on the range with a .444 Marlin levergun ...

[new pig hunter]

my range day this past Wednesday included the .444 Marlin, with an already-sighted-in Burris FFII 2-7x35 scope. Haven't had it out lately, so it was time to blow out the cobwebs.

Target at 50 yards, using Wisconsin Cartridge 240-gr ammo .... WOW !! Consistent 2" groups, or less. No matter the barrel temperature, group location remained consistent.

80 rounds expended, every one went where I wanted it to go, which is a great way to get full use of a target: move the POA 3" to the right and the group moves 3" to the right.

Cheers,

Carl

[6pt-sika]

Very nice !

Scrub it out real good and try some cast loads you might be surprised

[Dan 444]

Yep, the Marlin 444 is a consistently accurate shooting gun. Handload and do some load development (for accuracy, if you want) and you can print cloverleafs at 50 yds. The Beartooth or Ranch Dog 290g cast bullets pushed by a stout load of H4198 or H335 or H332 will get the job done.

Dan

[Blaine]

I love my .44 Magnum Magnum, too. With the factory sights and Green Box 240s, it hits stuff every time at different ranges, and I've never really shot it on paper much. It's one of those that I wonder why I need anything else.

[6pt-sika]

If you're setup to reload and cast that guns a PRIME candidate for the Ranch Dog 432-265GC , Ranch Dog 432-300GC and the just released Ranch Dog 432-240GC .

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/

[Old Savage]

Great reliable shooter there.

[Aussie Chris]

Try 265gn Hornady interlocks, mine likes em

Chris

[Chuck 100 yd]

My .444 is one of the most accurate levers I own.
That one just amazes me every time I shoot it.

[AJMD429]

Despite not being a .45-70, I think the .444 Marlin is the BEST maximum-use of the long-action levergun platforms of Marlin 336 and Winchester 94. The .45-70 can be pushed to do whatever the .444 does and beyond, but personally I'd rather do that in a Ruger No. 1, due to the thin chamber walls of the .45-70 90 in a levergun. I see little that the .444 Marlin couldn't accomplish other than what you'd need a high-pressure bottle-neck cartridge for.

[6pt-sika]

Despite not being a .45-70, I think the .444 Marlin is the BEST maximum-use of the long-action levergun platforms of Marlin 336 and Winchester 94. The .45-70 can be pushed to do whatever the .444 does and beyond, but personally I'd rather do that in a Ruger No. 1, due to the thin chamber walls of the .45-70 90 in a levergun. I see little that the .444 Marlin couldn't accomplish other than what you'd need a high-pressure bottle-neck cartridge for.

For the most part I'll agree with what you say .

However when one gets to the over 350 grain crowd it's way way easier to do what one wants with a 45-70 . Granted I do regularly shoot Micro Groove 444's with 375 grain bullets and a ballard rifled barrel with several 400 grain offerings . But unless one has a single shot or special chambered lever action once you get to 400 grainers you've pretty much hit a brick wall . While with the 45-70 I can easily go on up to a 550 grainer .

As to the use of a Ruger #1S 45-70 with the ultra heavy loads . I have never fired a #1 45-70 but I have fired a #1H 458 WIN MAG as I used to own one . The 1H is alot heavier then the 1S and the 1H I had with the 500 grain loads would flat stomp you from the bench . I can only imagine what a 1S 45-70 with my 550 grain cast loads boosted up for a Ruger action would feel like since the 1S is maybe 2 pounds lighter .

[Blaine]

Luckly, the 45-70 with 525s do not have to be brutal to be uber effective. 1400fps out of my guide gun penetrated over a dozen gallon milk jugs with water. Not a softie, but not brutal by any means. High brass 12 bore, maybe.

[Canuck Bob]

My 444 with a scope and 265 Hornady FN hand loads printed 1" groups very consistently. I only scoped for a year but my sights on the rifle were set decades ago and that same ammo hits point of aim still. I attribute it to the slow twist and the inherent accuracy of straight wall cases in a lever.

I am of the increasing opinion that the heavyweight 300 gr range is plenty for the 444. Dare I say that in my analysis the 265 to 300 gr range is ideal. The trend to heavy bullets is certainly a major boost in performance and kick. Hot loaded 265 jacketed bullets are stout recoiling rounds. I picked up an NOE mold specced at 285 gr with a gas check and a meplat like a fist.

I can vouch for the 265 Hornady FN as a moose bullet to at least 200 paces, my longest was 175 paces, DRT. It is also deadly at 50 paces. One thing I like about the big bore heavyweights is that terminal ballistics seems to stay the same through a broad range of decreasing velocities.

I've never tried them as they aren't available here but the Swift A Frame 280 and 300 gr partition bullet would get a serious look for grizzly country.

[.Dirty-.Thirty]

I have some 265gr Hornadys on order and have H4198 and H335 on hand. What was your prefered powder Bob? So far I've only been shooting the XTP pistol bullet from mine along with several boxes of LE ammo.

[Canuck Bob]

Hey Dirty 30, I used 4198 and did not write down my load, it was maybe 35 years ago! It came right out of a manual in the 70's. I always load a powerhouse like most hunting rifles a bit under published max. I do remember that I loaded up half grain test loads and found no difference in groups near the top. However I was a hunter not a bench rest shooter but my lever sure surprised my die hard bolt action magnum hunting buddies back then once I scoped it. I still had to endure smart cracks about my antique lever action cannon. I was hurtling a 265 gr 44 slug at 2400 fps, as fast as a 303!

Now some folks tell me my modern 444 cartridge is under powered to a real antique, 45/70. I figure its a bit like arguing the effect of getting hit by a speeding snowplow, one with a box load of sand and one without the box full of sand. Either way the accident site will be a debris field.

I also plan on buying some of the 265 FN Interlok Hornady bullets because I'm getting worried they might suffer from foolishness and stop production. I have no experience with their FTX spire point.

My next batch will be the Extreme 4198 Hodgdon powder for the temp. insensitivity. It can get chilly here! I'm on the 444 forum on the Marlin site and lots of folks do like the H335. For me 4198 suits my modest stable of calibers better. For no sensible reason I have never used spherical powder.

[tman]

444 can do all North American game from a 7 shot 6 and a quarterpound winchester 94. 45-70 hits harder, but in a much heavier platform.

[AJMD429]

Now some folks tell me my modern 444 cartridge is under powered to a real antique, 45/70. I figure its a bit like arguing the effect of getting hit by a speeding snowplow, one with a box load of sand and one without the box full of sand. Either way the accident site will be a debris field.

I think I'll just link to that comment next time someone starts another ".45-70 vs. .444" thread. . .

6pt-sika , I agree with you that the heavier bullets definitely give the .45-70 an edge, kind of like the .45 Colt vs. .44 Mag. I just can't imagine either cartridge being much inferior to the other for practical hunting situations, and maybe it's just my paranoia, but I always see pictures of 'kabooms' with .45-70 in the Marlin 1895, but so far haven't seen one in the .444 Marlin chambering. Of course maybe that's just because there are probably fifty .45-70's for every .444 Marlin out there...

[shooter]

You guys are getting me curious about this .444 fad I typically don't like a caliber unless it starts with a 4 and ends with a 5, but I do have a .44 mag Blackhawk, and a Redhawk, so maybe a .444 will be a good big brother to pick up. I like all the talk about the accuracy, (although my 45-70 is more accurate than I can shoot). Might be a fun new caliber to play with.

[6pt-sika]

You guys are getting me curious about this .444 fad I typically don't like a caliber unless it starts with a 4 and ends with a 5, but I do have a .44 mag Blackhawk, and a Redhawk, so maybe a .444 will be a good big brother to pick up. I like all the talk about the accuracy, (although my 45-70 is more accurate than I can shoot). Might be a fun new caliber to play with.

The 444 is pretty much what one cares to make it .

I think a Marlin 444P (a Guide Gun in 444) was the third Marlin I ever acquired . The first however was a 450 Marlin in the Modle 1895M and the second was in 1895CB in 45-70 .

Originally I shot the Nosler 250 grain Partition bullet in that 444P . Later I got a few more of the newer 444's like a 1999 of the plain jane model 444 , a 444XLR and shot a bunch of different jacketed loads . Killed several with the standard 444 using the Speer 270 grainer , killed a couple in the 444XLR using handloaded Hornady 265 grainers . And they all worked well enough !

It wasn't until I started betting into the original 444 the ones made from 1964 to 1972 that I really started enjoying the cartridge . I've NEVER fired jacketed bullets in any of the original model 444's in my accumulation and I have something like 17 or 18 of the 24" micro groove straight grip monte carlo stocked rifles . Also have 6 of the 444S that was made from 1971 to 1975 that have the barrel bands with 22" micro groove barrels as well .

Anyway my intrest in them was purely for shooting variouse cast bullets I cast at paper and finally field trials on deer, black bear or whatever .

As to the 45-70 I own only one of those and I like it quite a bit . I do not find it as much fun for shooting groups from the bench . But I still consider it the better game killer for larger beasties with the bullets I cast but then I have a couple molds that are a good bit larger then anything I cast for the 444's . My realm of molds for the 444 goes from a light of 207 to a heavy of 420 grains . While the 45-70 molds I have on hand go from 300-550 grains .

So with all that being said I still do not call the 444 Marlin my favourite cartridge . But I will say it's my favourite cast bullet cartridge for shooting paper and field testing cast bullets .