gun.
Perry

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:12 pm

I don't think you can lose, you have the frame; the major component, if you buy that kit, everything else is used, salvagable.
You would have $200.00 in it.
I had a model 15, they are nice guns.
And nothing is going to get cheaper.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:07 pm

Got the parts kit on GB. $136.87 plus $10.00 shipping. I just barely stayed under My $150.00 total.
Perry

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:14 pm

Allright!!!!!!
You rock, we will be waiting for the final results.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:23 pm

pwl44m wrote:Got the parts kit on GB. $136.87 plus $10.00 shipping. I just barely stayed under My $150.00 total.
Perry

day late/dollar short, i was gonna offer you the s&w stainless guts from a model 66.
it would be interestjng to see if they fit.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:14 am

Sorry Pokey, U know U have to move fast on here. That would have been cool if they would work.
Perry

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:00 pm

It's soaking, I bought some Evapo-rust yesterday. Started soaking @ 10:00 am. I think I won't check them tonite. We'll see what it looks like in the morning.
The parts kit should be on the way.
Perry

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:01 pm

I am excited!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:32 pm

Mescalero wrote:I am excited!

Me too -- looking forward to see how this thing turns out

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:05 pm

It would be a hoot to see that thing re-habbed.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:47 pm

I pulled it out of the soak tonite, hosed it down and blew it out with air. The E-vapo rust did a pretty good job. Can't get the grips off- the escutcheon is turning inside the grip panel. Will have to figger out a way to keep it from turning. The two exsposed screws in the side plate came right out as did the thumb push for the cylinder release. Got the cylinder swung out and free and spinning. Even got the cylinder and crane off the frame. The trigger and hammer works but won't go to full cock and release.The hand turns the cylinder and all springs seem to be working fine as everything returns to position. Will work on it some more tommorow and try to get some pics. This may turn into a working Gun after all.
The Saga continues-- Perry

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:24 am

I have high hopes, does the frame look like it will clean up, not perfect; just clean up?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:26 am

Third screw is under the grips.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:38 am

Grip screws and ferules can be had, if you're trying to save the grips drill the screw out from the non slotted side as you hold it with a screwdriver on the other side.

I too would like to see some before and after pics.

Joe

2571 · Post by **2571** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:41 am

Mescalero wrote:It would be a hoot to see that thing re-habbed.

Recently had one cerakoted zombie green with red blood splatter. Every bit a beater as top pistol in OP.

Functions adequately. Definitely not a SD gun for carry.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:21 pm

Well Guys after a few hours in the Gun room this S&W would fire if I had the guts. Took a couple pics after I got the side plate off. One pic shows a pair of forceps holding the escutceon to get the screw out. Popped the side plate off and it looked nasty but it was mostly the soak solution. I only lost one part upon reassembly, a little teeny plunger for the cylinder realease. Had to make one and it functions properly. Put it all back together and it seems to work like it shoud. I have a bottle of cold blue handy so I smeared some on and it took like flys to honey.
BTW it is a mod 15-3 -- the designation is mod 15 combat masterpiece. I almost wish I hadn't ordered those other parts but it would be mighty rough looking the way the cylinder & barrel are pitted. Message from GB today says My parts are on the way.
It took a little work to get the cylinder honed out to accept ammo but as U can see they fit and fall out nicely. It was amazing how well everything looked on the inside, screws and springs were perfect- no rust or pitting on anything. I guess where air couldn' get to it saved it from rust.
This will beMy first attempt at posting a video so hope it works. also a couple pics.
Thx to Mescalero, He was my Inspiration to get on this thing as well as the rest of You Guys.
Perry

well the video file was too large, will see if I can just do 2 trigger pulls and see if itis small enough.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:18 pm

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:27 pm

Perry, looks like you got yourself a good shooter, you'er doing good.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:01 pm

Yes, he is.