Adventures with Rossi action smoothing

[earlmck]

I have a couple of Rossi rifles that are real similar; a 454 Casull and a 44-40. Here they are:

RossiPair7569.jpg

The 44-40 is an older one, pre-stoopidsafety. The 454 had the safety but I replaced it with one of Steve Young's safety-replacement peep sights. I've only had the 44-40 a few months but it has been reasonably smooth from the first; the 454 was quite rough (took real strength to work the action). I figured a few hundred rounds through it would improve it greatly. Wrong -- it didn't get better.

I've had Steve's Rossi-smoothing DVD for a year or so; did the work on a 357 Rossi but hadn't got around to doing the job on these two. You know how that happens -- guns you're not using all that often. Then a couple weeks ago the 44-40 just jammed up. Wouldn't open all the way. I figured something must have broke inside to get it to go from smooth to dead all of a sudden.

OK -- watch video to refresh memory on disassembly. Get him apart and the lifter appears froze in the bottom position. That bottom detent groove is one that Steve suggests a little grinding out in the process of smoothing things, so I did that but it still seemed hard. I decided to take the 454 apart to compare the two for force needed to cause the lifter to lift. You now might be able to picture the kid with two virtually identical Rossis pulled apart on the same table, a plastic bin for the 454 parts on the left and a bin for the 44-40 on the right. You can probably see this coming: yep, somewhere along the way I managed to put the 454 lever in with the 44-40 parts bin. Not to worry -- I'm pretty sure I know which one it was.

I guessed wrong about what lever was what and during reassembly I used the 44-40 lever in the 454. Wow! did it ever operate smooth! Of course at this point I am attributing the smoothness to the work I did a la Steve's DVD.

Then I put the 44-40 back together, using the 454 lever. Sheesh! you couldn't even operate the 44-40 with that lever. After trying to open the action I had to use a hammer (gently) to get the action closed again to re- disassemble.

So I get both levers out and do the visual comparison. Here they are:

RossiLevers7567.jpg

There is a little shape difference at the attachment head portion (yellow arrow) but attaching to the bolt showed that nothing here on the 454 bolt was interfering. The other very noticeable difference was in the area shown by the red arrow. The 454 lever seemed to be missing a divot that had been ground out of the 44-40 lever. So I took the dremel tool and ground some divot in the 454 lever. Voila! that was the secret. It now operates as smoothly as did the 44-40 lever.

Now for confession time. None of this discovery and diagnosis went anywhere as quick as I just described it. Nope, I had those danged things apart and back together about 16 times before a) I was absolutely sure I'd switched the levers the first time and b) I figured where the difference in the levers was causing the problem. Meanwhile this reassembly is causing me the big headache. I watch Steve's video 3 times but the part that is hanging me up he makes look so easy I can't see what he is doing different from what I am doing. This part is where you have the bolt halfway back in the gun, with dummy cartridge holding the ejector in place, and you put the lever with the locking lugs in and then you just "roll it closed". For me it does not want to "roll closed".

Cry, whine, moan, whimper, sweat -- 45 minutes of total frustration and all of a sudden it finally "rolls closed". What did I do, what did I do? Next time it is the same frustration. I know it is some secret way of holding your mouth that causes the thing to work like it is supposed to but I have yet to discover this secret. Instead I have gone to cheating. I take out the locking lug pin stop screw and the locking lug pin. Then I insert the lever without the locking lugs and push the bolt closed with the lever (it goes easy without the lock lugs attached). Then I ease the lever back out just far enough that I can insert the locking lugs one-at-a-time and drop in the bolt pin to attach lugs to lever (you have to keep holding the lever in place because the force of the ejector spring wants to send it too far out). Then I close the bolt using the lever and insert the bolt pin to hold lever to bolt. Now I can reattach the locking lug stop pin screw and can continue on the reassembly steps.

So that's my "Rossi Adventures" And the rifles are both smoother, with the 454 much smoother than it was (thank goodness!). And with nicer trigger pulls. But the 454 is still just as cartridge-length sensitive as ever, even though I smoothed the bejasus out of the little grooves in the cartridge guides where the rim is supposed to slide through. I didn't improve a thing (it won't feed a normal-length 45 Colt and the 454 can't be even a half millimeter longer than it's self-imposed maximum or it won't feed them either). But it is nice with the 454's at the "perfect" length, so I guess I'll just live with it. The 44-40 doesn't seem as sensitive.

Time to go shooting!

[AJMD429]

Thanks for the Bench Report...!

You now might be able to picture the kid with two virtually identical Rossis pulled apart on the same table, a plastic bin for the 454 parts on the left and a bin for the 44-40 on the right.

Been there and done that too many times so I'm scared to have more than one of anything apart at the same time.

Cry, whine, moan, whimper, sweat -- 45 minutes of total frustration and all of a sudden it finally "rolls closed". What did I do, what did I do? Next time it is the same frustration. I know it is some secret way of holding your mouth that causes the thing to work like it is supposed to but I have yet to discover this secret. Instead I have gone to cheating. I take out the locking lug pin stop screw and the locking lug pin. Then I insert the lever without the locking lugs and push the bolt closed with the lever (it goes easy without the lock lugs attached). Then I ease the lever back out just far enough that I can insert the locking lugs one-at-a-time and drop in the bolt pin to attach lugs to lever (you have to keep holding the lever in place because the force of the ejector spring wants to send it too far out). Then I close the bolt using the lever and insert the bolt pin to hold lever to bolt. Now I can reattach the locking lug stop pin screw and can continue on the reassembly steps.

Now THAT sounds like something I have to try next time...! I think the secret has to do with what exact swear-words are used, but I've just never been fluent enough, I guess...

That's really interesting about the 'missing divet' in the .454; next time I have mine apart (may be years...!) I'll look and see if mine has that (and try to remember to post yea or nea).

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

That extra cutout in the 454 lever is so it will clear the stop on the back end of the 454 carrier. Getting the lever along with the locking bolts to line up can be a pain with some of these guns. Most of the time it is caused by the ejector stem being canted just slightly. When I get one of these I just slightly break the sharp edges of the slot there in the top of the lever where it straddles the ejector and firing pin. I use a dremel and cutoff but a file will do. This helps it line up the ejector stem.

[earlmck]

That extra cutout in the 454 lever is so it will clear the stop on the back end of the 454 carrier. Getting the lever along with the locking bolts to line up can be a pain with some of these guns. Most of the time it is caused by the ejector stem being canted just slightly. When I get one of these I just slightly break the sharp edges of the slot there in the top of the lever where it straddles the ejector and firing pin. I use a dremel and cutoff but a file will do. This helps it line up the ejector stem.

Aha! So that's what it was binding on! And I'll sure work on that lever slot: all of my Rossi levers must have that sharp edge. Thanks Steve!

I'm scared to have more than one of anything apart at the same time.

Yeah, not my smartest move, but if I hadn't accidentally mixed up the levers I don't know if I'd have ever figured out why the 454 was operating rough. Sometimes "luck" trumps "smart".

[Griff]

The first time I did a Rossi, in 1987 there wasn't a DVD, didn't even have a proper manual, just the NRA guide for the 1892 Winchester, and began with the hope that the Rossi dis-assembled like it. And, no clear idea on just what needed to be smoothed to get it right. Only knew that I needed to relieve some of the ejector spring tension. That gun is actually the smoothest one that I have... (good thing, as it's actually my wife's competition gun)! I musta taken it apart and put it together 20 times to trim this and test fit... then dis-assemble and trim a bit more... re-assemble and try it out... repeat till I feel I could do it in the dark. The second one I did, I did for my son, then 10 years old... so it's has a bit heavier feel, but still smooth. And the last is the heaviest, as it's the one I also use for hunting. Still smooth, but not quite as light as the other two.

[earlmck]

I just slightly break the sharp edges of the slot there in the top of the lever where it straddles the ejector and firing pin. I use a dremel and cutoff but a file will do. This helps it line up the ejector stem.

After that nifty tip I just had to take those rifles apart one more time. Took the dremel and cutoff and broke the edges where friend NKJ suggested (where the yellow arrow is pointing in that picture up top).

What a difference! Insert the lever + lugs and she just rolls on closed. No more whimpering! Mucho thanks, Steve! And while I was doing it I decided the 454 lever works best on the 44-40 and visa versa, so I went and switched them back. All happiness and harmony in earlmck land now: no crying, whining, and moaning ever again.

I do love my m92 Winchesters and Rossis, but I have to admit that this little exercise has renewed my appreciation for the genius behind the Marlin design, where you remove one screw and the action drops apart in your hands

didn't even have a proper manual, just the NRA guide for the 1892 Winchester, and began with the hope that the Rossi dis-assembled like it. And, no clear idea on just what needed to be smoothed to get it right

So Griff, did yours all "roll closed" with no problem? And did you start out knowing you needed a dummy cartridge to hold the ejector in position for reassembly? I can imagine me taking a basket of parts to the gunsmith for help if I didn't get that little tip ahead of time!

[oneyeopn]

I have the follower coming from NKJ and my Rossi is pretty smooth, I use Mobil 1 for gun oil and it has helped but I havent been brave enough to try to disassemble my Rossi. For some reason it looks pretty complicated and for the time being I use our bed for my gunsmithing bench (until we buy our new house). The Mrs is getting used to coming back into here and finding one gun or another disassembled and layed out all over the bed. We are looking at moving down by Tulsa to be close to my kids and grandkids and she swears that I am going to have a real bench in the garage or a shop. My reloading bench is a Black and Decker Workmate with a Top made from 2 pieces of 3/4 plywood and its back here in the bedroom also. Then I will buy the DVD and smooth it up. Do you all find the spring in his kit that necessary to replace? Now that I have the 2 Leverguns my AR's are getting a lot of off time.

[Griff]

didn't even have a proper manual, just the NRA guide for the 1892 Winchester, and began with the hope that the Rossi dis-assembled like it. And, no clear idea on just what needed to be smoothed to get it right

So Griff, did yours all "roll closed" with no problem? And did you start out knowing you needed a dummy cartridge to hold the ejector in position for reassembly? I can imagine me taking a basket of parts to the gunsmith for help if I didn't get that little tip ahead of time!

Nope, and nope. The first time I thought, "how does one do this without at LEAST 3 hands?" As I smoothed out the various parts, I test assembled without the extractor. That simplified the process immensely! It was about the 3rd time after taking small amounts off the extractor spring that I forgot the collar, & went together so easily, was sure it wouldn't work. It didn't, it barely kicked the mouth of the case up, and wouldn't have extracted at all if the case on the carrier didn't push the empty far enough up so that it could roll over the receiver wall. Not exactly what I wanted, and thought, "I don't the difference that ½ coil meant." Then I noticed the collar on the table. The funny thing was, I wasn't sure EXACTLY where it should have gone! There's something to be said for not taking extended breaks, unless you're studying the schematic! After taking it apart again, and this time putting a very slight radius on all the edges of the extractor where it slips inside the bolt, with the hope that it would slide in eaiser. It was while trying to hold the extractor lined up to slip into the bolt face, and cursed as only a sailor turned away from a bar can... that the wife asked, "... what can you put in there to hold that while you slip in the lever?" I don't remember what number reason that was for marrying her, but right then, it was worth it!

There are at least a thousand ways to TRY to assemble a mdl 1892, and only ONE right way to get it done. I'm fairly certain I tried the vast majority of the ways that don't work, and only stumbled on the correct way by being lucky. Somewhere, I actually wrote out the steps necessary and saved it to a hard drive. But, by then, I really didn't need them.

[earlmck]

the wife asked, "... what can you put in there to hold that while you slip in the lever?" I don't remember what number reason that was for marrying her, but right then, it was worth it!

What a woman! But my hat is really off to you, Griff. Lots of fellows would be incapable of acting on an idea from the wife. Especially a really good idea!