Pilots: a hop in a mosquito

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:33 pm

mission:

hop into DH Mosquito KA114

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8

form up with vampire and spit

debrief here.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:38 pm

I had to look them up. Sort of a mini-DC-3?

gcburt · Post by **gcburt** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:44 pm

Grizz wrote:mission: hop into DH Mosquito KA114

One of these?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:55 pm

SO SORRY

FLY HERE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8

mmmm eeeerrrr 2nd thing to go.... merrffffffff

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:12 pm

BlaineG wrote:Sort of a mini-DC-3?

no, those are twin RR Merlins - two of the engines that powered a Spirfire or Mustang.
For most of WWII, it was the fastest aircraft in the sky.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:21 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Sort of a mini-DC-3?
no, those are twin RR Merlins - two of the engines that powered a Spirfire or Mustang.
For most of WWII, it was the fastest aircraft in the sky.

Thanks! I don't know of such things, but, I would have said the Mustang was the fastest. I heard it could break the sound barrier in a dive.

jshinal · Post by **jshinal** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:46 pm

BlaineG wrote: Thanks! I don't know of such things, but, I would have said the Mustang was the fastest.
I heard it could break the sound barrier in a dive.

Not *quite* correct, though it was a confused subject at the time. The Mustang, the Thunderbolt and the Lightning fighters were all fast enough in the dive that their airspeed gauges gave crazy readings and the compression of the airflow made them super hard to pull out of those howling dives. As you might imagine, the sound barrier seemed like a pretty plausible explanation for all that strangeness.

But as for the Mosquito - imagine this :

You're sitting between two Rolls-Royce V12 engines, each is 1650 cubic inches capacity, four times the size of a big block musclecar engine. The V12s have giant superchargers howling at 21,000 rpm and pushing a 6.5lb boost into each engine. Each engine is burning 100 octane racing fuel and producing around 1700 horsepower each. The left-side engine is only about 7 feet from your ear. They have straight tuned headers and no mufflers.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:16 pm

dry weight of Mustang was 12,000 lbs.
dry weight of Spitfire was 11,000 lbs.
dry weight of Mosquito was 14,000 lbs, but it had the both the engines from the other two.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:30 pm

Beaut of a craft. Last one I saw was over twenty years ago. I heard it way before I saw it but I knew what was coming! You can not mistake a Merlin! Timber frame (IIRC).

N.

samb · Post by **samb** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:35 pm

The Mosquito was made with a mostly out of plywood, which made a very low drag wing and airframe. Met a lady many years ago who lost her husband test flying one near Montreal in WW II.

Thanks for sharing a wonderful video. What a great restoration.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:43 pm

samb wrote:The Mosquito was made with a mostly out of plywood, which made a very low drag wing and airframe. Met a lady many years ago who lost her husband test flying one near Montreal in WW II.

If IRC the escape hatch was underneath. A bellied one on fire was bad news!

N.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:03 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmY99snA_po

some more mosquito lore

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

Multirole plane.

Started out as a fast light bomber. Turned into a night fighter, ground-attack and strike aircraft (ship attacks, strafing convoys, etc) with the four 20mm option in the belly.

As a light bomber it carried out precision strikes and was fast enough to outrun everything. A Mosquito flew up the Champs Elysees and bombed the Gestapo headquarters in Paris, and others bombed the wall of a prison to let prisoners escape along with many other crazy missions.

And the whole thing was made out of wood...... which was why they loved making it into a reconnaisance bird. High altitude, hard to detect on radar, and fast.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:23 pm

Nath wrote:Timber frame (IIRC).

N.

no, not the frame. The frame was aluminum and steel - the skin was laminated glue/wood - it was a high-tech process using a reduced amount of critical materials.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:31 pm

It just occurred to me....In a turn, did the outside engine turn faster than the inside engine, and was that a problem that had to be compensated for?

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:34 pm

multi-engines can steer with aileron, rudder, or throttle.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:50 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:
Nath wrote:Timber frame (IIRC).

N.
no, not the frame. The frame was aluminum and steel - the skin was laminated glue/wood - it was a high-tech process using a reduced amount of critical materials.

Thanks.

N.

harry · Post by **harry** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:08 pm

When it entered service in April 1941, the wood-framed Mosquito was one of the fastest production aircraft in the world, capable of almost 400 mph. Astonishingly, this little fighter-bomber bested the Hawker Hurricane and matched the speed of the Supermarine Spitfire.

The fuselage of the Mosquito was made of balsa wood sandwiched between layers of cedar plywood, while the rest of the airframe was constructed of plywood covered spruce. It was an unusual construction technique, but the incorporation of wood instead of scarce metal ensured that the unorthodox design reached production.

The Mosquito was about 4th on the speed list of the time with the P47M and P51D being the fastest until the F8F came along its top speed level flight was over 500 mph
http://plane.spottingworld.com/De_Havilland_Mosquito

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:14 pm

harry wrote:When it entered service in April 1941, the wood-framed Mosquito was one of the fastest production aircraft in the world, capable of almost 400 mph. Astonishingly, this little fighter-bomber bested the Hawker Hurricane and matched the speed of the Supermarine Spitfire.

The fuselage of the Mosquito was made of balsa wood sandwiched between layers of cedar plywood, while the rest of the airframe was constructed of plywood covered spruce. It was an unusual construction technique, but the incorporation of wood instead of scarce metal ensured that the unorthodox design reached production.

The Mosquito was about 4th on the speed list of the time with the P47M and P51D being the fastest until the F8F came along its top speed level flight was over 500 mph
http://plane.spottingworld.com/De_Havilland_Mosquito

And most of the spruce used in their construction came from my backyard. (literally)

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:37 pm

If I remember right, due to its wood construction, it could absorb alot of flak and gunfire and still be serviceable. Made it a pretty tough plane.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:46 pm

DC3?????
Without a doubt my alltime favorite aircraft. Saw the last british one fly before I came to the states in 1984 I think. When it first came out it was 20 or 25mph faster than the spit. Balsa wood and ply sandwich for the fuselage.Wood frame/bulkheads, were inserted into the half shell and the two halves of the fuselage were glued together. One piece wing, all wood, epoxy glued(early type) and screwed together. Stabilizer, rudder and elevators were fabric covered. Early version was about 360mph, then rose to a peak of about 425mph with a high altitude nightfighter . With a modified bomb bay could carry a 4,000lb bomb. A few were fitted with a 6lb molins cannon, then converted to carry 8 60lb rockets for coastal command. Just about every type of armament were fitted to these aircraft at one time or another. Also used for photo recon and running war supplies and dropping off resistance fighters.The mosquito set all kinds of records, both speed and altitude.
My friends father worked on the mosquito development upto the time it was phased out. He was there for the first twin engine landing on an aircraft carrier...HMS Defatigable. During trials for the landing the arrestor gear and fuselage was damaged and had to be reinforced. I think the mosquito suffered the lowest aircrew loss of the ww2 fighters and bombers. The most dangerous part was taking off with a full load. Engine failure before reaching climb speed was the pilots worst nightmare. Alot of aircraft were lost this way.
An amazing aircraft design.
the dh Hornet was to be the replacement for the mosquito. A single seater fighter primarily. Similar to the mozzy but smaller and more powerful. Speed was 488mph.
Anther aircraft worth taking a look at is the English electric lightening. Lots of performance for a 50's jet.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:53 pm

I apologize - I looked it up both fuselage and wing frames were spruce laminate. Apparently only the ailerons and engine mounts were all metal, metal structural support, principally all the triaxial joints - that is, wing joints, control joints, landing gear.
The fastest, MkVIII, btw, had top speed of 436 mph

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:12 am

In the mid 1960s I was a member of a flying club with mostly lockheed employees. One was a englishman that told me he flew mosquitos durring the war. He told me he always had the right a way over other planes on the field as they would boil over quick waiting and ideling around. He gave me a pretty good workout once checking me out in a luscomb. I have long ago forgot his name but someone told me he had straffed a german command car killing one of their famous generals.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:22 am

Mosquitoes were also the first stealth planes practically invisible to radar due to their wood construction. Love planes they are.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:39 am

I got a lot out of that hop.

It was great to hear the landing gear warning going off as the pilot kept throttling back to stay in formation on the slow pass.
It was great when he throttled up as he approached the field. The props got synched up, the vibration level dropped, and the plane seemed to shoulder up to the sky the way a boat will shoulder up to the sea.

I liked the documentary a lot also. I think I read somewhere that they used a form made of concrete. This was definitely a low-budget operation using materials that were not in demand and sparing those that were. I like the steel tube work. it reminds me of the interior of the troop cargo gliders, especially in the cockpit area. The pilot seat might be armored judging from the strength of the web behind it. Does anyone know?

I once rode in a Cessna twin from Juneau to Seattle. A smaller plane but probably a similar ride. Certainly an order of magnitude above the gooney bird. The best rides always end too soon.

Grizz

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:47 pm

This group in New Zealand flies a Mosquito as well as other classic planes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HAFUVideo/v ... y=mosquito

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:53 pm

Hi Grizz,
Yes the seat back rest is armored as is the windshield. It was good for smaller rounds and shrapnel but not the larger 20mm cannon. The most heavily armored mosquito was used on the coastal command. They were fitted with an extra 1100lbs of armor to protect the aircraft from return fire from ships. The video shows that the aircraft is the fighter version as it has the flat windshield. The bomber version had the split windshield. In both the bomber and fighters, the pilot sat forward of the navigator/bombardier in a staggered seating arrangement. If you noticed in the video, to the right of the main instrument panel, there is an orange colored disc on the firewall. This area on the bomber version was cut out so the bombardier could crawl up front to aim the bombs looking through a 'glass' nose typical of other bombers.
The lightest version was the night fighter. basically they took off everything they didnt need, to gain max. altitude. They even fitted smaller wheels, and got the lightest pilots they could find. They were painted flat black, but the paint slowed the aircraft from drag, so they went back to standard camo. I think these had a top speed of around 440mph. The idea was to get above the enemy, locate them with radar and dive on them. The germans never went that high so it was a solution to a problem that was never needed.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:01 pm

Good info guys.

Flatnose, what is the large dial and pointer near the top of the panel?

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:54 pm

Grizz,
99% sure its the elevator trim. The aircraft is unladen and running a light load of fuel and no ammo, so the tail will be trimmed down. The basic gauges remained in similar positon throughout the variants. I had to check my original pilots note book. but it is a N.F38 and that trim control is moved to the port side control panel along with the rudder trim.
I just took a look at the pilots check list before takeoff. There are 153 items on the list no includingoperational equipment.
Just looking at the crusing performance. With the superchargers in low gear, 10,000' and weight of 20,000lb fuel burn was just under 3nmpg @190 mph. Very efficient even by todays standards.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:02 pm

thank you. how great is that to have the manuals?

do you have numbers on the power off glide? the plane was a heavy lifter but I don't know how much of that was wing and how much was those monster engines.

hopefully Pitchy will build a scaled one with VW engines and
tundra gear. it would make a super beach comber. can mill the spruce into paper thin slices and mold it like those wooden bowls.

Grizz

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:43 pm

No numbers for power off. Think landing speed was 130mph, and one engine landing was 150knots. The mossie needed 155 knots airspeed to climbout on 1 engine. Max engine boost on the 2 stage superchared engines was 18psi in high gear for 5 mins only. During a mission a mossie lost an engine and had to climb for over 30 mins at the high settings to clear a mountain range and then made it back to england. The motor was toast, but the other motor was repaired and put back into service. The R.R merlins had a service life of possibly less than 40 hours treated right. The camshafts wore out, and engine power decreased quickly. You can tell the supercharged engines as they had an extra chin mounted air intake on the lower engine cowling.
p.s. on one of the videos for the NZ mossie it appears that on takeoff the aircraft is nose light, the tail drops a bit and the handling looks mushy. According to the pilots notes I have here, for N.F38 variant at least, the trim should be set level or slightly nose heavy. Also it appears that the pitch control of the props could be better, but hey, who has the experiance at flying one of these? When I first saw the video's, quite honestly, it gave me the jitters. No, I am not a pilot, but just an observation.

oldmossback · Post by **oldmossback** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 pm

If I remember my dad's war stories correctly, during the early part of the war, Goering promised Hitler, no bombers would ever reach Berlin and if they did they would be shot down immediately. So Hitler's crowd decided to have a big parade and speech afterwards. (Hitler was big on speeches....sorta like someone we have in office here). The Brits found out about this thru their intelligence network and wondered what to do.

Note: this was before day light and night bombing by the Allies.

Anyway, about 30 minutes to an hour into the parade, a single Mosquito showed up, at low altitude, circled around for a few minutes and then scampers away. All the while the air raid sirens were wailing and people scampering for cover.

Airplane is gone and everyone crawls out of their holes and go back to see the parade, and then about 40-50 minutes later, another single Mosquito shows up.......again sirens wailing and people running for cover.

This went on most of the day, until they just canceled the parade.
Hitler was upset, Goering was red faced and the Brits were laughing their arrses off..........

Love the Brits, they have such a dark humor...........

Oldmossback

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:01 pm

Gotta love the late night hanger flying. What a great bunch of info. All their deeds are receding into the fog of time, with some legendary supplements to keep memories alive.

Thanks all and good night.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:15 am

There's nothing quite like having two piston motors churning hard right next to you on both sides with the props cutting the air like a buzz saw. They flex and move in their engine mounts as you manhandle the ship through the air and the props are like huge gyros trying to twist the whole thing right off the wing. LOVE IT!! Miss it.

Oly

KiwiKev · Post by **KiwiKev** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

This particular mosquito was restored in New Zealand for an American Museum in North Carolina. it is going to be heading there quite soon. It flew over our house a couple of weeks ago with a Spitfire and a Warhawk (P40 ?) on the way to the Wings over Wairarapa air show. This year has been a big one remembering the US forces coming here during WWII prior to travelling to the Pacific Islands.

http://www.times-age.co.nz/news/band-ma ... l/1415386/

http://www.times-age.co.nz/photos/wings ... /18172/#/8

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:55 am

thanks for the links Kev

great pictures. love the Spits.

I hope the flyers here know that you can buy a Spitfire today, new build. Either as a kit of a flying 2-place plane. That would be a fun camper to explore the thousands of out of the way grass strips.

http://www.spitfirebuilder.4t.com/photo4.html

it uses the Mosquito construction:

http://www.spitfireaircraftco.com/techniques.html

http://www.spitfirebuilder.4t.com/catalog.html

you know you want one

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:48 pm

Here are some pictures taken at Salisbury Hall in the UK where the Mosquito was designed and the prototype built.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:11 pm

olyinaz wrote:There's nothing quite like having two piston motors churning hard right next to you on both sides with the props cutting the air like a buzz saw. They flex and move in their engine mounts as you manhandle the ship through the air and the props are like huge gyros trying to twist the whole thing right off the wing. LOVE IT!! Miss it.

Oly

I know the feeling.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:05 pm

Pitchy wrote:
olyinaz wrote:There's nothing quite like having two piston motors churning hard right next to you on both sides with the props cutting the air like a buzz saw. They flex and move in their engine mounts as you manhandle the ship through the air and the props are like huge gyros trying to twist the whole thing right off the wing. LOVE IT!! Miss it.

Oly
I know the feeling.

Good one Pitchy

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:23 pm

I couldn`t resist that one

sorry olyinaz i have always had that same dream.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:44 pm

N.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:47 pm

That's perfect Pitchy !! Thanks !!