200 gr SWCs in .45 ACP & rubber bullets

[Machado]

Two questions:
1 - My favorite .45 ACP bullet is the RCBS 200 SWC. It weighs 208 grains in my alloy and I push it with 7.2 grains of Unique for 1,000 fps, roughly. The slap is very satisfactory, and it is an adequately accurate load. However, some wizard at the range warned that the 1911's slide flies backward in a hurry under this load, causing premature wear and possible frame cracks. I've been shooting this thing for over 15 years with no negative effects save dinging the cases, which is par for the course. What say ye? Any truth to this?
2 - Rubber bullets are not available in this country. Does anybody have any experience in making their own? I intend to use them in a S&W M-1950 .45 ACP revolver.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
Antonio

[Hobie]

Two questions:
1 - My favorite .45 ACP bullet is the RCBS 200 SWC. It weighs 208 grains in my alloy and I push it with 7.2 grains of Unique for 1,000 fps, roughly. The slap is very satisfactory, and it is an adequately accurate load. However, some wizard at the range warned that the 1911's slide flies backward in a hurry under this load, causing premature wear and possible frame cracks. I've been shooting this thing for over 15 years with no negative effects save dinging the cases, which is par for the course. What say ye? Any truth to this?
2 - Rubber bullets are not available in this country. Does anybody have any experience in making their own? I intend to use them in a S&W M-1950 .45 ACP revolver.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
Antonio

I have only ever made wax "bullets" for .38 Special. That load you're using with the 200 gr. SWC is just .2 gr. more than one I used with my own 1911s with the 200 gr. Hornady CT bullet which is jacketed. It does move on out. I haven't had any problems with my guns either.

[Machado]

Thanks, Hobie. That RCBS bullet has two lube grooves, I cast it at BHN 22-23, no leading at all. My lube is an antiquated and very hard beeswax + carnaúba wax + beef tallow + graphite mix. The bullet should accelerate faster down the barrel than your jacketed bullets, so I'd expect slide reaction to be brisker too.
Antonio

[Rusty]

There was a thread on castboolit.com at one time about making "glue" bullets. IIRC they were basically injecting hot melt glue into a bullet mould and shooting the resulting projectile as a rubber bullet using only a primer for the push.
Back in the 70's I had some hard plastic bullets that I think were made by Speer that worked just fine with only a primer.

[J Miller]

Machado,

Back in the late 70s 7.2grs of Unique under a 200gr H&G #68 bullet was THE high performance .45 ACP hand load.
Most people that used it made sure to keep the recoil spring changed frequently.
That load was if I remember correctly within the Hercules max load of the day. Please don't quote me on that cos my old Hercules books are boxed away and I can't verify it.

I can tell you from personal observation that one fellow I knew well who used this load in his 1911s cracked two frames with it.
One a Combat Commander, and the other a full size 1911. So yes, it can be damaging to frames.

Joe

[Machado]

Thanks, Joe. My Unique is the old type, I have the Hercules book and your information is the same as mine. I think I'd better cut back on the charge or switch to the "standard" 225 gr RN bullet.
Best,
Antonio

[J Miller]

Machado,

I don't know if you can get Win 231 or HP38 where you are, but the best, most accurate, factory equivalent 225/230 gr lead bullet load I've used in my ACPs was 5.1grs of 231. Side by side with factory ball ammo I couldn't feel, hear, or see in the bullet impacts, any difference at all.

It's still my go-to load for the 225 / 230 RNL bullets.

Joe

[Hobie]

Thanks, Hobie. That RCBS bullet has two lube grooves, I cast it at BHN 22-23, no leading at all. My lube is an antiquated and very hard beeswax + carnaúba wax + beef tallow + graphite mix. The bullet should accelerate faster down the barrel than your jacketed bullets, so I'd expect slide reaction to be brisker too.
Antonio

Yes, I think you're right about that.

[Machado]

Rusty, is the glue bullet made of the glue used in hot glue guns or silicone?
Thank you,
Antonio

[Machado]

Joe, no Win 231 or HP38 is to be found here. I have to make do with the local stuff. I still have a pound or so of old Unique and some Red Dot, and no hopes of inventory replenishment here.
Antonio

[Chuck 100 yd]

I shoot 4.6 gr. Red Dot under an RCBS 230 gr. cast bullet in my Ruger SR 1911.
An accurate load the functions and feeds very well.

With hotter loads I would go with a heavier recoil spring. The factory spring is 16#.

[Catshooter]

That is a nice load. If you're just punching paper with it though and components are expensive/tough to get I'd cut back just to conserve. The Red Dot will do the trick nicely.

Yes, it's just the normal hot glue, not silicone. I've not tried it but it sounds like it worked well.


Cat

[TedH]

Rusty, is the glue bullet made of the glue used in hot glue guns or silicone?
Thank you,
Antonio

Yep hot glue guns work great. I "cast" and shot some out my 1911. They did pretty good at across the room distances.

[BigSky56]

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/489581 ... -box-of-50 danny

[Machado]

Chuck,I found Red Dot to be more heat-sensitive than other powders. When shooting out in the open, spare magazines on your person exposed to the sun will cause substantial burn rate differences. This does not happen when it's cold (~ 65F is cold down here). This is a very warm country and Red Dot does not seem to like it. This does not happen with Unique, though. I have tried 4.5 grs Red Dot with Lyman's 225 LRN and results were less than optimal compared to Unique. I have replaced the springs on all my 1911s with 18# (so they say) Imbel springs.
Antonio

[Machado]

Thanks, Catshooter. I think I'll try the glue gun in an old .38 SPL mould I no longer use. I'll hunt for the how-to in the Cast Boolits site.
Antonio

[Machado]

Thank you, BigSky56. I'll check on the requirements to have this product exported to Brazil.
Antonio

[M. M. Wright]

There is a rubber "buffer" that can be installed in your 1911 just for cushioning the slam of the slide on the frame. Has to replaced every few thousand rounds. This, together with a heavier spring and I have shot hundreds of thousands of rounds of HG 68 over 5.5 231. Only have one of the guns I used in IPSC left and it has only about 50K through it so it's doing fine. I think the buffer is essential for people who shoot a lot.

[Machado]

Thank you, M. M. Wright, I've been using these buffers for a few years and they do cushion slide battering. I'll try the new ones made of silicone now. The ones I have are made of some sort of fiber and don't stand too long.
Antonio

[Charles]

Back in the early 60's I did some damage to a good 1911A1 with a cast 200 SWC and enough Unique to drive the bullet 1K fps. So, I learned my lesson almost 50 years ago about this.

I am a very big fan of the 1911 pistol and have owned a couple of dozen over the years. I now have three and have come to some hard and fast rules for me. Others can do as they wish.

1. I don't like recoil springs more than 18 lbs.
2. I don't like recoil buffers and I have had them come apart and tie up the gun or several occasions
3. The pistol works best and lives the longest when kept close to John Brownings original notions. It is a great handgun, but trying to make it do things it was not designed to good is often the source of problems and grief.
4. The 200 cast SWC is a good bullet and is accurate for field work. I run this bullet in the 850-875 fps range and find it has plenty of powder for me.
5. Bulleye is my powder of choice, but I do use some AA5 because I have quite a bit of it. 231 us also a good powder, but I keep much of it around the shop.

[Machado]

Charles, that is exactly what I am doing and I'm glad I asked the Forum for advice before I wrecked one or all my 1911s. The load I've been using was recommended to me by friend the late Col. Jeff Cooper, who seemed to believe that any defense round should have enough oomph and slap to debone the object of the exercise.
I've never had problems with my 18# springs. Since I'll return to factory-specification loads, I'll watch for failures to feed because of the heavier spring. Should this happen, I would immediate return to the 16# original spring.
Ditto for the buffers. There was one case, however, when the buffer seemed to disintegrate under the action of a molybdenum disulphide-based oil. I have since retired this oil, and no further problems appeared. I am now switching to silicone buffers.
Indeed, the 200 gr SWC bullet is quite accurate and when properly loaded will present no feeding issues. I'll cut back on my powder charge before it's too late.
Thank you
Antonio

[Catshooter]

When searching Cast Boolits for the hot glue bullets, you might also try under "Gluetts" or Gluitts".


Cat

[Machado]

Catshooter, I just found that my wife's hot glue gun sticks measure exactly .451" in diameter. I will do some midnight requisitioning and experiment with these. Thank you.
Antonio

[Catshooter]

Ha! Don't even need to cast 'em! Sweet.

Just so you know, there is considerable difference in power between a pistol and a rifle primer. I once was building fire-lapping rounds for a friends 45-70. I was having trouble with my set up and I was pretty sure I had missed getting powder in at least two of the cases. I did half the loading with pistol primers, half with rifle.

Sure enough when I got to shooting I discovered I'd missed powder in two, one rifle primed one pistol. The pistol primer round pushed the 500 grain bullet about six inches down the bore, the one with the rifle primer pushed it's bullet almost out the muzzle of the 22" barrel.

Good luck and report back, would ya?


Cat