Really, Really weird thoughts...

[Old Ironsights]

I wonder if a cartridge/chamber sleeve could be made to put a .38-40 (or .41 Mag/Spl) into a .410....

hmmmm... I wonder if one could be made to make a .410 levergun work properly with one installed, yet it still be removable for shot shells...

I can't imagine it would be LESS accurate than a normal .410 slug at normal .410 slug ranges... but with a heavier bullet.

Ah, the possibilities...

[GoatGuy]

"Really, Really weird thoughts..." Somehow I'm not terribly surprised.

[Blaine]

The .410 again..

[Old Ironsights]

The .410 again..

Well, dangit, I've got yet another "political hunting spot" that won't allow Rifles of any sort other than Muzzies.

And if I'm going to be able to use the platform of my choice (levergun) without jumping to an 1887, I want to wring all I can from a (not quite) .444 smoothbore...

[AJMD429]

Here's my take on .410 slugs - back a few years ago when Indiana had yet to have a 'rifle' season for deer, my kids were too young and small to handle a full-size 12 gauge slug gun, or even 20 gauge slug gun, and I honestly feel that a muzzleloader is dangerous as a 'first gun' for hunting (matter of opinion, I know). They were also too petite and young to handle a .44 Mag or similar handgun legal for deer.

So..... the only other 'legal' option was a .410 using slugs (yeah, I know... ).

I looked at the 'power' of the typical .410 slug, and it equated to the 'vintage' level of .32-20 loads - perhaps a fine load for an experienced hunter/stalker, but hardly the best for a novice.

I actually purchased a .45 Colt/.410 Handi-Rifle with the intent (shhhh... don't tell anyone... ) of violating the law, by having them hunt with a ".410 shotgun", yet use .45 Colt in it. My RULE for whatever they hunted with was something along the lines of "You have to hit 4 out of 5 pop cans off the bench at 75 yards, and 4 out of 5 standing at 25 yards", and they COULD do that with a variety of ballistically legitimate guns (Marlin .357 Mag, Marlin .44 Mag), so I figured put a scope on that Handi, and they'd be good-to-go...

.....NOT.....

It wouldn't group inside of 24 inches at 25 yards...! I tried everything from 'cowboy' loads, to "+P+" loads, and even thought about slipping a .454 Casull in. Nothing worked well, probably because the bullets had keyholed before they hit rifling.

So, project abandoned.

Why it is pertinent to THIS thread is because my OTHER thought was to have them use a chamber/barrel insert in a breakopen 12 gauge, using .44 Mag or similar ammo.

My "rationale" for all this was that I would be hunting with one of the following:

• 12 gauge slug gun with saboted 240 grain '44' bullets around 1700 fps, or
  .50 cal Muzzleloader with saboted 240 grain '44' bullets around 1800 fps, or
  Ruger Redhawk with non-saboted 240 grain '44 bullets around 1200 fps,

So somehow it seemed that launching a 240 grain '44' bullet around 1500 fps was not considered inhumane nor dangerous - the only difference was the firearm used.

Someone makes .44 Mag (and other) inserts for 12-gauge shotguns that include about 12" of barrel (longer than my Redhawk, and no 'cylinder gap'), and a breakopen 12 gauge is light and handy, and I doubt kicks as much with a .44 Mag fired from it, as with a 7/8 oz. Brenneke.

Dunno about .410, and of course the 'barrel' type inserts would likely have to be .30 caliber or less to get much material for a barrel, but if you were willing to have a smoothbore, lots of options come to mind.

I can't imagine the 'insert' has to be all that strong, either, due to being contained in a chamber already (firing a 65,000 psi round in an 'insert' in a .410 chamber would not be something I'd try, however, even if there were no barrel and hence vastly lower pressures.

[Old Ironsights]

...
It wouldn't group inside of 24 inches at 25 yards...! I tried everything from 'cowboy' loads, to "+P+" loads, and even thought about slipping a .454 Casull in. Nothing worked well, probably because the bullets had keyholed before they hit rifling.

So, project abandoned. ...

That's weird. My 9410 did better than that with either factory slugs or random hunks of cylindrical metal stuffed into a .410 hull...

But then, I DID spend an awful lot of time & energy getting "PCRs" to be "legal" there too...

Bloody political morons...

[6pt-sika]

I actually purchased a .45 Colt/.410 Handi-Rifle with the intent (shhhh... don't tell anyone... ) of violating the law, by having them hunt with a ".410 shotgun", yet use .45 Colt in it.

Personally I'da gone on if I was gonna violate the law anyway and got them a Handi Rifle in a 243 WIN or 7mm-08 and be done with it !

In the semi near future I have ALL intentions of killing a deer in Virginia with a centerfire 22 using the Nosler 60 grain Partition bullet and another with an 8 gauge shotgun shooting 00 Buck . Both are illegal during the regular gun season however it's perfectly legal to use them during our DCP hunting . However I'm not adverse to useing either or both during the regular gun season behind my house on our property .

[6pt-sika]

FWIW the Savage 220 20 gauge bolt action rifled slug gun kicks very little with the Remington 2 3/4" AccuTip slugs . I've killed three deer in Maryland with that gun using 3 shots . The first a whitetail doe at 125 yards and then the following year two shots inside 50 yards for two Sika doe's .

If you wanna remain 100% legal I would suggest looking long and hard at one of these . While they are a bit more then a Handi Rifle they are still not that far out the price range as guns go these days . I think you can get into one for about $500-550 . Plus a scope and ammo of course .

[Old Ironsights]

It's the principle of the thing.

The rule is stupid and internally inconsistent when actual ballistic data is used.

I should be able to use my .357/92... but their "rules" "limit" me to a 300yd Sabot Slug driver or modern muzzle stuffer.

If there is a legitimate ballistic limitation, so be it. But they should be using ballistic reality, not "rifles are scary" fantasies.

[Malamute]

This is in Wyoming?

I didnt realize there were shotgun only places in Wy, other than for birds.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Closest adapter I know of is a 32 H&R mag to .410: http://www.gunadapters.com/410-to-32-ma ... e-adapter/


These guys make a pretty potent .410 slug load: http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/

[Old Ironsights]

This is in Wyoming?

I didnt realize there were shotgun only places in Wy, other than for birds.

There is a long, narrow, river-bottom F&W area near my house that is surrounded by cows. I'm assuming that is why it's "Muzzleloader, Shotgun & Archery Only". You aren't even allowed to use a .22.

Of course, it does NOT say "no slug guns" so anybody with a fully rifled 300yd sabot-launcher (slug gun or modern muzzleloader) is welcome to take a whack at the whatever's in there, but guys with brush guns aren't.

So I wander around it with an 1858 and a .410 - which is really plenty for the small game in there. For my dedicated deerstalking I'll use my flintlock, but in between times, when I have a legal tag but am otherwise just bunny busting, I'd like to have a heavier option in my .410, if not for deer at least for predators.

I really, really, really hate ballistic stupidity from the Fishy Game Cops...

[Old Ironsights]

Closest adapter I know of is a 32 H&R mag to .410: http://www.gunadapters.com/410-to-32-ma ... e-adapter/


These guys make a pretty potent .410 slug load: http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/

Interesting webpage. Unfortunately they are basing all of their loads on custom rifled barrels. I want something that will work in a Rossi/Marlin/Winchester Modified Choke smoothbore at 75yds with more than a 109gr (1/4oz) payload.

[adirondakjack]

Here's a thought. I wonder if you could get somebody to rifle a .410 barrel for ya? Then with heavier slugs.......

MY issue with .410 factory slugs is yer shooting a lead thimble that carries very little velocity downrange. Up close they are nasty, but run out of gas pretty quick.

[Mescalero]

OI,
Google up Owens Adapters.
Might be what you are looking for.
My contention is that for a truck gun a H&R handy gun in .223 with .22Mag. and .22L.R. adapters, ammo by Paco's accurizer, is about as close to perfection as we can get without custom work and custom price.

[Canuck Bob]

When I saw your heading I thought, oh no not another one of those threads!

One thing I always wonder about is the hassle of extra gear and managing it in the field. Boy, I sometimes miss a stockman's pocket knife, a handful of 22s, and my rifle like it was when I was a kid. No backpack, no clutter, no spare aperture to lose, no light and heavy loads to mix up (this one cost me my only bragging buck), and all the junk I seem to carry and never use when I go for a walk.

If I was an American I'd consider a handy lever action and a nice little 22 pistol where legal. Not that inserts aren't worthy. The ability to shoot cheaper practice ammo or double use of shotgun does have its appeal. My luck I got a load of birdshot when I realize a bear is hunting the same rabbit!

[Mescalero]

BTT,
for OI