.454& 500 Levergun

[.45colt]

For the cost of four Marlin,five Rossie,or two Japchester 86 45-70's those that got to have the big bore .454,& 500 rifles can be Happy. .http://www.drcfirearms.com/_webapp_1238 ... tion_Rifle

[Leverdude]

Funny how he says its not a reworked Marlin but a original custom design. I guess its custom but it sure aint original. Looks like he beefed up the locking area but the rest is 100% Marlin.
But I'm sure happy people can get what they want now, sure wouldnt be worth $2500 to me but it might to somebody.

[Malamute]

Interesting exercise in gun building, it's beautiful work.

If I felt the need for more gun than an 86 in 45-70, I'd go with an 86 in 45-90 or 50-100-450. Either would be much less money if that was a concern. The Marlin type action just doesnt appeal to me personally the way a Winchester action does. Fine guns, just not as appealing to me.

I used to have a huge desire for an 86 in 50 cal, but that desire has faded over time.

[pricedo]

Funny how he says its not a reworked Marlin but a original custom design. I guess its custom but it sure aint original. Looks like he beefed up the locking area but the rest is 100% Marlin.
But I'm sure happy people can get what they want now, sure wouldnt be worth $2500 to me but it might to somebody.

I'd order one but I'm afraid their factory might not have the same high degree of quality control the Rossi factory has.

[Streetstar]

I've seen pics of this floating around for a while ,maybe even in this forum --- its pretty, thats for sure, but i think with whats at stake (people's faces) plus the failure to launch of Big Horn Armory and their .500 creation (which was also very nice looking) due to problems , i can't envision them selling a ton of these.
Its expensive sure, but then again, lots of people spend that much on a "black rifle", a tricked out 1911, nice Weatherby/scope combo and even more for a Shiloh or C Sharps. I dont think price is the limiting factor as much as the uncertainty and the failure of other products in the past with this round

I guess i don't get the fascination with stuffing the .500 into a levergun when there are cartridges like the 45-70, 450 Marlin, and Turnbulls proprietary cartridge that work without all the hassle --- i know, i know .... magazine capacity is one reason i suppose, -- then there is the "Because i can!" factor which need not be explained

Good luck to 'em though,

[Buck Elliott]

The biggest underlying factor has always been the "companion" rifle/pistol concept.. For most of us, that precludes such monster handguns as the BFR in .45-70 or .444 Marlin, which exceed the definition of "easily packable" for most of us.. The X-frame S&W seems to be the upper limit for the majority of us, and is over the line for some.. For a lot of hunters east of the Missouri or west of the Great Basin, the concept is probably prettymuch moot, which is understandable, at least in part.. For those of us out here in the wide open spaces and the rugged, tall-uncut, it makes perfect sense.. If you don't already 'get' it, no amount of explanation will get the point across..

[Streetstar]

For those of us out here in the wide open spaces and the rugged, tall-uncut, it makes perfect sense.. If you don't already 'get' it, no amount of explanation will get the point across..

Oh, i understand the attraction to combo ensembles --- but really, Buck -- are the conditions in the "rugged tall uncut" really that much different in the year 2012 that carrying a combo ensemble would afford real advantages over carrying a 45-70 with 6 in the tube, plus a 454 or 500 with 6 in the cylinder ? No -- that person out there in the wide open spaces likely has a frame pack or a vehicle to keep a few spares in today
If this was 1883 and a person was in a firefight with hostiles there's a legitimate need because keeping your ammo separated in your dump bag would be a pain. But today, i dont need a combo ensemble to go hunting HAji's in Iraq or Afghanistan, (M4 and M9 take completely different cartridges and that has been fine for decades) and neither do most people tromping around in the backcountry for whatever reason --

Explanations supporting the "need" for .500 SW combo packages will always dwindle down to "Because we can!" eventually, and thats good enough, but no amount of pontificating in the world will convince me that the guy carrying a fully loaded 1886 plus a powerful 6 gun of his choice is at any disadvantage whatsoever to the fella carrying his boutique .495 Loudenboomer combo package

- smiley added, because my intent is friendly debate, and not to be argumentative or anything -- as its hard to convey tone on the internet

[Leverdude]

For those of us out here in the wide open spaces and the rugged, tall-uncut, it makes perfect sense.. If you don't already 'get' it, no amount of explanation will get the point across..

Oh, i understand the attraction to combo ensembles --- but really, Buck -- are the conditions in the "rugged tall uncut" really that much different in the year 2012 that carrying a combo ensemble would afford real advantages over carrying a 45-70 with 6 in the tube, plus a 454 or 500 with 6 in the cylinder ? No -- that person out there in the wide open spaces likely has a frame pack or a vehicle to keep a few spares in today
If this was 1883 and a person was in a firefight with hostiles there's a legitimate need because keeping your ammo separated in your dump bag would be a pain. But today, i dont need a combo ensemble to go hunting HAji's in Iraq or Afghanistan, (M4 and M9 take completely different cartridges and that has been fine for decades) and neither do most people tromping around in the backcountry for whatever reason --

Explanations supporting the "need" for .500 SW combo packages will always dwindle down to "Because we can!" eventually, and thats good enough, but no amount of pontificating in the world will convince me that the guy carrying a fully loaded 1886 plus a powerful 6 gun of his choice is at any disadvantage whatsoever to the fella carrying his boutique .495 Loudenboomer combo package

- smiley added, because my intent is friendly debate, and not to be argumentative or anything -- as its hard to convey tone on the internet

Exactly. I often clamber all over the mountains near my camp in NH with a rifle & revolver, sometimes in the same caliber, but its because I want to. I dont want to, or need to use anything more powerful than a 44 mag so the bigger handgun calibers dont interest me beyond entertainment value. I like reading about them but will likely never bother buying one.
I can totally see, though its off topic, a greater need for flat shooting calibers out west though. If I want a several hundred yard shot I'd need to look pretty hard where I hunt, but out there it seems the oposite & a guy might have to try real hard to end up with a 50 yard shot.

Exactly in regards to your last sentence as well. I know I come off blunt or even argumentative sometimes though its rarely my intention.

[El Chivo]

There are quite a few hobbyists who don't shoot much and don't get out much, but who want the biggest and loudest to miss the paper with. Every time I go to the range there's someone shooting a 50 caliber handgun, or a new 50 caliber BMG variant, or BFR in 450 something. A 50 caliber levergun would certainly appeal to this group, and the $2500 price would be a talking point, not a drawback.

[Panzercat]

Big Horn Armory says, "hey." Sexier, too.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Big Horn Armory says, "hey." Sexier, too.

I'm sorry, but that BHA 89 Short Rifle in stainless and walnut is really good looking in comparison to the DRC rifle. Are they really delivering those now?

[Buck Elliott]

Every shooter has his measurable, verifiable limits.. I pretty well know mine, and feel no urgency to try to exceed them.. For me, in a proper revolver, the .475 Linebaugh with 400 grain bullets at about 1400 fps is all I want or can make best use of... Designed by friend John Linebaugh and finalized by acquaintenc Tim Sundles, this 50,000 psi cartridge is extremely well balanced and versatile. As a rifle cartridge, it will gain another 300 fps, at near-maximum pressure.. In either guise, it will handle anything I may run into, including the big bears or wolves, which are rapidly taking over the surrounding countryside.. I have a special affinity for the .454 Casull, and learned to control it in both rifle and revolver.. I have fired the Linebaugh Maximum cartridges, and found them to be beyond my tolerance limit... Same for the .500 S&W. At this point of my life, I don't feel like putting forth the effort required to tame the beasts.. I love my 86 Extra Light Winchester in .45-70, but limited magazine capacity spells limited utility.. To tell the truth, my usual "go-to" guns are a Beretta Stampede and a Uberti '73, in regular old .45 Colt.. I know that I can get successive hits on multiple targets in a hurry, and the rifle holds 15 rounds, and is easily replenished, while the revolver carries 6. Given the growing number of encounters with packs of wolves in the region, that can all be very comforting.. Would a .30-30 do a better job? Not really.. And the ammo would take up more room, and decrease magazine capacity, which could work against me.. I now get 1500 + fps from that rifle, which is enough to put an end to any wolf that ever walked using 250 grain hard-cast bullets..

YMMV...

[tomtex]

What barrel length would you pick, for a 45/454?

[Streetstar]

There are quite a few hobbyists who don't shoot much and don't get out much, but who want the biggest and loudest to miss the paper with. Every time I go to the range there's someone shooting a 50 caliber handgun, or a new 50 caliber BMG variant, or BFR in 450 something. A 50 caliber levergun would certainly appeal to this group, and the $2500 price would be a talking point, not a drawback.

El Chivo, you hit the nail on the head with that ----- reminds me of a range trip a year or so ago , a fella had a new 4" barreled .500 with the orange grips -- the "Wilderness Survival Package" gun SW put out. I don't know what he hit or didnt hit, but several lanes over, the concussion and blast were hard for me to deal with and i just quit shooting until he was done. The kid (well, a younger guy, couldve been 25-30) had a gaggle of friends with him and insisted on passing it around so all the buddies could marvel at the recoil of the beast, then they would each stop to pose for pics with somber "tactical" looks on their faces --- it would have been amusing to me if the blast wasn't so annoying.
I guess its hard to tell some people that they would be better off shooting a .45 Colt Blackhawk for a while, then working their way up the power scale, rather than the other way around. Had another friend who purchased a new 7mm MAgnum of some sort for his very first rifle -- he had never shot anything larger than an M16 in his life. The first range session did not go well -- now he has a couple of years hunting under his belt and uses a .270

[Buck Elliott]

For the revolver, I like 7 1/2" best, and for the rifle, I'll go with 24".. Just the results of personal experience..

[Leverdude]

I see guys most every weekend at the local public range I help out at shooting barret 50 cals at 60 yards. True that theres not many decent public ranges around, but I cant see buying one of those unless I had a place to shoot it. Most of the private clubs dont allow them either. I also belong to the Bell City rifle club & they will allow it as long as its run by the range committee first. At least we have a 200 yard range there but its still not far enough to interest me. People will do the derndest things if they can, it doesnt bother me, but it does make me wonder why...

[RIHMFIRE]

Big Horn Armory says, "hey." Sexier, too.

I agree!...

[tomtex]

For the revolver, I like 7 1/2" best, and for the rifle, I'll go with 24".. Just the results of personal experience..

Buck, I wish you would take you design , back to the gun manufactures, I would think Ruger or Savage needs to market a lever gun? Also why not post the history of your design,on the Skill Showcase on this site.So all us could read it?

[Mutt]

I reckon I'm just plain happy with what I have. Good 336s and winchester '94s plus several SAA . Mine look good , hit where I aim , The only thing I'll be aimimg at any more is a target and maybe some outlaw .I don't think I'd have a need for much else. But I do understand WANT !


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Mutt

[hfcable]

For the revolver, I like 7 1/2" best, and for the rifle, I'll go with 24".. Just the results of personal experience..

i often do not spell out my preferences in detail [ well, nobody asks really ] but my preferences are like yours: i find the 7 1/2" single actions and in the 73, 66, and even the henry rifle, i prefer the 24" . i have a 30" 1873 repro that is fun, and couple of carbines too, but the 24" has the balance and pointability that seems natural to me.

[mergus]

Like Streetstar and Buck have alluded to, I know my personal comfort level, and its right at .45 Colt in pistols and 45-70's in a rifle. Anything more can and will cause me to develop a flinch. I'd rather shoot guns at that level well, than try to stretch my way into a heavy thumper 'cause its cool:)

Mergus

[Ji in Hawaii]

Big Horn Armory says, "hey." Sexier, too.

Much better price too starting at for the 22" bbl., Hunter Stainless, Maple Stock, Treated $2,039.00
I'll take a 1886 Browning based design over Marlin 336 based design any day no offense to Marlin.
I wish they were available in a straight grip model though.
https://www.bighornarmory.com/retail/index.php

[1894c]

Great discussion--even better info... :)

[piller]

I have a combo in .480 Ruger. The Rossi holds 10 in the tube, has a loading gate as well as the unscrewable tube which allows for drop loading like a .22 and the pistol is a Ruger SRH with a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Loaded with 325 grain Speer Gold Dot, or Hornady XTP if the Speer isn't available, over IMR 4227 or Longshot, the pistol kicks less than factory and still will hit with enough power to do anything I would ever want from it, and the rifle gains a lot because the 4227 is a slower burning powder than what gives maximum loads in the pistol. I have loaded compressed loads of WW296/H110 and used max loads of L'IL Gun and they don't make a difference in the rifle, but make the barrel hot very quickly. In the pistol, they make it much faster, but also a lot louder and kick harder. I realize that the .480 seems to be something that did not have enough of a following to make it stay in production, but it really is versatile. If I were going to be out in the brush for a while with only what I could carry on me and in the saddle bags of a hay burner, that combo is what I would take. Thanks to Mike Rintoul telling me to try the 4227 and cast bullets, I have found that cast bullets work very, very well in both the rifle and the pistol. Bottom line, when you are concerned with total weight and know your firearms well, a good combo is a fine idea.

[Buck Elliott]

Try working up some loads with H-4198 in the .480.. I use it in .45 Colt loads for rifle and pistol.
I am wondering if the .480 has enough case capacity to balance bore size and expansion ratio to make it worth while...?

It gives me 300 fps gain in the rifle, which is significant, I think...

[piller]

Try working up some loads with H-4198 in the .480.. I use it in .45 Colt loads for rifle and pistol.
I am wondering if the .480 has enough case capacity to balance bore size and expansion ratio to make it worth while...?

It gives me 300 fps gain in the rifle, which is significant, I think...

Thanks Buck, I'll try that.

[Buck Elliott]

Oh, i understand the attraction to combo ensembles --- but really, Buck -- are the conditions in the "rugged tall uncut" really that much different in the year 2012 that carrying a combo ensemble would afford real advantages over carrying a 45-70 with 6 in the tube, plus a 454 or 500 with 6 in the cylinder ? No -- that person out there in the wide open spaces likely has a frame pack or a vehicle to keep a few spares in today
If this was 1883 and a person was in a firefight with hostiles there's a legitimate need because keeping your ammo separated in your dump bag would be a pain. But today, i dont need a combo ensemble to go hunting HAji's in Iraq or Afghanistan, (M4 and M9 take completely different cartridges and that has been fine for decades) and neither do most people tromping around in the backcountry for whatever reason --

Like I said before, if you really don't "get" it, no explanation will suffice..

Out here, you can get as far from a road or any other 'civilization' as possible in the lower 48.. When we head into the real back-country, it isn't for an afternoon, or just a day, or even two.. We will probably be gone for at least a week or two, or as long as a month, or all Fall..

Vehicles and anything resembling even semi-permanent housing are left behind, and you have to be able to make best use of what you cana carry with you, either in your saddlebags or a pack pannier, and there are more important items than a dual supply of heavy ammunition..
If I get into a tight, with a wolf pack, it will be reassuring to know that whatever cartridges I have in my coat pocket or my belt, will fit and fire in both handgun and rifle..

High-intensity revolver cartridges do well enough, on their own, for most close-up situations, and when fired from a carbine or rifle, take on a whole new role, picking up enough extra velocity to change their functional parameters significantly.. Thus, a .454 becomes the exact ballistic equivalent of the .45-90 HV load, that was once available from Winchester -- a 300 or 325 grain bullet at 2100 fps. How much different is that from the performance of your '86...? The same versatility also applies to top loads in the .475 Linebaugh and Maximum, and definitely to the .500 S&W.. Even the .44 Mag will gain another 300+ fps in a carbine, as will my .45 Colt loads..

So Yes... The rifle/pistol dual combination still makes a ot of practical sense out here, and one cartridge/one load suffices nicely for both..

For whatever it may be worth, that is the best explanation I can give.. Whether you can grasp the concept and maybe understand a little of it, depends on you... I've said my piece....

[kaschi]

IIRC there was talk here at leverguns about trouble at Big Horn Armory and that they went under or something. Are they up and running again? That lever of theirs sure is nice and I wouldn't mind having one with a straight grip.