Load from Disk help for 25-35

[BenT]

Well a new year is here and I was looking at the gun project options for the year. One of them is my 25-35 . I was thinking about reaming it out to 25 Rem(rimmed of course) or 25-35 AI. Based on the water capacities the 25 Rem has 19% more capacity and the AI has 28%. So I was wondering if someone here with the software could run some numbers for me. Earl might already have them.

I've been playing with the new LVR powder which they have data for the 75gr Fp . But I've been using 87 gr sierra , because I have a bunch of them from purchasing some reloading stuff. Not trying to make a power house here , I just believe the 30-30 case is very efficient and straightening the case walls of the 25-35 to a least equal the 30-30 will help with case life and gain a little velocity to boot.

So if anyone wants to run data for the 25-35, 25 Rem, and 25-35 AI using both Sierra 87 and 100 gr soft points using LVR and a handful of other medium burning powders would be great. Thanks and Happy New Year Gun Projects !

[Mescalero]

Been trying tp prioritize projects for 2013 all day, guess it will depend on what the morons come with legally.

[william iorg]

I don’t shoot the 87-grain bullets, I prefer the 75-grain Sierras.
I don’t know what barrel you have. If you have a TC barrel you probably have experienced sticky case extraction when loading above the mild published data.
I have a 24” TC barrel reamed for the 25-35AI. I regularly shoot the 100-grain bulk Remington JSP bullets with good accuracy up to 2,900 fps. I have no extraction difficulty.
Alliant Reloder 15 is my powder of choice.
These are high pressure but I have good case life. I use a cOAL of 2.750 for the 100-grain bullets.
35.5 and 36.0 grains of Reloder 15 deliver the high velocity with excellent accuracy.
33.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 will deliver the same performance as will 30.0 grains of Reloder 10X.
The 117-grain Hornady round nose bullet will top 2,800 fps using 40.0 grains of IMR 4350.
I use a COAL of 2.550” for the 117-grain bullets.
These loads are all from reformed 30-30 brass.

[3leggedturtle]

Ben; I have have Hornady 257JDJ DIES AND 100 NIB 225Win brass if you need an alternate choice

[earlmck]

Ben, as soon as you improve the case capacity of the 25/35 you get more into slow powder territory than medium; at least you get past where LVR is a good option. And QuickLoad doesn't have LVR in its database yet, unless something has occurred that I hadn't heard about (which is possible).

If you want to tell me what sort of pressure range you want I can run you some numbers for comparison purposes. As in -- is this for an old Win 94 or for a Contender?

[BenT]

Ben; I have have Hornady 257JDJ DIES AND 100 NIB 225Win brass if you need an alternate choice

Todd did you buy Dies and Brass for a caliber you don't have? I would never do that. OK maybe on occasion that happens.

The 25-35 I shoot is a 1920's barrel on a late 60's receiver. This project could go different ways. I was thinking that reaming out to 25 Rem would allow me to fireform 25-35 brass and not split the shoulder. The mistake I made was that I traded off my model 14 in 25 Rem before filling down the rim on a 25-35 and fireforming it to see if it would split the shoulder. The model 14 bore was too corroded and wouldn't shoot above 1200 fps without key holeing. So I'm either going to ream out my existing barrel to 25 Rem or if I do 25-35 AI I will probably get a new barrel with a 1 in 10 twist.

Earl with the 25-35 stick with 40K Cup. With the straighter wall of the 25 rem and 25 -35 AI I would go to 42K cup. That would give max points to reference. I would appreciate that.

Slim thanks for the AI info , I always reference your info at the shooters forum. The variable is the 25 Rem data, If I can fire form 25-35 brass and keep the correct headstamp would be great. I've been looking for a pre 64 project 94 cheap enough to put this older barrel on just so it looks right. That would be my end goal.

As far as other projects . My son wants a AR 15 , so I said the only way I would get one is if we build one. I've had a kit on back order since November and I'm sure it might take all year to show up. But I ordered it through Midway and they don't bill your credit card till it ships. So right now I have some funds to play with, unless the brown truck shows up with a package.

Thanks Gentlemen

[william iorg]

Ben,
I am a 25-35 fan as you know. For a start stick with the standard 25-35 and use IMR 4320, Alliant Reloder 15 and 10x with the 100 grain Speer JHP. I feed the Speer bullet through the magazine on my Model 94AE but you will have to look for your self.
What the 25-35 needs is a good quality flat nose 100-grain bullet.
With modern powder 2,500 fps is no problem with no extraction problems and no indication of high pressure.
You probably know I want a 25-35 Tomcat but the performance of the standard 25-35 in the Model 94 is so good, I have not moved forward.
The problem is if you have more than one 25-35. I load the hollow point only for the single shot AI and the Model 94AE. For the standard 25-35 Thompson Center I only load cast or spitzer bullets
The standard 25-35 is worth exploring.

[3leggedturtle]

Had planned on having my 256WM Contender carbine barrel rechmbered to 257JDJ. But is too accurate to mess with.

[BenT]

Ben,
The standard 25-35 is worth exploring.

I'm not giving up on the 25-35. Just a normal guy thinking about ballistics and such. I already have 25 Rem dies and the 25 Rem cartridge taper is close to the 30-30 and should cycle through the action just fine and give me a little more capacity. So one , needs to think about these things. Not on a daily basis , but almost.

[william iorg]

Several years ago I loaded for the 25 Remington. Not a lot but enough to know I like the cartridge with 100-grain bullets. I still have a form die and the loading dies.
With the new AR cartridges based on the case I am hoping to someday pick up a bolt gun and have it barreled to 25 Remington with a slow twist barrel for 75- to 100-grain bullets. Greg Mushial had a slow twist 25-35 and his rifle would shoot the light bullets very well.
[EDIT] for that "bit more" case capacity add the .25 Bellum and the 25-35 Tomcat to your figuring.
Like you, always thinking of ways to spend money and time!

[Bill in Oregon]

Ben: Go over to Gunblast.com and check Jeff Quinn's review of the USRAC .25-35 that came out just as the doors were closing. He found AA 2460 got him some more speed with OK pressures.

[Mescalero]

.25 Bullberry.

[earlmck]

The trouble with most of the "Improved" cartridges is that they invariably blow the shoulder forward and shorten the neck. No problem for jacketed bullets, but if shooting cast bullets is any consideration it can be a big deal. And that is the nice thing about the standard 25 Remington: a fair increase in case capacity over the 25/35 and still has a beautiful long neck if you want to shoot castys without the base of the bullet sticking down into the powder room.

But then again, if you've had as poor luck as I've had getting a decent barrel in a 25 Remington, maybe shooting cast bullets isn't a very big consideration anyway (I'm 0 for 3 in finding a bright 25 Rem barrel at this point).

[BenT]

Thanks Earl , got your data.

I was looking for 25 Rem in a model 14 for about 4 years. Never seen one. Then I was at a gunshow about 100 miles from my house. One of the first tables I came to had one and I bought it for $275. I was happy as all get out until have way through the show I came across another one with a perfect bore. I already blew my cash and had to walk away. The guy who had the gun only lived about 10 miles from me. I called him on the following Monday to deal on it but he had sold it. The one I did get went down the road because I couldn't get it to shoot. It did fund a nice 1907 Winchester that shoots great.

[Glenn]

Several years ago (and I don't even remember where) I found a post about forming 30-30 brass to 25-35, and this shooter found that Winchester brass was MUCH better than Fed or Rem - virtually no neck wrinkles/splits.
Glenn

[Jsmyers]

Ben: Go over to Gunblast.com and check Jeff Quinn's review of the USRAC .25-35 that came out just as the doors were closing. He found AA 2460 got him some more speed with OK pressures.

Here is a link; he used AA 2460 with a Remington 86 gr, a Sierra 75 gr HP, and the 117 gr Hornady RN:
http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester_25-35.htm

Any idea if he was completely winging it with this powder, or if he started from some other data source? I've seen incomplete quotations of the Accurate Loading Guide #2 that had data for the 25-35. But 2460 was not in it. Is 2460 a newer powder than this Guide? The online PDF Accurate has doesn't have any 25-35 information. The loads listed for their other powders are quite a bit slower. EDIT: The answer was in the article:

I found that one of the best powders for improved performance in this cartridge is AA2460 from Accurate Arms. I found no data at all for this powder, even from the Accurate Arms data manual. However, it turned in a stellar performance for velocity and shot to shot consistency in the test rifle.

Over the last month, I've collected almost 550 25-35 reloading "data points," though many are incomplete. That load (2471 fps) is the fastest I've ever seen quoted for a 25-35 and a 117 gr. This is especially impressive considering it is in a 20" barrel, and most of the loads over 2350 fps were in 24" barrels.

You might want to read through this, focusing on the posts by Greg Mushial: http://www.shootersforum.com/handloadin ... loads.html

You might be able to gain something useful from this as well (linked somewhere on the above thread): http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm The fastest he got with a 86 gr. bullet was 2902 fps (in a 1 in 16" twist 22" barrel), but felt that load was too hot.

I was thinking that I might be able to compare the loads with the same powder for the 75 gr Speer and the 86 gr Remington, but other than Jeff Quin's, I don't have many that you can compare. These, for Benchmark, Varget, H322, H335, and H4895, might help you project 75 gr. data into a slightly heavier bullet (sorry that the tabs don't display correctly). They are mostly from Greg Mushial and William Iorg. Note that some of these charges were found to have higher pressures than desired. More complete notes can be found in the Shooters Forum thread:

Gr. Blt Man. Pwd Man. Powder Brrl/twst grns fps CUP Source
75 Speer Hodgdon Benchmark 24 8 21.0 2305 28,600 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Speer Hodgdon Benchmark 24 8 23.0 2502 36,400 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 20 8 21.0 2009 http://www.shootersforum.com/142119-post3.html
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 22 16 21.0 2005 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 20 8 23.0 2235 http://www.shootersforum.com/142119-post3.html
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 22 16 23.0 2198 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 20 8 25.0 2460 http://www.shootersforum.com/142119-post3.html
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 22 16 25.0 2401 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 20 8 27.0 2849 http://www.shootersforum.com/142119-post3.html
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 22 16 27.0 2631 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 20 8 27.0 2656 http://www.shootersforum.com/142119-post3.html ***
86 Remington Hodgdon Benchmark 22 16 29.0 2828 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm

75 Speer Hodgdon H4895 24 8 25.0 2471 32,000 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Speer Hodgdon H4895 24 8 27.4 2689 36,500 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
86 Remington Hodgdon H4895 22 16 29.0 2736 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm

75 Speer Hodgdon Varget 24 8 26.5 2487 29,800 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Speer Hodgdon Varget 24 8 29.0 2672 36,300 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Hornady Hodgdon Varget 20 8 29.0 2671 http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/01/ ... am_100307/
86 Remington Hodgdon Varget 22 16 30.0 2721 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon Varget 22 16 32.0 2860 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm

75 Speer Hodgdon H322 24 8 21.0 2256 25,900 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Speer Hodgdon H322 24 8 23.5 2543 35,900 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
86 Remington Hodgdon H322 22 16 21.0 2036 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H322 22 16 22.5 2199 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H322 22 16 24.0 2364 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H322 22 16 25.5 2539 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H322 22 16 27.0 2706 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm

75 Speer Hodgdon H335 24 8 23.0 2440 31,000 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
75 Speer Hodgdon H335 24 8 25.5 2595 36,400 http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
86 Remington Hodgdon H335 22 16 25.0 2321 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H335 22 16 26.0 2387 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H335 22 16 27.0 2471 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H335 22 16 28.0 2576 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm
86 Remington Hodgdon H335 22 16 29.0 2648 http://www.gmdr.com/levern/2535-86sp.htm

*** I think this might be a type and should be 28.0 grains, but it is from Mr. Iorg, so perhaps he can clarify.

[BenT]

Jsmyers, you put a lot effort in all that response. I was familiar with that data except for the GMDR . It was good info with the 86gr. . I haven't chronied any loads yet .But after looking at that info I will have to try some of those loads. I usually don't do much load development in the winter , but I might have to fit some in.

[Jsmyers]

Here is a link; he used AA 2460 with a Remington 86 gr, a Sierra 75 gr HP, and the 117 gr Hornady RN:
http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester_25-35.htm

Any idea if he was completely winging it with this powder, or if he started from some other data source? I've seen incomplete quotations of the Accurate Loading Guide #2 that had data for the 25-35. But 2460 was not in it. Is 2460 a newer powder than this Guide? The online PDF Accurate has doesn't have any 25-35 information. The loads listed for their other powders are quite a bit slower. EDIT: The answer was in the article:

I contacted them and they emailed me their recommendations. Please note that the info they provided me was for a lesser max charge with a 86 and 117 grain but a greater charge with a 75 grain than Jeff Quinn wrote. I'll copy the 75 and 86 grain info here:

Caliber: .25-35 Winchester.
Bullet diam: .257”/6.528 mm
Barrel length: 24”
Pressure Spec: <44,236 Psi /3050 bar

Accurate -- 5744®.
Bullet weight: 75 grains (lead)
Start load: 18.0 grains (2550 -2650 Fps)
Maximum load: 20.0 grains (2800 -2900 Fps)
Bullet weight: 85/87 grains (lead)
Start load: 17.0 grains (2275 - 2375 Fps)
Maximum load: 19.0 grains (2550-2650 Fps)

Accurate -- 2015®
Bullet weight: 75 grains
Start load: 25.6 grains (2550 -2650 Fps)
Maximum load: 28.5 grains (2800 -2900 Fps)
Bullet weight: 87 grains
Start load: 23.0 grains (2275 - 2375 Fps)
Maximum load: 25.5 grains (2550-2650 Fps)

Accurate -- 2230®
Bullet weight: 75 grains
Start load: 26.6 grains (2600 -2700 Fps)
Maximum load: 29.5 grains (2950 -3050 Fps)
Bullet weight: 87 grains
Start load: 23.9 grains (2400 - 2500 Fps)
Maximum load: 26.5 grains (2650-2750 Fps)

Accurate -- 2460®
Bullet weight: 75 grains
Start load: 28.4 grains (2600 -2700 Fps)
Maximum load: 31.5 grains (2950 -3050 Fps)
Bullet weight: 87 grains
Start load: 24.7 grains (2400 - 2500 Fps)
Maximum load: 27.5 grains (2650-2750 Fps)

Accurate -- 2520®
Bullet weight: 75 grains
Start load: 29.6 grains (2600 -2700 Fps)
Maximum load: 33.0 grains (2950 -3050 Fps)
Bullet weight: 87 grains
Start load: 26.9 grains (2400 - 2500 Fps)
Maximum load: 29.5 grains (2650-2750 Fps)

Accurate -- 2495®
Bullet weight: 75 grains
Start load: 28.4 grains (2600 -2700 Fps)
Maximum load: 31.5 grains (2950 -3050 Fps)
Bullet weight: 87 grains
Start load: 25.2 grains (2400 - 2500 Fps)
Maximum load: 28.0 grains (2650-2750 Fps)

[windy]

Not to be stirrin' up old troubles, but I gotta mention the great results I been gettin' with that new CFE 223 powder in my 26" 1894. 26 grains under that Hornady 117gr RN gets me a no-pressure-signs load that shoots as tight as the factory Winchester gray or white box and prints 'em just about 1" higher at 100 yards. I can't do that good with any of the other published loads without sticky extraction. By the way, did y'all know that Nosler useta make a roundnosed partition 100gr in .257? Fella sent me some; think I'll take 'em deer hunting after I work up a 100gr load using something less scarce than these few.
Mind yer topknots!
windy