Scout Handgun?

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:05 pm

We know the scout rifle concept. But what will the Scout Handgun concept be?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:08 pm

I am afraid of the result.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:20 pm

tomtex wrote:We know the scout rifle concept. But what will the Scout Handgun concept be?

Really?

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:35 pm

Are we in XP-100 territory on this one?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Are we in XP-100 territory on this one?

But what kind of optics...?

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:01 pm

Remote optics mounted into eyeglasses, slaved to head motion, with thought controlled firing mechanism?

Don

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:13 pm

I think it is obvious, it is a 1911...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:17 pm

Hobie wrote:I think it is obvious, it is a 1911...

+1,000

crystal river charli · Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:11 pm

+ 1000000

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Nope, I've already made it.

Since the idea of a "scout" anything isn't simply a martial firearm, but also one that can be used to take game. The .22 lr is the obvious choice. With the holo sight, and the original iron sights useable without removing it, I have the best of both worlds. With a rest, hey I'm getting old and shakey, I have taken jacks out to almost 100yds with it. Of course the jacks were sitting still and had no idea I was there.

Folks even take deer with .22's (yea, we should hang them from a tree), and I've personally take a yote with this handgun. So, the hunting end is taken care or. Of course you can use a .22 for defense. Not the best thing in the world, but better than a sharp stick.

The one thing I haven't come up with, too many other irons in the fire, is a sort of single point sling for it. I have a belt holster, but I was thinking the sling would work pretty well when chasing bunnies.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:49 pm

I think I used to own one, no kidding. I think this just might qualify. For years I owned and competed with a Smith and Wesson Model 41, 22 rimfire, with a 7-1/2" barrel, in NRA Hunter Silouette. On top if this gun, I had a gunsmith drill and tap the barrel for a Weaver Swing-over mount and for a long time I ran a 3 x 9 variable rifle scope on it.

This really was quite versatile, as I could turn down to 3 power and shoot most anything moving, close range, etc or crank it up on 9 power and take my class in Tripple A at the sunday match. The old swingover mount could also be swung over out of the way and I could shoot the iron sights.

Not to mention that old Weaver Swingover mount, (maybe some of you remember them, but the top half (rings and scope) could be removed and returned just by removing the 2 hinge screws and would return to zero, better then any mount I have ever had on any gun.

Other benifits include you could have more then one barrel and quickly change out, not mention break down for cleaning without tools, and with a few extra magazines would be deady indeed with lots of fire power.

I wish I had never sold it, but I did several years ago to round up money for a custom Wilson Combat 1911. But that 41 was the best .22 pistol I ever had, and was capable of under 2 inch groups at a hundred yards, all day long. Anyway, that is one I should not have let get away. Nothing like hindsight.

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:30 pm

OP. Note: what hand gun ammo would you, want for your scout hand gun to use for head shot only on Zombies or walkers, knowing you need to find ammo as you travel to safety? Note: hope this will help

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:47 pm

[quote=that 41 was the best .22 pistol I ever had, and was capable of under 2 inch groups at a hundred yards, all day long. [/quote]

Boy you really had me going until the punch line. I have rarely seen a 22 rimfire rifle that could shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yds. In fact not so sure I have ever seen one.

junkbug · Post by **junkbug** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:51 pm

Wasn't the "Scout Pistol" the BREN TEN? The better mousetrap that went bust? After that, the Col. concluded the 1911A1 didn't need fixing?

At least thats how I reemember it.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:56 pm

tomtex wrote:OP. Note: what hand gun ammo would you, want for your scout hand gun to use for head shot only on Zombies or walkers, knowing you need to find ammo as you travel to safety? Note: hope this will help

Mine really likes CCI minimags. Stingers and other such light weight hyper-velocity rounds tend to have quite a few flyers.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:14 pm

preventec,
Really?

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:22 pm

Some of us here do have .22LR rifles that will shoot 2 inches at 100 yards just because you have never seen one, they do exist.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Thank you Jerry,
Two of mine do.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:25 pm

preventec47 wrote:I have rarely seen a 22 rimfire rifle that could shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yds. In fact not so sure I have ever seen one.

They WILL, but you have to use subsonic ammo - the transition from supersonic to subsonic takes place around 75 yards, and they start to tumble. Keep them subsonic, and although they have a 'rainbow' trajectory, they will be very accurate.

Paul105 · Post by **Paul105** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:43 am

Here's my version of the "Scout Handgun".

I mounted the scope on this 3 1/2", .45 Colt, Freedom Arms M97 to do some load development (old eyes and open sights not conducive to consisten groups). Surprisingly, it is a handy little rig with the scope in place. Gun with scope weigh less that my 6" FA83 .454 with open sights and is very shootable.

The little belly gun is so much fun with open sights that I removed the scope.

Paul

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Personally, I believe that there is no light utility task that cannot be performed by the likes of a Ruger Mk II or Mk III.

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:43 pm

After reading the above posts. I conclude that any hand gun will work, as long as can find ammo for it and then hit your target.
For the Zombie world, any JHP 22 cal hand gun with the help of scope/optic so you can engage targets as for away as posable ,will let you shoot and run, a feed your self ,and ammo should easy found.

For the real world I would want hand gun, that can fire a combination of 9 mm,38 cal and 357 mag with moon clips, ammo should be easily found . I Only know of two hand guns lines that can do this, The Ruger and the new Rhino?

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:53 pm

Not saying this is perfect but with two more barrels I think it could be in the running. It is the first year manufacture or so, came with the 45 colt/410 barrel. I added a .256 win mag. Now if we added a .22lr and maybe .30 herrett?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:00 pm

Booger Bill,
I used to shoot silhouette? with a .30 Herret.
I gave it up, non hearing protected fire with that thing would be brutal.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:05 pm

Glock 10MM.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:26 pm

...it's the handgun that I am presently carrying when I'm hunting... :)

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:53 pm

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Are we in XP-100 territory on this one?

nah, just a mares leg with a scope on it!

and a laser

and a flash light

and a bayonet

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:47 pm

preventec47 wrote:
that 41 was the best .22 pistol I ever had, and was capable of under 2 inch groups at a hundred yards, all day long. [/quote wrote:
Boy you really had me going until the punch line. I have rarely seen a 22 rimfire rifle that could shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yds. In fact not so sure I have ever seen one.
I am not joking, that was not a punch line, it was a very accurate gun, more accurate then the average 75 dollar 22 rifle, remember I was shooting a 9 power scope on it and I failed to mention that was off of sandbags, granted you have to be able to shoot to do it, however, I did have a .22 heavy barrel rifle that could easily do 1 inch at a 100yds on a calm day and good ammo.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:36 pm

This: Broomhandle Mauser with a scope ala Star Wars

http://www.partsofsw.com/dl44sw_alt.htm

LK

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:34 pm

I think the "perfect packing pistol" of John Taffins description would be the closest thing to a scout concept in a handgun. Powerful, light, easy to carry. That's the foundation of scout stuff.

Bayonets? That's hilarious! Sort of the opposite of anything in the scout concept, as would scoped handguns of any sort, unless one wasn't going to carry a rifle and needed a couple hundred yards range for first round hit capability

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:47 am

Mescalero wrote:Thank you Jerry,
Two of mine do.

yes -- my stock Ruger 10/22T (the heavy barrel target model with spiral fluted hammer forged barrel ) -- will do well under 1/2" at Bullseye indoor 100 yard shooting range in Kansas with Eley or Tenex ammo --- outdoors, i get around .75" off bags with cheaper ammo (Remington target ammo, not bulk pack stuff )

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:48 am

Booger Bill wrote:Not saying this is perfect but with two more barrels I think it could be in the running. It is the first year manufacture or so, came with the 45 colt/410 barrel. I added a .256 win mag. Now if we added a .22lr and maybe .30 herrett?

I was going to mention the Contender/Encore series too

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:35 pm

Open sighted Glock 20 (fitted with Crimson Trace laser grips)

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:36 pm

OK, I admit I have two that fit the description but I thought they were for squirrel hunting not scout pistols.

Marvel C.jpg

22 cal pisols C.jpg

Arch's 762x39c.jpg

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:14 am

From many of the posts, I think many don't understand the scout concept.

Hobie and tman get it.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:50 pm

Sig 220 black elite.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:19 am

Not to bash on the scout concept some more ( but dang it is so easy) many of you are missing the point. It's not to take what is the perfect production packin pistol, or a 1911 or a SA .45colt or whatever and use it. Yes, these and many others are the perfect multitool already. But to make a "scout handgun" you have to take that perfect handgun and add bells and whistles which no one needed or asked for. It can't be a factory configeration 1911, or MKII, or Single Six, or S&W 4" .357. This isn't the prefect woods or packing gun we're talkin about, we already have plenty of those. It's to be a scout handgun. But remember you have to have gun writer support or it will fail. Cooper obviously isn't available but my understanding that St. Terry might be.

LK

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:37 am

Hobie wrote:I think it is obvious, it is a 1911...

Yep! I have a color poster on my gun cabinet that says; "1911, Hammer of God"...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:26 pm

Booger Bill wrote:Not saying this is perfect but with two more barrels I think it could be in the running. It is the first year manufacture or so, came with the 45 colt/410 barrel. I added a .256 win mag. Now if we added a .22lr and maybe .30 herrett?

Maybe want to start another thread, but I'd be interested in a 'range report' on how you find your .45/410 to be when using the .45 Colt cartridge - is it accurate...?

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:49 pm

[quote=]Not to bash on the scout concept some more ( but dang it is so easy)....[/quote]

It's now really obvious some don't get the scout thing at all.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:40 am

Malamute wrote:It's now really obvious some don't get the scout thing at all.

I'll be the first one to raise my hand to that one. I don't get, tried to get, researched it and find it completely out of my grasp. YMMV, I've given up, not embarassed in the least and will stick with a regular old short rifle.

LK

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:47 am

L_Kilkenny wrote:
Malamute wrote:It's now really obvious some don't get the scout thing at all.
I'll be the first one to raise my hand to that one. I don't get, tried to get, researched it and find it completely out of my grasp. YMMV, I've given up, not embarassed in the least and will stick with a regular old short rifle.

LK

I'll be the second...wouldn't use a pistol for anything over a 100 yards anyways, so what is the purpose of using optical enhancers?

A Ruger 7.5 SBH in .44 Mag is all ya need.

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:57 am

"I have rarely seen a 22 rimfire rifle that could shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yds. In fact not so sure I have ever seen one."

"They WILL, but you have to use subsonic ammo - the transition from supersonic to subsonic takes place around 75 yards, and they start to tumble. Keep them subsonic, and although they have a 'rainbow' trajectory, they will be very accurate."

I and a bunch of other IHMSA Small Bore shooters would heartily disagree with both of these statements.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:07 am

I am lost as well.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:53 am

Old Time Hunter wrote:I'll be the second...wouldn't use a pistol for anything over a 100 yards anyways, so what is the purpose of using optical enhancers?

A Ruger 7.5 SBH in .44 Mag is all ya need.

I'm lost too, where did the idea that a scoped handgun was anything remotely connectd to the scout idea come from? It's sort of the opposite of the concept so far as I can tell. The idea was about a very short, light handy rifle that can do as much and as well as a short handy rifle can, in regards to handguns (which wasn't part of the idea until this thread), a scope would seem to take away from that idea. A simple, short powerful handgun would seem to fill the bill. I'd go with a 4 5/8" Super myself. I had a 5 1/2" one, and had it cut to 4 5/8". In a good belt rig, it can be worn all day every day and never be in the way. I've forgotten I had it on on many occasions. A good 4" 357 would be pretty darn close to all around, tho some of us like a little heavier caliber for the places we live and the uses we have for handguns.

Optics on a rifle? I like them very much.

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:19 pm

Malamute wrote:I think the "perfect packing pistol" of John Taffins description would be the closest thing to a scout concept in a handgun. Powerful, light, easy to carry. That's the foundation of scout stuff.

I couldn't agree more, since I own the PPP! A 1959 model 4 3/4" Ruger Flattop in .44

2x22

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:08 pm

With or without it, I still do not grasp the concept.

Would not a holster and sixgun be enough?

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:13 pm

I still think a semi-auto .22 would do just fine.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:43 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:With or without it, I still do not grasp the concept.

Would not a holster and sixgun be enough?

"It", meaning a scope on a handgun? I don't think they're very handy, and add to the bulk and slow the handling down. All things that are opposite the "concept". If one likes them (scopes on handguns), that's enough reason to have one, but I can't figure out what connection it would have to anything resembling the "scout concept".

A holster and sixgun enough? Yes, I quite agree. I can't figure out how the waters got so muddied with ideas of widgets, scopes, and shortened rifles in handgun configuration.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:22 pm

Optics, whether red dot, holo or scope, all do one thing. They make it easier to hit a target. And, if it's available, is seems foolish not to take advantage of it. Should those devices fail, you can always fall back on your iron sights. I like the idea of a semi .22 in this role, some don't. But, as with the scout rifle, you pays your money and takes your choice. Or more simply, what works for one doesn't work for all.

One thing I believe Cooper was trying to do, was make people think. He was all about using one's brain as their first line of defense. Hardware is good, smarts can make needing to rely on that hardware less.