Shooting steel shot in older shotguns

[Booger Bill]

I just asked this on a handgun site, but might do better here.

Shotguns is my weakest gun knowledge area. As a youth I lived with shotguns and hunting everything with them. That was before steel shot. I moved west and dont use them. I do still own a armfull, all are no newer than about early 1980s and back.
What do I need to know and do or not do? I have several good ones like a model 37 ithica supream skeet in 20 guage that is unfired that I bought in 1984, and a browning BSS 12 guage I bought in 1978. I shot that just on one outing with lead shot.
I also own a real old winchester 97 and a real old remington 31 that was dads. To get techinal, I even own a first year or so T/C contender with the .45 colt/410 barrel. I just now started to research the consiquences of shooting steel shot in these guns and the more I read the more confused I get! What do you knowledgable shotgunners say to do?

[Nath]

All I know is (and it aint much) no more than moderated choke with steel loads.

86er is the feller to ask!

Nath.

[Mike D.]

I have shot plenty of steel through the 30" barrel of my old Model 12 3" Duck gun. It has a full choke and patterns #4 steel just fine. Small steel, up to #3s is OK in the older guns, but don't try the larger shot. Old double guns are another story entirely. The barrels are typically thinner at the muzzle and will definitely be harmed by the use of steel shot. Any older pump shotguns with full chokes can have the barrel shortened and choke tubes installed. Modified choke barrels are no problem with any size steel shot. All new shells have a sleeve around the shot anyway, so not hard metal touches the bore, anyway.

[KCSO]

Steel shot will pattern best for the most part in what amounts to an I/C choke and sometimes quite well in a open bore. In most older shotguns with the tighter lead chokes even a modified choke will peen and bulge after a while and NEVER shoot steel n a full choke. When I open a choke for steel I start at a little tighter than I/C and then open it up a little at a time till I get nice round paterns with no holes. This is usually between I/C and no choke at all. This does depend on what size shot you use and most of my work here is with duck loads of #4 or #2 shot. I have seen steel bulge the barrels on old thin wall tube so I don't recomend it for those guns at all and NOT at all in double guns.

[Blaine]

Rem Heavy Shot, or Bismuth might be less damaging, and better too.

[madman4570]

If you care about your gun(if it ain't designed for steel shot)-------------don't shoot steel period.
Sure maybe you might get away with it (for awhile)but why chance it?
Some of these older gun used softer steel(softer than the steel pellet material)and you know what that means?
If in question----------make a call to the gun manufacturer and talk to one of their gunsmiths in their repair shops.
Your gun/your choice---Good Luck

[Nath]

You know what, I ain't ever seen a duck dying from lead poisoning, apart from high speed lead that is!

Seen plenty suffering from fishing line! Do they make steel fishing line?

N.

[Ray Newman]

"You know what, I ain't ever seen a duck dying from lead poisoning, apart from high speed lead that is!
"Seen plenty suffering from fishing line! Do they make steel fishing line?"
-- Nath

Well then, maybe the animal rights activists should demand a ban on fishing? Or, maybe only allow fishing with 100% biodegradable fishing line that will dissolve in a matter of hours after contact with water???

[Marlin32]

The BSS is probably good. NOt sure of your chokes? But I wouldn't shoot steel in it if you have full choke. Many will argure you can't shoot steel through a BSS, but according to Browning (and I asked, on website too) but the BSS made after I think 75 or 76 is okay to shoot steel in. BUT keep shot size on smaller end and not through full choke. (Browning told me it might be okay in Full choke, but you will start to notice a "ring" right at where "choke" starts, is cosmetic.

I haven't shot steel through my BSS '77, but if I do, will be #4 or #5 steel and possibly #7 steel. (I have IC/Mod chokes)

I would be hesitant to shoot Hevi-shot through it, unless it is their Classic Doubles line which is made for old shotguns not rated for steel.

Personnaly, I would use Kent's Tungsten Matrix, it is waaayyyy better than steel and okay in any shotgun. Expensive, but worth it. I load most of my own and use the NICE SHOT (which is similar to Tungsten Matrix by Kent, expensive, but loads are real easy, it really is just a lead substitue in any of your loads. Some say the pressure will be higher by about 1500PSI but that has not been the case with my loads, in fact a couple of my 16ga loads were LESS than the lead load. I had them tested.

[madman4570]

Always kinda respected this guys opinion.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/steel_shot.htm

[Booger Bill]

Thanks everyone. I will call browning and ithica soon. Is everybodys old shotguns obsolete now? Sure wouldnt know it by checking the prices on guns like mine in the adds! Do peple quit shooting the old parkers, LC smiths, winchester 21s and model 12s or what? How can they sell them for a big price if they are next to useless with the new steel shot and outlawing lead shot that they were built for?

[Marlin32]

I shoot a lot of older guns not rated for steel. I just use Tungsten Matrix or Nice Shot in them.
Steel sucks ballistically, last thing I would use to try to kill a bird. Will in some circumstances and usually because I have no other option.

[Mike D.]

Good steel shot loads kill ducks emphatically out to 50 yds. I prefer them 30-40 yds, though. Hevi Shot shells are prohibitively expensive and are only used for late season heavily feathered white front geese. Snows are not worth the effort, but my blind partner loves them. I haven't even fired at one in years.

[madman4570]

To be truthful you guys, couple months ago bought a box of Expert Winchester 12ga 2 3/4" #7's at Walmart for like $6
I was lured in by its velocity and payload for low brass.(price was also cheap I thought.

Got home and noticed(Steel Shot)
I thought probably won't hurt my old Win 37 12ga??? Shot one---seemed fine.(dead chipmunk)
Then got online and started really reading as much as I could.
moral of the story(the other 24 shells are in the box sitting on my gun safe)

Man, what is it with me(this and the burning 120rds off with my kel-Tec Su16C)
Am I going a little senile????????????

Not like me (to chance anything when it comes to taking any chance of hurting one of my guns)

[TMair]

I started shooting steel when it first came out, figured what the heck it's coming just as well get used to it, and I can tell you some if it was pretty bad, but now days it's pretty good, I started reloading for it when BP first came out with their steel shot shell components, and I put a lot of steel through shotguns that weren't "Rated for steel", not sure I own a shotgun that is "rated for steel"
there are two drawbacks to steel, and older shotguns, first is full chokes, steel likes more open chokes, but I have a grand old double 10 gauge with full and full, and I have knocked down a lot of ducks with it using steel shot, the second is large shot size, the problem is steel wont flow like lead, and if you use large shot it can bridge in the shot cup, and that will take out a barrel, the rule of thumb is if three pellets can line up in a row in the shot cup, and will almost fit down the barrel but not quite it is not a good choice, if three pellets cannot line up in a row in the shot cup then they can't get in a position to bridge, as an example if BBB size shot can fit across the cup, but can't fit across the choke then it can bridge, but in that same gun if T size shot can't fit across the cup then they will not be able to bridge, so that gun could safely shoot T size shot, but not BBB size shot. I do want to add that I had an American arms that was rated for steel and the tubes bulged right at the chokes, chokes were IC and Modified, AA would not warenty the gun, I figurd they lost the temper in the steel when they soldered the barrels, that little incedent is why Gart sports stopped selling AA guns.
For shot size, you need to go up about two shot sizes to come close to equal lead, we used to use 6s and 4s for ducks and geese, now we used 3s, 2s, and BB if they are loaded fast, and most are these days, speed is key to using steel shot on bug birds.
As for choke and shot, plan on going down one choke size, so a modified choke with steel shot will shoot similar to a full choke with lead, and an IC a modified, that said would I shoot steel in my Winchester 24 with paper thin tubes? No! but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it in a Browning SS, I have, and do shoot it in all of my shotguns with the exception of that winchester.
Terry

[Booger Bill]

Thanks again!