OT - Crosswind (155MPH?) Landing Attempt (Video)

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Yup, I'm OT again. Thought the plane buffs would get a kick out of this. Follow the article link for a video clip that's pretty amazing.

The pilot sure could have used some of those steerable wheels like the B52's.
Tom

(From other articles: the pilot had to chance the landing due to fuel considerations. Alternate airfields were either closed or trying to get their their own aircraft down due to this big storm.)

Better Video Link

German Passenger Jet Just Avoids Crash

A German passenger jet carrying 137 people has had a narrow escape in an incident reminiscent of the Heathrow crash landing in January.

Gale-force crosswinds tilted the Lufthansa plane around 30 degrees as its wheels touched down at Hamburg Airport, causing one wing to hit the runway.

Amateur footage of the accident that emerged this morning showed the A320 from Munich wheeling wildly across the runway, before the pilot abandoned the landing and took off again.

"Those few seconds were indescribable," one passenger told German television station N-TV, after the plane landed successfully at the second attempt.

The airline has paid tribute to the pilot, a 39-year-old named as Oliver A, for keeping his head as the 155mph winds buffeted the plane. The gales are part of the storm system Emma that has been causing damage across central Europe

"He was braced for a difficult landing and quickly brought the situation under control," the Lufthansa spokesman said.

"The damage was not as bad as we expected. The wing was damaged but it could be repaired."

A flight safety expert told the website of the German magazine Der Spiegel that the near-accident was unique in German aviation history.

"It's extreme - I haven't yet seen anything like that at a German airport," Axel Raab said.

Although the incident took place on Saturday it was not reported until this morning, when the footage was posted on the video-sharing website LiveLeak.com

The plane is expected to be back in service later today.

wm · Post by wm » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:09 pm

I betcha there were a lot of people who needed a new set of shorts after that!!!!

I don't think I am a coward but that would have scared the stuff out of me.....& I don't mind saying so!

Wm

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:15 pm

I worked for United Airlines for almost 15 years so I'm still sort of an airplane nut, especially the big stuff. That's a cool video, thanks for sharing. It sure could have been a lot worse.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:22 pm

I saw that on the telly this morning while at the mechanic.

Wild.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:50 pm

OI,

That is a weird coincidence. We saw it too wile leaving the wifes truck at the dealer for service.

I'll be there was a 139 brown stained seats that needed cleaning after that landing.

Joe

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:25 pm

IN '92 I WAS FLYING INTO BOISE TO SPEND A COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH JAT. ABOUT 100 MILES OUTTA BOISE THE UNITED PILOT COMES ON THE INTERCOM AND SAYS WE'RE HEADING INTO HEAVY WINDS. TIGHTEN YOUR SEATBELTS AS TIGHT AS POSSIBLE AND DO NOT UNFASTEN THEM. JUST A MOMENT LATER THE BUFFETING STARTED AND I'VE NEVER FELT THE LIKES OF IT BEFORE OR SINCE. THAT PLANE WAS MOVING IN EVERY DIRECTION ALL AT ONCE, UP, DOWN, BACK AND FORTH, WITH THE TAIL SECTION WHERE I WAS DOING A FIGURE 8 MOTION TO BOOT. IT ALMOST KNOCKED A STEWARDESS OFF HER FEET RIGHT BESIDE ME AND SHE GRABBED FOR THE SEAT ACROSSED THE ISLE FROM ME AND STRAPPED HERSELF IN. WE FINALLY GOT INTO THE LANDING PATTERN AND THAT PILOT ALL BUT BURIED THE PLANE INTO THE RUN WAY AND WE BOUNCED TO BEAT THE BAND AND WE WERE AT QUITE AN ANGLE TO THE RUNWAY WHEN HE GOT IT DOWN TO STAY. AFTER WE GOT TO THE TERMINAL I WAS ABOUT THE FIRST PERSON TO WALK UP FRONT TO EXIT AND THE PILOT WAS STANDING BY THE DOOR TO THE COCKPIT TALKING TO THE STEWARDESSES [ WHO WERE WHITE AS SHEETS, NO FOOLIN'!! ] AND I SAYS " YEP, ANY ONE YOU WALK AWAY FROM IS A GOOD LANDING " AND SHOOK HIS HAND WITH A BIG SMILE. THEN I WHISPERED " WHAT THE HELL WERE THE WINDS WE WERE FLYING INTO ? "
75
NO SHIQ ??
YES, I'LL BE HEARING ABOUT THIS....

I WAS LATER TOLD WE WERE THE LAST PLANE INTO BOISE THAT DAY BECAUSE OF THE HIGH WINDS.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:39 pm

I saw the vid from AOL's site and a few comments to the effect of "what the !@#$ were they thinking trying to land in cross-wind like that?!".

Apparently some people don't realize that it's quite common to land in a cross-wind albeit not one THAT strong.

I think the pilot did a fantastic job of extricating them from that situation and it speaks highly of his skill and training.

That was some eerie stuff though!

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm

I kinda doubt it was a 155 mph wind. The guy shooting the video would have blown away. Maybe 55 mph but surely not 155.

Noah

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:49 pm

Nancy's last flight to MSP had a downdraft hit it @ maybe 10'. Knocked the breath out of her and several others.

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:58 pm

Here is another take on this incident. I don't know what the situation was as to their alternate and remaining fuel on board but he should have gone around before he attempted that very unstable approach. Max demonstrated crosswind limitations are typically around 30 knots. Notice how he pretty much kept a crab into the wind the whole time. He never straightened the aircraft's longitudinal axis with the runway centerline. Correctly done, he should have maintained crab into the wind until approximately 100 feet where he would have used right aileron and left rudder to keep himself on centerline. With no cross controls to keep the a/c on centerline, yawing moment of the fuselage caused the upwind wing to advance, which gave 'advancing wing' lift. He almost lost control at that point. Personally, I would hate to fly an A-320 with a joystick instead of a yoke in that amount of crosswind.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:22 pm

Personally, I would hate to fly an A-320 with a joystick instead of a yoke in that amount of crosswind.

Yeah, me too.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:02 pm

With the approach speeds of the A-320, if the wind was that strong , the nose of the aircraft would have been pointed 70 degrees or so to the right. I would imagine max crosswind component of that aircraft was around 55knots or so. I don't know if they teach the cross controlled landing much anymore, preferring to crab into the wind.

Real interesting video. Pilot did a good job recovering and doing a go-around.

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:27 pm

Thunder50 wrote:With the approach speeds of the A-320, if the wind was that strong , the nose of the aircraft would have been pointed 70 degrees or so to the right. I would imagine max crosswind component of that aircraft was around 55knots or so. I don't know if they teach the cross controlled landing much anymore, preferring to crab into the wind.

Real interesting video. Pilot did a good job recovering and doing a go-around.

I don't think any airline has an aircraft with a max demonstrated crosswind component of 55 knots. You are a little high. 30 knots is more the standard number. "They" still teach cross controlled landings. You never land a transport category aircraft in a crab. He almost busted his butt. He would have been better to have gone around before he got into that situation where he struck the runway with the wingtip. I guarantee you at the hearing with his Chief Pilot they will be asking why he continued an unstable approach.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:38 pm

Noah Zark wrote:I kinda doubt it was a 155 mph wind.

I doubted it as well until I heard it on 2 different outlets and they kept saying it was gusting up to that. No idea what the sustained winds were.

I'm wondering if they original story indicated 155 kmh? I haven't done the conversion yet from kmh to mph.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:27 pm

Let's see - I have to fly out this week, and next week, and the week after...

Thanks Tom!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:32 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:Let's see - I have to fly out this week, and next week, and the week after...

Thanks Tom!

Well I guess you don't want to see the pics I have on my HD of an ANA Cargo (IIRC) 747 doing the wingtip dance, eh?;)

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:35 pm

WOW!!

155 mph? That's major hurricane wind!

The moral of that story is:

"Don't fly when the wind is gusting 155 mph."

Even birds won't try that, ......and they are built by God.

bogie

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:39 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:Let's see - I have to fly out this week, and next week, and the week after...

Thanks Tom!

Come on, Jay, just get a window seat and you'll have a great view down the runway!

Hey seriously, air travel is the safest way to go...

Tom

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:37 am

RAC wrote:"They" still teach cross controlled landings. You never land a transport category aircraft in a crab.

I have been under the impression that side slips with swept wing aircraft is a bad idea, because the downwind wing would be unable to produce sufficient lift in that circumstance. (stall, flip) Lots of crosswind jet landing videos on that website, they look to me like they all crab down to the last moment, then try to kick it straight right before touchdown.

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:45 am

claybob86 wrote:
RAC wrote:"They" still teach cross controlled landings. You never land a transport category aircraft in a crab.
I have been under the impression that side slips with swept wing aircraft is a bad idea, because the downwind wing would be unable to produce sufficient lift in that circumstance. (stall, flip) Lots of crosswind jet landing videos on that website, they look to me like they all crab down to the last moment, then try to kick it straight right before touchdown.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. No you don't fly an approach all the way down in a side slip. But at around 150-100 feet you do lower the wing into the wind and use opposite rudder. This guy never attempted any side slip maneuver.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:07 am

don TomÃ¡s wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:Let's see - I have to fly out this week, and next week, and the week after...

Thanks Tom!
Come on, Jay, just get a window seat and you'll have a great view down the runway! Hey seriously, air travel is the safest way to go...

Tom

I feel soooo much better now!

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:40 pm

Looking at the video again, it appears that he might have kicked in some left rudder, just before he expected touchdown. Doesn't look like he dropped the right wing, but it is possible that a gust of wind might have picked up the right wing

RAC, just guessing on what the max crosswind component would be on the A-320. Biggest thing I have flown is a Cessna 337 Skymaster and IIRC, the max crosswind component for it was around 30knots.

Growing up in Oklahoma, I think there were very few landings I made that didn't have some crosswing component to them!

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:06 pm

Sideslip would be very dangerous particularity in that situation. Once you had to abort the landing then have to "uncross" the controls to regain normal flight control at very low altitude.
IMHO.... He crabbed it in well on final..... straightened up alittle too high either because: he mis-judged the altitude, the plane developed more lift because of the return to normal landing config; windspeed increased; or he did not factor in the change in ground effect when aircraft returned to normal landing config.

In any case....nice job of recovery.

Very Good Pilot. However, the difference in a Good Pilot and a Great Pilot: Good pilot possesses the skill to save the aircraft from near misses with a crash......Great Pilot never has to to exhibit such skill.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:07 pm

If you really want to see how it is done then go to liveleak.com and search for "Bob Hoover". He flies a 737 like a Piper Cub!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:49 pm

JohnnyReb wrote:If you really want to see how it is done then go to liveleak.com and search for "Bob Hoover". He flies a 737 like a Piper Cub!

+1 on Bob Hoover!!!! Loved to watch him fly his Rockwell Commander and this at shows at Falcon Field:

taken from,
http://www.abbotsfordairshow.com/histor ... .html(Dick Smallenberg Photo)

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:13 pm

And that is why I would rather walk thanks.

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:52 pm

JohnnyReb wrote:Sideslip would be very dangerous particularity in that situation. Once you had to abort the landing then have to "uncross" the controls to regain normal flight control at very low altitude.
IMHO.... He crabbed it in well on final..... straightened up alittle too high either because: he mis-judged the altitude, the plane developed more lift because of the return to normal landing config; windspeed increased; or he did not factor in the change in ground effect when aircraft returned to normal landing config.

In any case....nice job of recovery.

Very Good Pilot. However, the difference in a Good Pilot and a Great Pilot: Good pilot possesses the skill to save the aircraft from near misses with a crash......Great Pilot never has to to exhibit such skill.

JohnnyReb, would you have them land in a crab instead of utilizing a froward slip from approx 100-150 feet? IMHO, this was a case of bad judgment, not a great pilot. I am hearing from the grapevine that the FO, not the CA made the landing and that the experience level wasn't there. A lot of these European carriers are using ab inito training where they have no previous experience before being hired. They may have good training but they have no experience to back up that training. I don't know the particulars as to the weather but if they exceeded crosswind limitations on that runway they should have requested another runway or gone to an alternate. It was also bad judgment to continue to the point where they scraped the wing on the runway.